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Author Topic:   Mr Aqua, You're History
ariestiger
unregistered
posted October 25, 2004 08:14 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'd like to think the Mr Aqua saga was getting better - we go through occasional good patches - but they seem to be isolated days.
I am not looking for sympathy here, I'm just venting! I don't want to be perpetually moaning here - I have been trying to see the best in our situation for quite some time - but sometimes the occasion calls for it.
Outwardly, it seems as if he is a good husband to me, in that he cooks and shops, which I am grateful for not having to do. There are a few things, though, that I just can't cope with any more.
One is his negativity. He just never lets up moaning at me, usually because, for example, I haven't put the butter back in the fridge in the right way. He had a fit once because I wasn't drying up the crockery in the right way - hit the roof, and I, of all people, had to say to him, "f***ing relax, man!" Then if we're out doing some gardening work, he'll tell me how to put leaves on top of a bonfire in the "right" way - as if I, at 30 years old, couldn't figure that out!!!
Then, everything I do is always rubbish. Anything I do that is creative, no matter what it is. I was doing some work today for an exhibition later on this week and he came in and said, "oh, are you doing your sh*t again? Tell me when you earn some money from it, won't you?" He has always rubbished any attempt I have made to make money, he rubbishes the teaching I do, which is hard work but which I love. Immediately I take any sort of job on, it's "What do you have to go and do THAT for??"
He never ceases to remind me that I'm too skinny, that my chest is too small, and that I should get a breast enlargement. He also runs me down in front of other people, bringing up issues to do with my family (not HIS) that I would not choose to repeat in front of them, and insinuating that I am things I am not - and what's worse, they end up believing everything he says. It's so embarrassing. Yeah, most of the time I do tell him where to stick it, but I really don't feel I should have to do that, that someone should aggravate me to the point where I should have to say that on a regular basis. He would try the patience of a saint!

He is dissatisfied with his own job, so I can understand that he is probably very jealous that I enjoy what I do so much, and that he, with a Bachelor's and Master's in history and a law course under his belt, has ended up doing odd gardening jobs for 10 years. Everyone says that he could do better, but it seems that only I recognize that he suffers from chronic passive aggression. I discussed it in a thread earlier in the year and I think the general conclusion was that this was partly due to Saturn in his 4th (singleton in Aries).
His mother has perhaps had the greatest influence on his PA traits. His family scenario was practically the prototype one. His parents divorced when he was 8, but he was told "very calmly" about it as no-one wanted to be seen to be making much "fuss". So, he didn't make much fuss either. Now, I find that really weird, as in the same situation I would have been most upset. His mother and father get on okay enough now, she even goes round in a threesome with him and his second wife, who isn't the least bit jealous. She never remarried or had another boyfriend, except for a brief fling with someone else's husband. My husband lived with her up until he was 32, they were practically like man and wife - until I came along. She is a Cancer - completely different to me. I think I was the first person to stand up to my husband and not give in to his every whim (therefore, I'm nasty).
Neither of my husband's parents are direct at all, they refuse to confront issues head-on, they never say a direct "Yes, I can" or "No, I can't". I can see where he gets it from. Neither of them has ever been successful at anything.
My husband is also curiously self-defeating, he can be full of bonhomie to people and then interject a really thinly veiled spiteful or slightly offhand little jibe at them. People then don't know what to think, they don't know where he's coming from, they get confused, having thought all along that he was this really nice guy. He calls it subversive, and thinks it's funny. I call it self-defeating, because people then see him as untrustworthy.
He is waiting for a job offer at the moment which is hanging in the balance and which, granted, he has worked quite hard to get. I would like to think that in some way it could change things - it would definetely ease our financial situation - but my alarm bells started ringing when he came back from work experience there and said that he had been shown the paperwork for a contentious issue, and he reckoned he didn't want to deal with those sorts of issues. Now I ask you, as a lawyer, how can you NOT be expected to deal with those sorts of issues, it's what you're paid for, surely? "Uh-oh," I thought, "I can't see him getting promoted".
To be quite honest, I've had enough. Of the passive aggression, the creating arguments out of nothing, the negativity, the playing computer games all day and all night when he can't be bothered to work, the not having had a holiday together for 6 years - ever since our honeymoon. I am having counselling, which helps me to deal with things, but without him being there as well (he refused to go) there can't be any progress made in our relationship. I'm really tired of it.
Basically, what I want is someone I can have FUN with - who doesn't have hang-ups about their self-confidence, who doesn't procrastinate endlessly, who has similar interests. I just want to be able to relax and be myself, be with someone who makes me feel GOOD (well, being an Aries, I feel pretty good about myself anyway - but - you know what I mean)!
Sorry, guys, but I had to vent, the comment he made today was too much and hit a nerve!

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Gemini Nymph
unregistered
posted October 25, 2004 09:28 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sorry to hear this. I haven't been following this in other threads, but this sounds pretty miserible. He sounds like he's suffering from depression - the passive-aggressiveness, the negativity, the self-sabotaging, the evasiveness, the nitpicking over insignificant things - all symptoms of someone who's depressed and in denial about it. If he's in denial, you and anyone else can't help him. Not exactly what you sign up for, I'm sure.

It also sounds like he's ADD, or has a similar problem. It is not at all uncommon for people with ADD or similar conditions that are undiagnosed to be suffering concurrently with depression. What stands out to me in what you are saying, that makes me think this is from what you describe he sounds like his has Executive Function Disorder (or Executive Dysfunction), an often overlooked but quite debilitating frontal lobe disturbence that causes a number a problems that affects one's ability to live a normal, productive life. It is found in people with ADD, autism, dyslexia, OCD and other neurological conditions (I have it, as it's part of my Asperger's which is a form of autism). EFD can also occur in people who have had serious head trauma at any point int heir life. There's no cure for this - you have to learn to live with it. Most people don't know this is what is wrong with them, and they suffer for years without help, blaming themsleves or wallowing in denial and self-pity and often causing others to suffer with them.

Here's link to a good synopsis of what is EFD and its symptoms (scroll down to the very bottom and check out that longer list, as it's quite descriptive): http://mywebpages.comcast.net/kskkight/EFD.htm

My advice is if this sounds like Mr Aqua, then perhaps you can show him this information and see what he thinks of it. If he is receptive, try to encourage him to see a counselor or psychologist (not a psychiatrist) about being evaluated for conditions relating to EFD. Granted this won't change things overnight, but it might help get him started in the right direction. Good luck!

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pixelpixie
Newflake

Posts: 8
From: ON Canada
Registered: Apr 2009

posted October 26, 2004 12:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for pixelpixie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I remember your story.
I wouldn't blame you at all for leaving, and taking back your-self... no apologies.
Your spouse should champion you.. and point out when you mess up.. not when you succeed, as long as it is your version of succss, and it makes you happy.
Lotsa' men cook and get groceries. Some even prompt lotsa' fun in the kitchen when you make naked midnight spaghetti... against which surface does one test the pasta's done-ness, being the only issue.
You are already seeking.. consciously or not.. it is definately time to cut these rotting strings.

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astro junkie
unregistered
posted October 26, 2004 02:32 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oh my God!

For this Venus in Virgo - yup, you guessed it - DEALBREAKER!

And the reason I wouldn't hang in there and try to be of loving help is because I'm not qualified. So it's like trying to save a drowning person when you cannot swim.

Even if I WERE qualified, you are too close to be objective.

Next time he tries to tell you how to do things perfectly, tell him he has two options. You will stop trying to do it, so it doesn't get done at all, or he does it HIS way. But I think you've taken enough of an emotional beating here.

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LeylaLeFay
unregistered
posted October 26, 2004 04:46 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
>playing computer games all day and all night when he can't be bothered to work

He's not EFD, he's just lazy and does't want a real job. That's why he constantly belittles your work.

It's a basic mind game, observe:

"Honey, why don't you turn off that game and go get a worthwhile career?"
"Oh? And I suppose you think that crap you do is a real career?"

See? He's insulting your money making efforts before you can insult his lack-of-effort. This is his insurance in case one day you wake up and realize he's not pulling his weight.


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ariestiger
unregistered
posted October 26, 2004 02:09 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
GeminiNymph - I can understand what you say about depression. Actually, he confided to me that he was totally depressed once, saying he felt like dung. I suggested counselling to him, but he said, "Counselling? God, no! They'd cart me away!"
He is also very intelligent, but in many cases lacks the imagination/application to make good use of it. I think this is the result of his upbringing, unfortunately his parents are neither intelligent or creative, and I think he has been rather thwarted in that respect. I can sense a lot of unexpressed anger and impatience towards his parents, particularly his father, who was a rather ineffectual man and didn't rate achievement much either. However - he can't rage at them, it's just not "done" in their circles. We visited them over the weekend and most of their conversation centres around: do you see that house is for sale? who's selling it, and for how much? did you see So-and-So's painted his fence green? what's the weather going to be like today, I wonder? - and so on, and so forth. Where do THEY figure in their conversation? - their emotions, their hobbies, their interests? (Do they have any???)It's scary, really scary, that kind of negation of oneself. And his mother never disagrees with anyone - except behind their backs. It is really hard to know what she thinks.
Pixelpixie - THAT'S an idea. Midnight spaghetti...! I should like to try that!
AJ - Loved your smilies. They made me laugh! LOL.
Leyla - Yeah, I know, he IS lazy. He didn't have any sort of job before he was 24, having spent the previous years studying. He doesn't want to do anything - get a job, run his own business, do anything in the community. He's shortchanging himself, but he can't see this. He can't see the potential rewards in store, and in any case they would not be worth working towards either, because it would mean he had to get off his butt.

What I would say to all young women desperate to get married would be:
1)If he lives with his mother - DON'T. Mama will always be more important than you. If he spent on his mother, took her places before you were married, when you both have your own place, he will NOT do the same for you. (He will still continue to do it for his mother, though.)If you move in with them after you are married, Mama will always come with you, everywhere you go. And you can't not see Mama on Christmas Day, not even if you arrange to see her on Boxing Day instead, as she might be alone and "upset", even though she has relatives nearby who she sees on a regular basis.
2) If he makes derogatory comments about ANY part of your body whilst you are dating, don't even go there. It won't stop once you're married, and you will continually wonder what's wrong with you.

I don't want to sound proscriptive and prevent people from living their lives - but, don't say I didn't warn you!

LOL
AriesTiger

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Lynx
Newflake

Posts: 0
From:
Registered: Aug 2009

posted October 27, 2004 01:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lynx     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wow. Aquarians usually go for friends and consider their mates friends. He doesn't seem to be treating you like a friend at all. Yeah, I think you should leave him alone to stew in his own juices.

I'm fascinated to know what else is in his chart. I'd never be involved with someone I didn't admire. My romantic interest is actually an Aries and I think he's one of the most wonderful people I've ever met. I just wish he'd communicate more with me. *sigh*

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ariestiger
unregistered
posted October 28, 2004 11:04 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Get this: He doesn't have any friends. He has virtually NEVER had any friends. He used to hate all my female friends, calling me a "lesbian" because I saw them for coffee occasionally (!). So now I have practically all male friends, though they are mainly work- related, and he's always saying to me, if I buy some new clothes: "Who are YOU trying to impress? Well, you certainly don't impress me, that's for sure! Nobody'd have you!" (Then he starts stroking my shoulders...?!)
Sorry - from the wolf-whistles I get, I just HAVE to disagree with that!!! And I'm afraid I'd just rather associate with people who make me feel good, rather than the opposite...basic psychology!

It's really weird, according to the chart on Astro.com, there is nothing particularly negative that stands out that I can see. He mainly seems to have quite a positive chart. Here it is:
Ascendant in Scorpio; Sun/Merc in Aqua, 3rd house; Moon in Leo/9th house; Venus in Cap/2nd house, Mars in Pisces/4th house; Jupiter in Virgo, 9th house; Saturn in Aries, 4th house; Uranus/Pluto in Virgo, 10th house; Neptune in Scorpio, 12th/1st house.
Sun OPP Moon/Jupiter, CJ Merc, SQ Neptune/Asc, QCX Pluto.
Moon OPP Merc, QCX Venus, SQ Neptune/Asc.
Merc OPP Jupiter, QCX Uranus, SQ Neptune/Asc.
Venus SX Mars/Neptune/Ascendant, TR Pluto.
Mars OPP Uranus/Pluto, TR Neptune/Asc.
Jupiter SQ Neptune/Asc.
Uranus SX Neptune/Asc.
Neptune SX Pluto, CJ Asc.
Pluto SX Asc.

The thing I noticed was that a lot of planets seem to square his Neptune and Ascendant, but, bar that of his Sun, they didn't appear to lend themselves to any sort of negative interpretation.
Also there may be problems regarding his Saturn in the 4th and Mars in Pisces, issues with any sort of authority, and there is a strong theme in his chart of the possibility of problems in later life if he has unresolved issues with his father. (I asked him if he was angry about his father the other day and he said no, just disappointed - resigned.)
However, my chart is in theory much more "difficult" than his - according to his, he should be having a relatively smooth ride.
I just don't understand it!!!
Why am I with him, do you ask? Well, because he looks nice, he dresses nicely, he smells nice, I love the feel of him, sex (when we have it) is good, and he cooks for me!
(Are these good enough reasons??)

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sthenri
unregistered
posted October 28, 2004 11:28 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
His Sun is opposite his moon, bad relations between parents? Did he mother and father get along, or is he the surrogate father? Sounds like he is more of a lover than a son, mom is clingy. I had a Cancer MIL too, and she was clingy, they talked every single day, she was always around when I would ask for alone time.

Yes, that is tough, I would say absence makes the heart grow fonder, I would leave my ex for a year and come back and we were much better.

If you can hack if financially try it,

Natasha

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ariestiger
unregistered
posted October 28, 2004 05:31 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Natasha!
No, his mother and father didn't get along. They never argued in front of him - actually, his father refused to argue. His father is like a child, (actually it's possible he has a dependence disorder, he had an even more codependent relationship with his mother than Mr. Aqua does) and right from early on, used to joke that Mr Aqua was more like "the father/parent" than he was. Mr Aqua used to look at his father and think - "yeah, you're right"...he always thought from an early age that there was something wrong with his father.
Is he a surrogate parent? Yes. And definetely was a surrogate husband to my MIL. He said it made sense to live with her for convenience's sake.
They were practically joined at the hip, and I still feel there is a "them and us" situation. When I lived with them they used to say, we're going shopping, what would you like us to get you, so I'd say, well, I would like x, from y, and they'd say, oh, WE never go there(the shop was literally 2 minutes' walk from all the other shops. If they had no intention of getting me anything, why did they ask?). MIL never used to tell me anything - for example, a family member died. They both went to the funeral when I was at work, and I didn't get to hear of it until three weeks later, even though I'd met the family member concerned. Or if she had a question to ask of me, she always used to ask through Mr. Aqua. She never used to approach me directly to converse, but complained that I was standoffish! (She still complains I don't phone her enough - though she never phones ME, personally, to chat!!!) Then she used to moan to my husband that I never helped around the house. So I offered to help, and she said she was fine managing on her own!!!!!! (Does this woman have a life???)
She felt very shunted out when I married Mr Aqua. I overheard her talking to some relatives once saying she felt "like a little gooseberry". Well, whose fault was THAT???

There is a webpage discussing the psychological consequences of being "Mother's Little Prince" which describes Mr. Aqua's situation EXACTLY - I've never come across a more accurate description. I feel so sorry for him, mother-son codependence actually seems far worse than father-daughter codependence, the sons end up unambitious, unfulfilled, depressed, and unable to form proper relationships. Mr Aqua can't understand why I resent MIL, he says she never does anything nasty. But that is just the point. She doesn't need to "do" anything. She just needs to sit there and get other people to do things for her, "act helpless" and operate through making people feel guilty (she's always giving people presents, so there is an unspoken maxim that she might be owed something in return). For example, she has never learned to drive. So if she wants to go out, she goes round either: with me and my husband, her brother and his wife, ex-husband and his new wife, or the neighbouring couple next door. So she is ALWAYS IN A THREESOME!!!! Is this healthy? I don't think so!
My husband was actually quite disturbed by the fact that I was so independent when we first married, he couldn't get his head round the fact that I never asked anyone to do anything for me (as an Aries, I typically used to see this as a sign of weakness). It took a long time for me to actually accept help from other people as his mother did.
Basically, if you want an analogy, my MIL is like Piglet, I am like Tigger. Remember how they got on - or didn't? And that's, as Linda Goodman says, about the way it wraps up.
I know she would do ANYTHING to have him back. And he often says to me that she was a better companion and easier to be with - i.e. didn't have such a quick temper, wasn't so noisy as I am, is just THERE - whenever he needs her. I have tried to "train" him on numerous occasions and in many, many different ways, to get some enthusiam going in him, just to rouse him to some passion sometimes, get him to have a bit more confidence in himself so that he can go on to tackle more, and more, and build his confidence. But he doesn't even seem to like praise - he doesn't feel he deserves it. All he wants to do is just "sit around and f**t all day" as he puts it. I believe I was the first person who said to him that that was out of the question. That is the direct result of arrested development and emotional enmeshment with his mother. Ultimately, if we do break up, I'm not too bothered about whether they get back together or no. They obviously enjoy one another's company.

What I am trying to do is get a business going so I can be financially independent. THEN I will be in a stronger position. If Mr. Aqua's confidence is weak, mine isn't!!!

LOL
AriesTiger

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astro junkie
unregistered
posted October 28, 2004 05:52 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Any future husband of mine would be completely spared of a MIL, and I want the same convenience.

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sthenri
unregistered
posted October 28, 2004 06:08 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It sounds like you just need the resources to make the break, but you may feel guilty later.

Remembering that he is like a child in someways may help you.

My ex, Libra/Gemini Moon still gets off on things that young boys do, gross disgusting humour. I never let myself forget that I will be too disgusted to eat with him.

Natasha

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ariestiger
unregistered
posted October 28, 2004 06:09 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
AJ - Ditto!
Natasha - Regarding childishness, recently I have found I can turn into "switch-off" mode quite easily, so it shuts a lot of unpleasant stuff out. Very useful, it saves me a lot of getting annoyed, and also enables me to dissociate myself from him somewhat.
Thing is, I want a partner, not a child. I want a MAN!!!

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sthenri
unregistered
posted October 28, 2004 11:15 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You could make a deal with him, you separate if you don't find someone else, then you back together after a year.

It's fair, and it gives you both time to review your lives. In the end you may want to grow old together after all,
It happens, if the romance is not important, then people get back together all the time. It's just a blip in time compared to the rest of your lives.

Natasha

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Aquarian Girl
unregistered
posted October 29, 2004 01:15 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wow, Ariestiger, I'm so sorry that you've had to put up with such treatment. As someone recently separated, I really feel for you. I can see a lot of behavioural parallels between your husband and mine.

For what it's worth, leaving him will be the hardest thing you will probably ever do, but once you get through it, it will be so worth it. I would never go back and I'm so glad I persevered and got through it all to where I am now.

We agreed to exactly what Natasha suggested - a years separation, after which if we wanted to be together, then we would be... I don't see that happening...

Do you keep a diary? I would recommend it... I kept a diary throughout my entire marriage and just recently, after having the clarity of being 5 months removed from everything, I went back to read it and was horrified and the things he put me through. I had blocked them out. He was always against that diary, he said I always focused and recorded all the negative things... Well, I'm thankful for having it. It's made me realize I can never, ever risk being mentally tortured like that again. I won't go back. And, as I said... thee are many parallels that I saw in your story and your description of your husbands behaviours.

If it was meant to be, then a year apart will mean nothing. It will strengthen your bond if you realize you want to go back and be with him, it will remove all doubts. I think that was really great advice. Plus, it just sounds like you need the mental breathing space from all his negativity and his family's dysfunction. (I had a passive aggressive MIL too! Now I can spot PA tendencies a mile a way and I can't stand them! AARRGGH!! )

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ariestiger
unregistered
posted October 29, 2004 02:47 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A "year out" sounds like an EXCELLENT idea. I'm interested to see whether Mr. Aqua would view it as just that, a breather, or whether he would want to cut ties permanently. He has said on several occasions that if I left him, he wouldn't worry, because he knew I'd always come back to him.
Well, I'm not so sure!!!
But I think it would be good for both of us, because I would be able to make decisions without dreading the moan-fest that I knew I was going to get every time.
I am so glad I am running the design company without him now!!! Every single decision was a battleground, we even had major issues over the company name and what font we were going to put on the letterhead, or whether or not to phone a customer at a certain time, and what to say to them. It was taking up an awful lot of energy. Now...Peace...absolutely sublime...Things get DONE, and customers are never left in uncertainty...
I'm loving it!
We still have a gardening business together and he runs that in the way that suits him, but thankfully we don't do too much of that now.

Aquarian Girl - I keep a diary of sorts, too. Usually to write all my targets for the year in, but also to vent about Mr. Aqua occasionally. I generally get rid of it at the end of the year, as I'm not always sure I want to read it. I was quite shocked when I read one of the diaries I hadn't binned a little while ago, and thought, "My God, did he really do THAT???" There was a phase when he was quite physically abusive. For example, if I had a pain anywhere, he would squeeze or hit that part of my body as hard as he could, without warning, and knowing that I had a pain there. It worried me, because I wondered what would happen if I were ever to develop a serious illness. I think that that was when I totally and utterly fell out of love with him. I really despised him. Now, if he shows even the slightest signs of getting that way, I lay into him. It's weird, but my having counselling seems to put me on an even keel so I find his behaviour easier to deal with. When the counselling stops, the physical stuff seems to gradually start up again. He goes amazingly crazy over the slightest things. I like the bedroom window closed at night because I get cold, he likes the window open because he gets too hot. We had an argument once over this which culminated in him flying into a blind rage, picking up my electric guitar, in its case, and threatening to put it through the window if I closed it. "You do that," I screamed, "and I am f**king DIVORCING you! Put my guitar down NOW!!!" So he looks at me, cool as a cucumber, and says, what are you screaming for???
Should I just dump him, once and for all???!!

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astro junkie
unregistered
posted October 29, 2004 03:42 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
YESSSSSSSS!!!

------------------
... it's better to light a candle than curse the darkness

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