posted January 17, 2005 01:04 PM            

Some time ago I read something I found fascinating... Apparently, countries and nations also have a natal horoscope!!! It considers when that nation or country was “born”...

For example... England... It is calculated for the crowning of William the Conqueror, in Westminster at high noon, 25 December 1066...

Sun Cap 9º55'12'' 10th house
Moon Pis 29º8'10'' 12th house
Mercury Cap 16º36'47'' 10th house
Venus Cap 29º51'45'' 10th house
Mars Aqu 8º27'53'' 11th house
Jupiter Vir 7º56'26'' 6th house
Saturn Vir 16º49'31'' 6th house
Uranus Sag 28º26'7'' 9th house
Neptune Tau 22º10'40'' 1st house
Pluto Pis 3º50'15'' 11th house
Asc Ari 22º
MC Cap 8º

Aries rising means the country is really happy when it´s fighting (how marvellous it was during the World Wars). A Capricorn Sun clings to the past, making the nation love their history and live from old glory.The two signs are about as pushy as the zodiac gets... they had an empire once...Capricorn thinks it knows what´s best for everybody... They once built the best roads that India ever had...
Aries rising also gives the English an insatiable ego. They think they are better than other nations, and the English smugly know the Sun will ever set on the British Empire...

The sky is nearly always grey in England. The entire country is a grey sky and a magnificent lush green, both Capricorn colours. Yet, everywhere you look, there are surprising dots of red – telephone kiosks, post boxes, guards´uniforms, buses...- that´s the Aries rising.

Mercury is in Capricorn, a stuffy, clipped, organised way of speaking. It trines Neptune, Jupiter and Saturn. It´s a gorgeous, sweet, formal, imaginative, subtle and ever-changing accent, like the language...

Venus shows the girls the country fancies. In Capricorn denotes the English ideal – the perfect lady, modest beauty, slim, with perfect skin and gorgeous legs (Capricorn rules the knees) – After living there for 4 years, I must admit, most women have wonderful long, beautiful legs with little tendency to accumulate fat...

Saturn is in the 6th house... For God´s sake, they do live for work! Capricorn make them live for their career as a nation...

posted January 17, 2005 03:08 PM              

well I think it already has!

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"They once built the best roads that India ever had..."
---
Um, they also f ucked India up a lot too. (And made a mess of many other countries in their wake (along with other colonialists too, of course)

Other than that, the "living off past glories part is defintely true lol

posted January 17, 2005 05:17 PM            

How did you estimated the time? Is there any source that allows you to check, for example, the approximate time the British Parliament agreed Canada´s independent dominion?

I don´t know much about Canada or how the country is appreciated internationally, which helps giving starting points for the interpretation... In this side of the world, Canada is USA little sister, much quieter and retired from the wordly events... I personally don´t know much more about your huge beautiful country... , not even the stereotypes...

Unfortunatelly, “Secrets from a Stargazer´s Notebook” only gives a few examples and Canada is not one of them... But maybe you, other Canadians or people who know your nation really well could make the attempt... That would be fun!!! This was the purpose of this thread...

I found funny the fact that Canada and the USA are both Cancerian... Is that why they get on well, why they have always been good neighbours?

Cancerian colours are silver grey and blue, white... I have that image of silvery-blue mountains with evergreen forests covered in snow... What about the sky? Is it grey most of the time, like in England? Apparently all trees, particularly those rich in sap, are ruled by Cancer, being the Maple tree, the emblem of Canada, one of them...

If the time is estimated, I suppose the Ascendant is less reliable...

posted January 17, 2005 08:48 PM              

Planetary positions
planet sign degree house motion
Sun Leo 21°06'39 04 direct
Moon Cancer 27°06'19 03 direct
Mercury Leo 06°47'46 03 direct
Venus Leo 15°40'59 04 direct
Mars Cancer 00°34'41 02 direct
Jupiter Scorpio 18°59'58 06 direct
Saturn Leo 13°35'41 03/4 direct
Uranus Gemini 25°10'30 01/2 direct
Neptune Libra 08°49'45 05 direct
Pluto Leo 13°13'48 03/4 direct
True Node Taurus 28°52'04 12/1 retrograde

posted January 18, 2005 01:59 AM              

This has an interesting dissection of Australia's colonial birth chart (Sun, Venus, Saturn, Pluto, Asc, Jupiter, Chiron, Neptune, MC all in air; Virgo moon... no planets in fire) and then the second chart created after 1901 federation has a cappy sun and 6 aspects in Sag! (Asc, Mercury, Jupiter, Uranus, Venus, NN and Chiron).

posted January 18, 2005 02:37 AM              

my follow up for this chart...

taurus asc...indians love food! there are more fat people in india than anywhere else. also, only the practical survive in india. indians are lazy and stubborn. so stubborn that old values, morals and superstious believes have thier roots since 5000 years and still there is no change.

moon in cancer... it is said that percentage wise, indians save the most. most indians tend to save their salary rather than spend it even if they have sufficient money. also, indian mothers along with chineese have the highest reproduciton ability.

also, corruption is second highest in india. wonder what part of the chart could explain that.

look at the planets in leo. anyone with any insight?

posted January 18, 2005 04:54 AM              

quote:

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I don´t know much about Canada or how the country is appreciated internationally, which helps giving starting points for the interpretation... In this side of the world, Canada is USA little sister, much quieter and retired from the wordly events... I personally don´t know much more about your huge beautiful country... , not even the stereotypes...

---

Please, please don't call us USA's little sister. PLEASE. We aren't. We are very, very different, note the libra asc. I live in Europe, too, so I know how we are seen. All my friends and family are so careful now not to call me American (in their eyes, they mean American like "European", but that's a no go for me lol). Americans (I'm speaking here from country-stereotypes and governmental action, and NOT from individuals!!) march in and want to take over the world--aries? Canadians are well known for their peace-keeping missions all over the world. My aunt, a captain in the Canadian military, has spent,in total, 2.5 years in the Gaza strip, keeping the peace.

quote:

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I found funny the fact that Canada and the USA are both Cancerian... Is that why they get on well, why they have always been good neighbours?

---

I think the USA has an aries rising? Is that correct? That makes us very different creatures. We haven't always got along well, we aren't always good neighbours. The American government sits hard on the Canadian government, imagine having to be a border country to America!

For example, environmental issues. We share the Great Lakes with the USA. We have quite strong evironmental protection policies in place, what can not be dumped into the lakes etc. President Clinton passed a law that companies that can show they can not afford to uphold these strong restrictions can be granted permission to ignore the policies. We end up getting to clean up the mess.

I grew up on the border, right across from Detroit. I remember the huge garbage incinerator fights that Windsor had with Detroit. Of course, we lost, and of course they built the incinerator (Detroit has a pop. of 5 million) at a point where the wind takes the poisoned smoke over to us, leaving them in peace. We get to deal with that, but have no hope in hell of changing any of that.

I was so proud when PM Chretien stood up to the American government and refused to aid their war on Iraq. I hope PM Martin will keep up the tradition and not get involved with Iran. Although we're then (like all other countries that didn't support the war) still expected to go in with our peacekeeping troops and our tax payers money and clean up the mess the US left behind.

So, back to the chart, there is a moon/uranus/sun conjunction in cancer in the 10th. 10th being the public house, I see how Canada would be seen as taking a back seat, although Uranus will often unexpectedly rocket Canada into the spotlight?

An 11th house leo, 11th being the house of friends and groups, Canada is very loyal to it's friends. We fought with UK from day 1 of the two World Wars, after Sept. 11 we took all the planes that weren't allowed to land in the US and housed and cared for the stranded passengers (of course, not ONE word of thanks to Canada, although we were first to respond to US's desperation--everyone else was thanked, but of course not us). Mars in Virgo is toned down energy, not a ball of energy but rather thought out action. It opposes Jupiter in the 5th in pisces. A pisces Jupiter is dreamy and idealistic, so here we have a careful mars coupled with an idealistic jupiter, as well as a libra asc gives the chart of the peace keeper, the mediator.

Canada was not founded on violence, but rather mediation and rationality (libra asc, gemini 9th house). Funny enough, I do believe that USA has an aries rising. Canada's 7th house (house of partners) is aries. Neptune is in aries, they don't see their partners as they actually are, but rather as they want and wish them to be. Neptune squares the MC, as well as the sun/moon/uranus conjuntion, parner issues (goverment relationships) have a bearing on our national sense of self-worth.

Notice also the unaspected mercury. Although in leo (loud), it is unaspected (quiet) and not integrated into the chart. No one hears Canada's voice.

So that was all off the top of my head, I'm probably way off in most of the descriptions lol

posted January 18, 2005 08:44 AM            

Archer, that analysis is fascinating... I can´t see how India could be ruled by Capricorn... It doesn´t come across that way, at least not internationally...

I´m really taken by the colour theme stuff... Well, you do see gold all over the place when you imagine India... Golden, bright, rich and ostentatious bulky jewelry, bright and colourful fabrics... Leo dominion, I would say... A sunny country, bright and loud, full of good-hearted people...

All planets in the bottom of the chart could mean this is a very spriritual country, which it obviously is... India is a land of faith and spirituality, cradle of several religions which are more a philosophy of life than anything else.

Hmmm... Type of woman the nation go for... Venus in Leo... Proud and noble, with presence... With beautiful mane-like hair... Princesses of Bollywood... If you look at those heroines, you see Leo characteristicts, don´t you?...

There is a stellium in the 4th house... House of traditions and roots...

Sorry, Nackie, about “the little sister thing”... As a Canadian you must be really sick of getting that kind of comment... It must not be easy living in the shadow of the USA... It´s not easy for Spain living close to France either, and there is no comparison, of course...

I do perceive that peacemaker influence in Canada... Canadian are hardly involved in bloodsheds and silly wars unlike other nations, they usually go there afterwards to clear up the mess... A Libra Ascendant...

I think you are right about the silence surrondind Canada, taking the back seat and so on... It could be Mercury unaspected as you said... You do come across as a beautiful country (Libra) kept to your own, hidden and diluted by your louder neighbour...

SparklingSag, if you give a little more time to put it together, I will post the USA chart as per “Secrets from a Stargazer´s Notebook”...

posted January 18, 2005 09:00 AM              

what makes it so vivid in cultures

posted January 18, 2005 09:12 AM              

Liz Greene puts her vote in the hat for the latter based off of Sept. 11th - http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_wtc_e.htm .

(If you're interested, here's the long-term charts for several other countries: http://www.astro.com/samples/h2000_ctr_e.htm - and something on relocation: http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_relocation_e.htm )

Lois Rodden's Astrodatabank gives explanations and backgrounds for most of the proposed charts: http://www.astrodatabank.com/NM/USA.htm .
If you'd really like to wade-in, try the comments section on for size.

Dane Rudhyar had something to say about it, too: http://www.khaldea.com/rudhyar/astroarticles/riddleusahoroscope.shtml

posted January 18, 2005 10:10 AM            

The date of birth is considered to be the 4th of July 1776 in Philadelphia at 2:15am...

Sun Can 12º43’48’’ 2nd house
Moon Aqu 18º10’45’’ 10th house
Mercury Can 24º28’15’’ 3rd house
Venus Can 2º20’35’’ 1st house
Mars Gem 20º57’4’’ 1st house
Jupiter Can 5º47’34’’ 2nd house
Saturn Lib 14º4713’’ 5th house
Uranus Gem 8º53’22’’ 1st house
Neptune Vir 22º24’32’’ 4th house
Pluto Cap 27º33’48’’ 9th house
Asc Gem 7º43’

Uranus is right on the rising sign, which rules science and revolution. Gemini rising make USA a nation of yakkers – they have the best telephone system in the world and their technology (Uranus) is unrivaled. When foreigners look beyond the first impression of the loud, childlike American, they discover the four planets in warm, home-loving Cancer. Americans think they are mothers to the world, and they are lucky with Jupiter conjunct the Sun. That gives them their “Santa Claus complex”. They really want to be generous.

Sun and Jupiter in the money box (2nd house) give the United States luck and love with money – “Land of Opportunity”.The funkier side of the USA is that money has become a God to many Americans; the spiritual meaning of this placement is that it is a nation founded on strong values. They like to invite people to their homes, they like to feed people and they get terribly, sloppily sentimental about their country – all Cancer characteristics.

Saturn in Libra poses them a psychological problem. It´s hard for them to meet other countries as peers. Politically, they think in terms of being “better than, stronger than” other countries. This attitude brings repercussions of fear and jealousy from other nations, who doesn´t necesarily like being “mothered” or patronised.

Venus in Cancer gives a clue to the American femenine ideal – “Mom and Apple Pie”. They make their women into mother figures, and they must have big breasts. Americans like women (Venus is with Jupiter) and spend a lot of money on them.

posted January 18, 2005 11:14 AM            

Fatalism? That leads to Saturn, doesn´t it? Lord of fears and dependency (boundaries), master of bad luck...

Saturn is in the 4th house, which rules crops, land and agriculture, mother Earth... It is squaring Jupiter, so it´s bound to cause discontent, blocked self-confidence and tendency to blame circumstances or background for lack of success (rain). It also squares the Ascendant, which gives the nation a pessimistic or rather gloomy outlook in that area. Square to Chiron in the 8th could lead to fear of losing.

Vivid in cultures? This is more tricky... Maybe Pisces in the 11th, which makes the nation tolerant... Also the spiritualism given by having all planets in the bottom half... Being vivid in cultures to me is very Gemini... That´s the 2nd house, therefore the nation is “rich” in difference... Also Uranus in Gemini, given originality in the different “cultural siblings”, that´s why they are vivid... Maybe also Jupiter conjunct the descendant (how you relate to others) gives expansion and mercy in that area...

posted January 18, 2005 04:37 PM              

I've also heard that comparing one's natal chart to a nation's chart can be very revealing as to our relationship with that particular country.

...As an American, I have some interesting synastry with that U.S.A. chart:

U.S.A. Ascendant conjuncts my North Node EXACTLY
U.S.A. Moon conjuncts my Ascendant EXACTLY
U.S.A. Venus conjuncts my Jupiter within 2-degree orb
U.S.A. Uranus conjuncts my North Node within 1-degree orb
U.S.A. Neptune conjuncts my Mercury within 3-degree orb
U.S.A. Midheaven conjuncts my Ascendant within a 2-degree orb.

...And yes, I my country.

posted January 19, 2005 09:04 AM            

Sun Sco 29º32’49’’ 10th house
Moon Can 11º34’13’’ 6th house
Mercury Sco 25º54’18’’ 10th house
Venus Lib 13º40’59’’ 8th house
Mars Can 0º49’16´´ 5th house
Jupiter Ari 15º18’33’’ 2nd house
Saturn Leo 2º55’15’’ 6th house
Uranus Sco 4º27’22’’ 9th house
Neptune Sag 11º04’11’’ 10th house
Pluto Lib 10º55’00’’ 8th house
Chiron Ari 24º24’28’’ 2nd house

Well, and now the interpretation...

According to this, Spain is Scorpio... That would explain that extended myth about sexy and passionate latin lovers, dark and intense Spaniards... Death and blood is very close to our international identity: think of those traditions like bullfighting or races in front of bulls (the most popular in Pamplona every 7th of July... Many other towns have similar events with young cattle). There is also a very deeply rooted religious fervour in the South, where the passion of Christ, death and resurrection, is celebrated with sacred songs in flamenco style that sound like crying, processions, blood red, purple and black all over the place, penitents... a very scorpionic spectacle...

Think of operas like Carmen... That´s the view foreigners have from Spain... Dark and vengeful, extremely passionate gipsies... Isn´t that scorpian?

The regeneration ability of my country has been amazing... In just 30 years, after a Civil War, a dictatorship and represive regime, we are now in the front line, as part of the EU and as one of the countries with a best standard of living... Scorpio again...

The Ascendant according to this chart is Aquarius... Maybe that´s what make such a sociable nation... We like to be out with friends... There´s a culture of going out with mates... And when we go abroad we get shocked of how much time people spend in their own homes with their inmediate families... In Spain, we socialise even when we have kids... We take them out too or leave then with the granny in a regular basis...

Then you look at the colouring... When you are ready to land in Spain after a long period abroad, it strikes you how red the land is... Deep red... Dry... Arid in the surface... Scorpio color and quality... And then you look at the sky... High, inmense, wide open... Inmaculately blue... Turquoise and aquamarine sea mirroring it... Aquarius colours...

Moon in Cancer strengthens the family unit... Everything in society revolves around that... Even in places like Madrid you get that village feeling that you are living in a little world... That makes us a likeable, sociable nation who likes home , habits and big families...

Mercury in Scorpio makes us awkward customers... We love arguing just for the feel of it... And criticising... People is nosey and try to find out every single detail in each other´s lives...

Venus shows the girls the country fancies. In Libra, shows women have to be nice looking, curvy and femenine... Venus is conjunct with Pluto in the 8th house, therefore an ideal woman is passionate and intense, powerful and even jealous, mysterious...

Mars in Cancer drives all energy into the family unit...

There are no planets in Earth signs... Maybe that shows why we are not a productive or practical country... Work is not as important over here... Life is to be lived and enjoyed... Maybe that´s way Spain is becoming a holiday resort and industry is not strong here...