posted July 12, 2004 08:45 AM              

Placements such as Venus aspecting Saturn or Chiron can contribute to this dynamic, not because they are in themselves Oedipal, but because they reflect certain insecurities which can be compounded by the family triangle. Mars aspecting Saturn and Chiron may also reflect deep sexual insecurities which are heightened by family triangles and lead to feelings of defeat. These sets of aspects may compel a repetition of the failure later, or an attempt to heal the hurt by proving one’s sexual potency through triangles. There is no single astrological pattern which describes a propensity for triangles, but rather, many different combinations which can describe different images of and responses to the parents, and different ways of reacting to the natural and inevitable Oedipal phase of childhood. Venus-Saturn and Venus-Chiron do not "cause" a person to be drawn into triangles, but they describe a deep and innate awareness of human limits which, in childhood, when there is no real comprehension of what this could offer in a positive sense, can lead the child into feeling inadequate and damaged. The loss or alienation of a beloved parent will then be attributed to one’s own failings, and later in life one may feel one cannot "keep" a partner because a rival will always take him or her away.

Psychological astrology doesn't help you change anything, but it does help you accept the issues and find ways to cope.

posted July 12, 2004 11:08 AM            

I have Mars (6th house) Sextile Saturn (8th house) while Saturn (trines by degree my 4th house Sun). Chiron conjuncts my Moon and trines my Venus. Saturn also forms a slight inconjunct to my Venus.

In my life I tended to idealize my father, but got involved in relationships with men that had my mothers erratic emotions. My brother and I joked that my last husband was a female version of my mom - my bros wife also has some of my moms negative tendencies. (he has Chiron sextile Venus and he also shares the Mars sextile Saturn aspect that I have).

In my latest relationship, I find that Mr. Taurus has more of my father's qualities- the strength and even temper that I need so much in my life (actually Mr. Leo was close to it with the exception of his drinking problem). I had made a conscious decision to stop falling into the emotional quagmire of getting involved with personalities that mirrored my mother. In one way, as the counselor pointed out, I felt that I could "save" them, but in the end I was only disappointed with their lack of reciprocity.

Mr. Taurus: Well, he as a crazy mom too. He also has the Venus conjunct Saturn (2/3 house) and they both form a slight square to his Chiron (12th house). His ex wife was alot like his mother - emotional outbursts, violence..etc.. and he seemed to choose relationships that also had the erratic qualties he grew accostomed to as a kid.

We have had long talks about this. Mainly because, separately and weirdly enough during the same 2 year period, we had both started to question our habits in relationships. When we met, we had both come to discover more about our hidden motivations and drives. He found his path through meditation and taoism in Korea, I found mine through meditation, astrology and counseling over the past couple of years.

It doesn't mean things are perfect at all. We still have issues - things we call "old brain", meaning when we try to deal with an issue or problem using our old hurtful ways versus trying to deal with them using our "new brains".

Oh yeah, and I do realize that this article is more about the "triangle" between 3 people, but I looked at it also from the view of a third party exuding influence on the relationship itself- like the overbearing mother or father and finding 'like' types.

Natasha,

posted July 13, 2004 09:26 AM              

I do unconciously seduce though, and I have made a strong effort not to do that anymore. It's just easier to be charming, than to be clear and direct. I am careful of the way I dress, especially with married couples, but every once in a while I will pop out with something flirty. I make sure I am with friends who know me well when that happens.

I am not into flirty clothes, that show off my butt and breasts, but I do like flirty clothes with style. Since I attract like minded people, some of them have been flirty enough to get involved with a married man. When that happens I distance myself from that person since it's a negative. Married men are like an itch some women have to scratch but it just spreads like poison ivy.

It makes you feel like, does anyone know how I feel, and so you have to spread the info to other people constantly. Of course you just want to know when it stops. The best thing a friend can do is say Stop! and usually that works.

If I wanted to flirt with a man I would say:
There is such a stigma on not having a man these days it's sad, twp girls ought to just get one good one and share. Wink, Wink.

Natasha
Taurus

posted July 13, 2004 09:32 AM              

Anyone else with planets in the 4th or 10th with comments? Do you feel that the 10th house represents your Father and how do you act like your father on a daily basis?

I have Jupiter, Uranus and Pluto in the 10th, and many of my desires are father-like, to be clear, an direct and honest, and good in business (that doesn't mean I am always right or know all the answers). The better I am at this, the more flirty my Venus in the 4th can be and still feel okay about it.

Does this make sense?

Natasha

posted July 13, 2004 11:37 AM              

Only other 10th House placement is my South Node in Aqua, and my 10th House is ruled by Uranus. My Uranus is in the 4th.

My dad has always been distant emotionally, and unpredictable (many time undependable) as a father.

posted July 13, 2004 01:00 PM            

My Sun (Sag) and Mercury (Capricorn) are both located in my 4th house (and I have a 7th house Moon in Aries).

I find that my father represents my 4th house along with my Sag Sun. He was the one that was more nurturing to me as a child. My dad worked graveyard shift with the police department when I was born, so for the first 2 years he spent most days with me while my mom was working. He would sleep when she came home in the afternoons.

I always felt like my dad loved having children and genuiunely liked me, whereas it felt like mom tolerated me. My relationship with my dad hasn't always been the best -there was a time when my evil Virgo Step-monster came into the picture and did everything she could to sever the relationship between my dad and us kids. Luckily, it didn't work - but my brother has more bitter feelings about it than I do.

Speaking of him - he has a Pisces rising- so his 4th house contains mostly Cancer while his 10th house contains mostly Capricorn - his Sun is also in the 10th house. He has Saturn in Cancer in the 4th house.

Last night we had a long discussion about mom and our relationships. I, being the typical Sag, had always glossed over the bad parts and concentrated on the good parts regarding my family. He said it plainly - like only a Mercury in Sag / Moon in Scorp can. 'Shawnee, the problem with us is, we don't like mom's personality. We love her and accept her, but we would never choose to be friends with her in real life'. I said "Roman, I would choose to be your friend if I didn't know you" He said "me too, I've never had any problems understanding you or getting along with you". In our "family" synastry chart, my brother and I have a very great relationship - and a grand trine. We compliment each other well- which was evident as kids because we were best buddies. LOL

Natasha,

I would say that I do act like my dad - but that my 4th house represents him. In our synastry chart, his Sun, Mercury and Venus all fall in my 4th house. Like him, I also have the Sun Conjunct Venus- where as my bro and mom have venus in air signs, not conjuncting their suns. But I do have a fair number of stressful aspects between both parents charts as does my brother.

posted July 13, 2004 01:52 PM              

quote:

---

Anyone else with planets in the 4th or 10th with comments? Do you feel that the 10th house represents your Father and how do you act like your father on a daily basis?

---

I've been pondering about it, but I end up into loop. Which parent, which house?? My 10th hs is empty. The ruler is Mercury and this is in the 4th conj IC. Sun is also in the 4th, but not conj. with Mercury/IC.

Of family dynamics.

I'm Capricorn, Virgo Moon (conj. Pluto), IC in Sag
Dad is Sag with Capricorn Moon.
Mum is Aqua/Pices cusp child (she'd say Aqua), Scorpio Moon
Brother is Taurus with Scorpio Moon

"You are just like Mum. So passionate about everyhing, so proud and you same high expectations of people," said Dad once. I suppose he was right.

Dad and I both have Mars in Scorpio exactly in conj Mum's Scorpio Moon. Brother has his Moon in earlier degrees.

All together, we are very tight bunch, really close and open with each other. And emotions can run high.

Mum and I were always good and close friends, more like sisters. We have gotten along very well since I was a kid. Since I remember myself. Mum has this majestic Leo rising and she simply fills any room she enters. As a beacon in the dark night, she a best thing, but in everyday life it meant that I had to step back to figure out what *I* want, feel, think. (Moon in 12th). I was constantly encouraged to express myself, but I sometimes had difficulties figuring out WHAT I want express. At some point of time it meant some emotional upheavals.

Dad influenced me in much more quiet ways, he was where he was most needed. And it was years later when I spoke with my friends of my childhood hobbies, sports, etc, I started to understand how much he did for me actually.