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Author
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Topic: Chart Aspects and Difficult Relationship With Father
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dorkus_malorkus
unregistered
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posted July 25, 2004 09:10 PM
 
Hi there, me again. I was wondering if anyone could look at a synestry/composite (dunno which would be appropriate in this case) chart of my father and I, or look at our charts individually, and find any difficult aspects, and things like that which would cause friction in our relationship. He is actually my stepdad, and I am currently staying with him until I get the money to move out. We are two very different people, and clash often, this has happened in my 10+ years in knowing him. The main thing is his temper. I do not know how to handle all the yelling and such, a lot of times I feel I just want to run away, because by nature I am an extremely mellow person (and sensitive.) When we go some place, I become really embarressed, because he will start yelling at people for the stupidest things, and I just feel like crying. People never know how to handle him (they are constantly shutting him out of their lives, although he doesn't get the message.) I guess a lot of it would be his job; he never sleeps just so we can have enough money to live comfortably. Don't get me wrong, I love him, but at times, I become so frustrated and don't know how to handle things. In the past there have been cases of abuse, chiefly verbal, but I do remember one or two instances of physical. One thing that causes friction, if I may speculate, is his Leo moon. I often find I have bouts with people with any major planets in Leo. Any input would be greatly appreciated, and I thank you all in advance. I would do this myself, but I do not know a whole lot about chart reading yet. Mine:
Sept. 6, 1986 San Antonio, TX 7:04am His:
August 30, 1940 Los Angeles, CA 7:15pm IP: Logged |
sthenri
unregistered
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posted July 25, 2004 11:18 PM
Have you asked him not to embarass you like that in front of others? If so what did he say? Leo moons have pride that can come off as arrogant, but usually they can come down.If that's not the case then I wish you luck on moving out, but you may still want a relationship with him afterwards. I know that you are a sensitive soul, but you need to handle him as if he is the one who ought to be embarassed not you. Make it known you are not happy, anyway you can. It takes time to learn how to express yourself around someone, but try in some way to get his attention when he is in public, and let him know in advance you don't want your mood spoiled. Natasha
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dorkus_malorkus
unregistered
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posted July 25, 2004 11:38 PM
Well, I had a talk with him earlier today. I had said "Please, don't get angry with anyone today, alright?" And he had remarked about not being able to help it. He yelled at this guy at the video store today, and afterwards, I had confronted him about it. He had said something along the lines of, "You don't have to go defending everyone all the time. Maybe if people wouldn't be so stupid I wouldn't have to yell." Blah blah blah he went on about that for sometime even after I had told him the guy was just trying to do his job, and that he doesn't make the rules.As a matter of fact he did say "I'm the one who should be embarressed, but I'm not, damn people never know what they are talking about." I mean when my dad goes off, I swear I have seen people getting close to calling the authorities; it borders on harrassment. And it will be over something like not getting a senior discount at a restaurant, he acts like it's the waiter's fault and has to ruin evreyone's day. The bottom line with my dad is that nothing is EVER his fault, he is always right. I do love him, but he is too hard for me to handle sometimes. And I have been increasingly worried about his health lately, he never gets sleep and has had seizures and one or two strokes.
I would be just as happy if he wouldn't work so hard and we had to scrape by. I have been used to that since I was born, I have lived in temp shelters with my mother, that's just the way life is sometimes. But I just don't know how to get through to him. With every conversation, I risk a brutal verbal bout which often ends up with me crying and on the verge of suicide. I just want things to be ok, and to get along with people, but it's hard for me. IP: Logged |
proxieme
unregistered
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posted July 25, 2004 11:45 PM
Welcome to the Sun Square Saturn Club.*shakes hand* I have a Sun/Neptune/Saturn t-square - it reflects my father's alchoholism and subsequent verbal abusiveness pretty well. Your aspects to the Sun include:
Sun Conjunct Ascendant
Sun Conjunct Mercury
Sun Opposition Jupiter
Sun Square Midheaven
Sun Square Uranus
Sun Square Saturn
Sun Trine Mars With Sun/MC/Jupiter and Sun/Uranus/Jupiter t-squares thrown in for good measure.
I have no idea what that'd mean, but I'm willing to bet that two seperate t-squares involving your Sun and Jupiter is indicative of something.
Perhaps unpredictable, bombastic threats to your image? But, again, no idea. Sun Sq. Saturn's fun.
As I said before, I have that.
I also have Liz Greene's book on Saturn.
She writes
The Sun-Saturn person is often more acutely aware of responsibility than other people, perhaps more so than is healthy for his self-expression. But it is often the case with him that he has never really had the chance to be a child, and so he has never learned that naive trust in life's bounty which permits the relaxation of effort. (...)
Early environmental conditions are often difficult with these contacts, even the harmonious aspects. The relationship with the father is immediately implicated, and there is a suggestionthat some disappointment is experienced through him. There is often outright coldness or rejection from the father or the emphasis on is on duty, form, and material values. Sometimes the father is loving and kind but weak and is a disappointment because he cannot assume the strong and protective role necessary for the child's psychological balance. (...) The meaning is generally the same: the male half of the psyche, the ego or conscious identity, must be created fresh by the individual because he cannot inherit or acquire his identity through his own father. (...)
It is a particularly significant contact for women because a woman's relationship with men and with the masculine half of her own psyche is affected by the diappointment and failure of her relationship with her father. (...) Handled with insight and care, Sun-Saturn aspects on the chart of a woman are suggestive of an opportunity to explore the realm of conscious initiative and creative endeavor, permitting a wholeness which is usually not developed in a woman's psyche. (Yes, this was written in '76.) (...) The person with a strong Sun-Saturn contact often experiences a kind of guilt if he is too happy or if he relaxes too much. (...) IP: Logged |
dorkus_malorkus
unregistered
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posted July 25, 2004 11:56 PM
Thanks for typing all that Prox  That desciption is right on, it's freaky. Damn, I guess I have a lot of squares, man that's not a cool deal lol. Well, yay, at least I am in a club now! But I believe Groucho Marx said, "Any club that has me for a member, I wouldn't wan't to be a part of!"That being said, I am fairly sure our Ascs. are opposed. Him (Virgo sun/Pisces asc/Leo Moon.) Me (Virgo sun/Virgo asc/Libra moon.) Umm yeah, these are just basic things I can see in our charts...... IP: Logged |
proxieme
unregistered
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posted July 26, 2004 12:06 AM
Bah, don't let harsh aspects get ya down -
they may be a bit scratchy, but they're pure energy just waiting to be worked with.Think of it like this:
"Benign" aspects are kind of like a nice, gelded pony - it'll get you where you're going with little to no work, but there's not much umph there.
"Difficult" aspects are like a stallion - difficult to control and requiring constant vigilance, but once you learn to work with them they'll take you further than any other. Heck, lookit my Love's Pluto aspects:
Saturn Conjunct Pluto
Moon Opposition Pluto
Sun Square Pluto
Venus Trine Pluto
Mars Trine Pluto
Neptune Sextile Pluto
Pluto Sextile Midheaven
(Yes, they're mostly soft, but any aspect to Pluto's an interesting one to deal with...)
He's got that (and Moon/Sun/Pluto and Moon/Sun/Saturn t-squares thrown in for good measure), but he's the best person I know.
Intense, granted, but a wonderful, warm, and loving man. IP: Logged |
dorkus_malorkus
unregistered
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posted July 26, 2004 01:51 AM
I see what you are saying. And it makes a lot of sense. But why do some people just never get along no matter how hard they try? You talked about Pluto aspects, which I didn't realize the importance of until now. What can be said about my Venus conjunct Pluto? Is it important? IP: Logged |
26taurus
unregistered
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posted July 26, 2004 02:36 AM
Just wanted to add I am also a member of the "Sun square Saturn club". And I was abandoned by my alcoholic father. My brother has this aspect too. When ever this aspect is present it show difficulties with - through the father. (almost always)IP: Logged |
proxieme
unregistered
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posted July 26, 2004 06:48 AM
I don't know the answer re: not being able to get along with some people no matter what.
If I did, I'd bottle it and sell it.
Perhaps there's weird karmic things being worked out (that is, ya'll didn't have the "healthiest relationship" in some past life bout).
Perhaps hard aspects between people are that much more difficult to work out because of lack of shared perspective, or maybe ya'll's composite chart is hosed (I didn't look at those as I'm even worse at interpreting them than I am at natals).
He just may be an abrasive, little-black-cloud type of guy who few can stand to be in the same room with, let alone work out a relationship with.
Maybe it's all of the above.Heaven knows there was no love loss between my 1st step-mom and myself and I know of no way I could've made that better in this lifetime - though I'm sure we'll get the chance to try again 
She was, by the way, a Leo Sun.
I've noticed that that's an energy I either get along with famously or want to pummel into a bloody pile. As with you, there's little in-between with me on that one.
(My second step-mom has the same birthday as me and the same Moon/Sun combo as my Mom, and she's wonderful and beautiful and perfect.
Not that I'm partisan or anything.) re: Venus conj. Pluto:
I'm kinda of the opinion that no Pluto aspect's not important; but, then, I do have a Pluto's that's the only cardinal sign in my whole natal chart and is placed in the house ruling my Sun's sign (go-go 12th House) with it's only non-generational aspect being a minor one to my Sun.
I have this odd affinity for it, so I may be a bit biased.
Here's what astro.com's "AstroClick Portrait" has to say about your deal, though: Venus Conjunct Pluto You need to be loved very much, but you also need to love others. The attachments you form are very strong, because you don't take relationships casually. On one hand, this can make your life very rich, as long as the people you are attracted to are equally intense emotionally and are good in other ways as well. But with this aspect you may be attracted to people who are not very good for you or who do not have your best interests in mind. This is particularly so if you do not have much self-confidence or self-esteem. You should be on the watch for jealousy and possessiveness in relationships, either in yourself or in your friends. If you are the possessive and jealous one, you have to learn that your friend may have other friends without lessening the relationship between you. You also must learn to give those you love the same freedom that you want for yourself. The most important factor signified by this aspect is that you hope to transform the conditions of your life through relationships. Thus you feel that every strong emotional attachment is very important for your future. Just remember that you must pick only the best people as partners in these relationships.  P.S. I just noticed that you have a Sun/Midheaven/Saturn t-square, too. IP: Logged |
proxieme
unregistered
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posted July 26, 2004 06:58 AM
26t - Yeah, my sis has a Sun/Saturn aspect as well, though my brother doesn't (...because he was "the boy"...?).
He does, however, have hard aspects between the Sun and MC and the Sun and Jupiter, as does DM...interesting.
Dunno what that means, but interesting nonetheless.Oddly enough, my Dad (who's father was an abusive alchoholic who abandoned him, his Mom, and his 2 brothers) doesn't have any Sun/Saturn aspects.
He does have a Moon/Saturn Square, though, as well as a generally busy Moon
(Moon in Cancer
Moon Conjunct Uranus
Moon Square Neptune
Moon Square Saturn
Moon Square Mercury
Moon Sextile Ascendant)
and pretty full 10th House
(Moon in the Tenth House
Jupiter in the Tenth House
Uranus in the Tenth House).
But I guess being raised by your Mom and Grandma has it's own issues. IP: Logged |
Archer
unregistered
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posted July 26, 2004 07:59 AM
i guess u should look for planets and sign in the 10th house.------------------
Neerav IP: Logged |
sthenri
unregistered
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posted July 26, 2004 08:52 AM
DK, with that Leo in him, you are right he will never apologize. But whether he is right or wrong has nothing to do with embarassing you in public, maybe if you refused to go with him for a while, he would manage himself? Or you could get up and insist on waiting outside.I have the opposite problem, my parents were very passive, and never confronted anything. It drove me equally crazy since we eventually had to fight. I have Saturn sextile Sun, almost conjunct in Taurus, and Sun trine Uranus. I like talking about problems, but my mother and father both had/have Moon in Pisces and Mars in Capricorn. They didn't budge on an issue. If my mother started an argument with a store clerk, she would just stand still until she was noticed. It was like talking to a rock. Then she would cry and scream and throw a tantrum and refuse to stop. So everyone has a different way of being a pain when they want to. The real issue is battling for control, some parents feel very out of control and need to push others around to feel good about themselves. It's too bad your father has been through so much, but that doesn't mean he has to push you around. By putting you in your place, refusing to listen, he is pushing you too. The only way to handle that is to leave, to be honest. You can visit but it sounds like the day to day interaction is blinded him to how he is treating you. Pride can do that to people. Luckily my my mother and I do get along, at a distance. She is very belligerent about the fact that she is never wrong either. Her Scorpio Sun in the 6th house doesn't help her, but she has mellowed out living by herself. I hope you can move out on your own soon, Take Care,
Natasha
Taurus IP: Logged |
dorkus_malorkus
unregistered
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posted July 26, 2004 08:49 PM
Well Natasha, maybe we are not so different Haha, we actually had a few more episodes today. This time was justified though. We were at the bank and the banker was hassling me, about proof of address after I had given her my photo id. But no, that wasn't enough for her. I had to give her my birth certificate, and we had to dig a bunch of mail out of the car, and my dad had to show his license. Like were thieves or something. And after all of that, she tells me I can't open a checking account with my dad co-signing, because I am not 18 (a month shy). Well I don't think I will be doing business with this certain bank *cough US Bank cough* instead I will go back to Bank of America, where they will readily give me my account. I must admit it takes a lot to make me angry, but this woman was impossible. Anyone have any experiences with people like that, and getting lost in technicalities and what not? IP: Logged |
Tuesday
unregistered
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posted July 27, 2004 04:17 PM
I won't get into my father issues, but although I do not have any Sun-Saturn contacts, I do have my Sun opposed Uranus in my chart and I believe that is the main indicator of strife (concerning him) in my chart. I also have Mercury opposed Uranus and have had serious problems with my half-brother (he is out of my life now, thankfully).IP: Logged | |
Lindaland
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