posted October 24, 2004 01:25 PM              

There is no set thing. Life is in a constant state of flux, everything is changing all the time. Mysteriously.

For the most part, one could make the analogy of the egg & the sperm. A woman produces only one egg (usually) per month, sperm is usually times infinity. If you think about how that affects each physiologically, you'll understand why it's more difficult for a woman to be a "lova". Sometimes she'll even start out headstrong and independent, has a fling, and then falls in love without wanting to.

It's important to be true to yourself, forgiving yourself for not getting it right immediately is the most difficult thing of all.

Libra is supposed to be the predominant Sun Sign, according to a non-scientific thread we had here recently. I'm a Libra, but it doesn't have everything to do with the so-called "detachment". It also has to do with our desire to excel in the ART of love. And for that, you need some practice and some willing participants.

It can be done, just not for everyone - yet EVERYONE takes a chance no matter what. Someone might brag about being able to be a "lova", but maybe they have issues with intimacy, etc. So one never knows. Just know yourself and understand your intentions. In this way, you can at least attempt to avoid hurting anyone or yourself.

It's OK to try and then realize it's not for you. Forgive yourself, life is a learning process.

Or try the next best thing - but I must warn you, your emotions will still be involved to an extent :::

posted October 24, 2004 01:52 PM            

By that I mean, say a woman is with a man that completes here in several ways, but is lacking either physically, emotionally or intellectually?

Is it cheating for a woman to think her man is not intelligent enough so she saves all of her intellectual conversations for when she goes to work and sees the hot smart guy? LOL

I don't think I could take a sexual lover just for fulfillment, but I would be inclined to really think about straying if I was with someone that wasn't sexual. Been there done that! I would most likely slip out of the relationship before I would cheat.

posted October 24, 2004 02:11 PM              

yeah....like astro junkie says...practice makes perfect....

posted October 24, 2004 02:17 PM              

If I could be a man for just one day...
That kind of thing, like daydreaming, or cotton candy. I would try it out in a committed relationship, play roles, can't hurt.

But being with a man for one day is a lot like having paradise for one day, it's over and done, and not much of a memory, that's why even men save scores, compare notes, idealize their conquests, talk and talk it over.

The only difference is the kind of action each get. I am okay with the kind of "action" I get right now. I don't think I want to try a reversal.

When I think of all the things I've seen, and done, and I know it's just beginning, I just can't help seeing a smile and thinking ....."I Love You"...I would say that just to see a smile, even for five minutes.

I love to Say I Love You,
and have it received,
even better when it's returned

No orgasm can top that

And when I get one of those smiles!:>

posted October 24, 2004 04:26 PM            

But on another note, here's an excerpt from a short story entitled Lust that I also found interesting:

posted October 24, 2004 05:40 PM              

So I relate to what you are saying, but right now I am alone having been stood up for a coffee date with someone else, so I want to bawl my eyes out not ball.

LIfe is like that up and down.

SEX is about death, about intimacy, when we are intimate a little part of our ego dies. We are embarassed to feel, if we become afraid of closeness, it's really a fear of death.

Sharing with another is about life, being full of it, and sharing life with someone else. If we feel ashamed of our life then intimacy is scary, there's nothing to share but bitterness and hate.

Some people never learn to bond over intimacy, they learn to bond over hate or other passions.

Good luck, I hope you do match to someone that way, I haven't really bonded to many intimately, but I am always re-trying things differently.
I like the wine and dine part, I still think it's sensual not sex to eat food off your lover.

posted October 24, 2004 07:20 PM            

Funny how something so intimate and fun at one time can leave you feeling such shame after.

Personally, I prefer what Natasha is speaking of regarding love and intimacy.

But it is such a delicate balance and we are such fragile creatures. Someone neglecting to give us that morning kiss or call us when they are going to be late can tarnish those intimate feelings. Being close, being vulnerable, these are all things that are so hard to show and sex, if just physical can actually cause those emotions to run and hide.

To be only physical I would think that one would have to have an agreement with their partner, but invariably someone would start to feel- even if it is shame or resentment. It would still happen.

posted October 24, 2004 08:26 PM              

You meet someone, you find each other attractive, you have some things in common, you're comfortable with each other - good feelings and revelations about one another can go on for months. For whatever reason, it feels right so you become lovers.

This is before you meet your future mother-in-law, and as your lives become more merged and more complicated, that beautiful simple love just dies ...

Then there are the MINORITY who do not find themselves somehow tainted in the romance department, who get the real thing, and it lasts. That forever love every single one of us wants deep down. But you cannot even plan it, or how you are going to feel. Such a small minority.

Damnn it all!

posted October 25, 2004 12:17 AM              

Sort of like a numbing effect, more hurtful experiences, can be numbing, in a good or bad way, so detachment can be good or bad in any situation. With so much to practice, it boggles the mind, how to do this with too many partners.
I used to think one partner could never be both detached and emotional, but that's shortsighted.

Humans are so adaptable, they can do anything eventually, so the best lovers are ones who are willing to try anything even at the risk of getting hurt. They have learned that past the numbness, there is at least a 60% chance of getting better at being close. And every year the chances get better. Intimacy is like having an artificial leg, at first it's hard to get used to, then it starts to function and eventually you get used to it.

Nobody is totally comfortable with total lust, or total intimacy at first, eventually we get a style of loving that includes the physical, but I think that style has to come frome experimentation, experience.

People were meant to get experienced,

Well, that's my Sag Mars talking,
My Mars wants to jump right in, and then it looks around and says, wait a minute I did this already I'll watch what others do. I am usually happier that way then experiencing everything myself again. If I try too much I feel bitter. There's no way a Moon in the 8th can lighten up in regards to relationships.

There have been times when I was really interested in casual sex and I've backed out quickly, just because I changed my mind. I go with my instincts in everything. I remember not feeling good anymore, and I would just stop, but I did whatever I felt comfortable with, which is the most important issue to me. Many arguments!

posted October 25, 2004 03:01 AM              

I definitely can do the "taking a lova" thing but eventually the guilt i feel over it gets the best of me and it ends up turning into a relationship- maybe to make myself okay about it or my inability to let the guy know that i am "using" him. THen of course it snowballs and i am in a relationship that i never really wanted and go thru the whole painful breakup thing.

I find that although i am capable of the physical expression of intimacy i can't seem to share the emotional side of it with anyone and i really want to but something always hold me back. Maybe it's the whole Saturn in Eigth (Taurus) or my Jupiter in Scorpio (Jupiter being unaspected) I keep evertyhing pretty locked in tight. I think subconsciously i know that if the physical side of the relationship is working, men won't question you and try to dig deeper. Also if you are always listeining no one stops to think ... hey wait you haven't shared anything until later and by then it's all too late.

I am trying but man this whole sharing thing is soooo hard and am too tired to deny my crap right now. It's funny how we sabatoge ourselves...so sad too

if you ask

posted October 25, 2004 08:31 AM              

Those are eerily true!

I loved it ...

Ladya -

Me for one appreciates your sharing. The way you worded things really made me realize, I've also experienced the same thing. I don't have the same placements, but maybe my Mercury, Mars & Neptune in Scorpio does basically the same thing. And my Sun in Libra in the 5th sort of goes in for the fun, the companionship, but when it comes to my expressive Moon in the 3rd, I've learned not to overwhelm my partner with my gushy side.

The result is a lopsided attempt to build trust and intimacy, but I've come a long way. I've also realized it's not too difficult for others to pick up on my feelings in the first place, so no need to push any issues unless it's to defend my ground.

posted October 25, 2004 09:00 AM            

1. Have a serious relationship - that means your lova would be on the side
2. Know that your lova is short term and keep telling yourself that every day.
3. Tell your lova he/she is short term and there is no love intended.
4. It would be great if your lova had a serious relationship as well.
5. Don't talk to your lova, apart from dirty in bed.
6. Don't go on long romantic dates with your lova. Actually don't do anything you consider romanic with your lova - after all you're with him/her just for the sex, right?

posted October 25, 2004 09:09 AM              

Thank you for sharing. I also have Taurus Saturn in the 8th and what you say certainly resonates with my experiences. I wish I'd know what to *do* about it, though.

posted October 25, 2004 04:04 PM            

I had written something in response to this last night, but my computer went nuts and logged me off (UGH) I hate this town!!!

Allowing yourself to be vulnerable is something no one wants to let themselves get hurt. I do keep things inside, but that is because my own emotions can scare me...

posted October 25, 2004 05:46 PM              

How apropos!

I guess I didnt know that my non-relationship was actually a "lova" thing!

Its really not so bad...we were emotionally close, had great sex (GREAT) were best friends...blah blah blah...

I have babbled about it here before.

But no commitment. It was never far from my mind that he could be (and was, at times) sleeping with others. That any day, he might not come back, or I might not.

I have lived apart from him...many many miles...for 2 years now.

It just so happens that during my break between seasons, I have 6 weeks of time to kill and I have been staying with him.

I am trying to figure out a way to gracefully bow out of his life...without compromising myself, nor abusing his ego.

I still love him....in a basic way. but he was just a "lova" and thats all it should have been.

Did i feel dead inside, with him? A lack of intimacy?

no, not at all. Just an awareness that even tho it could have been forever, doesnt mean its meant to be. We were great together, but seasons change..

Ack, here comes the nostalgia wagon...

Later all!!