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Author Topic:   Kurt Cobain, "Water Sign Poster-Child"
Heart--Shaped Cross
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posted March 13, 2005 02:03 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
http://www.cafeastrology.com/famouspeople/kurtcobain.html

"I'm so tired of crying and dreaming..."


Kurt Cobain may as well have been a Water sign poster-child. The former Nirvana musician had an astonishing number of planets in Water, including all of his personal planets. And, with his Sun, Mercury, and Venus in Pisces (and add to that a Sun square Neptune which attaches even more Piscean flavor to his chart), Kurt's "sensitive loner" image was no doubt far more than just an image.

Some bio facts about Kurt: He was born February 20, 1967 in Washington. He first formed the "grunge rock" group, Nirvana, in 1987. He married Courtney Love in April 1992, and his daughter was born in August of the same year. He shot himself dead in April 1994, when he was 27 years old. Plenty of controversy surrounded his death — not everyone accepted it as a suicide.

Some Astrological Notes: If his birth time is to be believed, he had a Virgo Ascendant with Uranus and Pluto rising (conjuncting his Ascendant). Whether or not his time is correct, these transpersonal planets opposed his Moon, Mercury, and Venus. These latter planets, naturally, were descending in his chart.


"All apologies"

Kurt's lyrics revealed pain in withdrawal, anger, and some cynicism (likely born out of extreme sensitivity). Despite his feeling of being all alone and disconnected, he managed to truly connect with, or "speak" to, a massive audience--even if it was a one-way relationship.

Besides the striking number of planets in water signs, a number of things stand out in Kurt's chart. Among these, most interesting to me is Pluto rising (conjunct the Ascendant), but found in the twelfth house. I always consider planets just "behind" the Ascendant as quivering on the edge of expression. While Uranus is within approximately the same distance from the Ascendant as Pluto, Uranus is right "out there" for everyone to see. Pluto, on the other hand, would have been as strong an influence on Kurt's character as Uranus was, and may even have been more so because it didn't quite have the opportunity to express itself fully, "living" just below the surface in the private 12th house.

In any chart I look at, I consider a planet in this position (in the 12th house, conjunct the Ascendant) as a point of much preoccupation and, often, troubles in the native's life. Any planet conjunct the Ascendant can show some level of immaturity, but its place in the 12th house also suggests a drive towards mastery or maturity. The resulting mix is unusual and contradictory. That planet's energy is powerful in the native's life, and has an almost self-conscious need to be seen and expressed. Still, it's under the surface, on the verge of expression, yet not quite out of the closet.


"I'm so happy because today
I've found my friends
They're in my head"

In this case, Pluto is the rising 12th house planet. Pluto rules death and rebirth. A strong Pluto in any chart gives the native a powerful need to regenerate and a striving for meaning and purpose. It desires power, and is sometimes obsessively attached. It is dramatic in its need to get to the bottom of things, to bring to light our inner darkness. When the healing and regenerative process of Pluto is not understood or used constructively, the native can be self-destructive and have an overwhelming feeling of purposelessness. Pluto's contacts and house position can show us where the native seeks power and control. Since the 12th house rules, amongst other things, isolation, we can safely assume that Kurt had a strong preoccupation with, and feelings of, being isolated. Pluto in this placement would show a tendency to self-analysis that is almost obsessive and often counter-productive, as well as a brooding quality. A compelling need to bring to light his own inner darkness would be emphasized—a need so powerful that it would have been a driving force behind almost all he did.


"I wish I was like you
Easily amused
Find my nest of salt
Everything is my fault
I'll take all the blame
Aqua seafoam shame"

The strong Pisces, Neptune, and water in Kurt's chart suggests enormous wells of sensitivity, creativity, and longing to belong. There's a Pisces/Neptune yearning for connection to someone or something higher, a receptive and feeling Cancer Moon, combined with both the passion and the bite of Mars in Scorpio.

Water signs: From Arroyo's book, Astrology, Psychology, and the Four...Elements:


"The sensitivity of the water signs is so great and the vulnerability to hurt so pronounced that, if the emotional reactions are not controlled and channeled properly, it can lead to a state of emotional instability and predisposition to being too easily influenced by the slightest wind that blows."


"I'm too sensitive."

In Kurt's alleged suicide note, he refers to himself as "the sad little, sensitive, unappreciative Pisces, Jesus man". ("...but I still can't get over the frustration, the guilt and empathy I have for everyone. There's good in all of us and I think I simply love people too much, so much that it makes me feel too ____ing sad. The sad little, sensitive, unappreciative, Pisces, Jesus man!").

Feelings run deep for Water signs, sometimes to the point of being all-consuming. With the element of Air virtually missing in his chart, he would have a particularly difficult time dealing with others in a superficial or light manner. ("The worst crime I can think of would be to rip people off by faking it and pretending as if I'm having 100% fun.")

"I'm so ugly, but that's okay, cause so are you
We've broken our mirrors"

Uranus and Pluto rising in Virgo suggests a need to project himself as unique and deep in a nondescript (Virgoan) way. By emphasizing a glamour-less manner, he sought to express his rebelliousness and originality. It also suggests a desire to bring change, to go against what is expected of him—things that run counter to his need to belong shown in the strong Pisces emphasis. This simultaneous need to be one with humanity and to rebel against society may have been one of the sources for much inner conflict and restlessness.

Wherever you find Virgo, you are sure to encounter humbleness and some lack of self-confidence. In Kurt's case, Virgo was rising (on the Ascendant). The Ascendant represents, amongst other things, our physical appearance and presentation to the world.

A strong need for relationship is seen with many planets near the Descendant and with Kurt's many oppositions on the Ascendant/Descendant axis. Inner turmoil and unrest is evidenced by Uranus and Pluto opposing his many personal planets.

A grand trine in water can be found in his chart, involving Venus, Jupiter, and Neptune. Any grand trine reveals powerful possibilities and latent talents. This trine suggests an idealistic and romantic personality, capable of loving and feeling for not only individuals, but mankind in general. These personality traits could be the source for much creativity. Love, empathy, and good will would generally be associated with this configuration. In the real world, grand trines can go "wasted" when there is insufficient drive to put the talents they proffer to practical use.

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moonshine
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posted March 13, 2005 03:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for moonshine     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
aww.. i've always loved Kurt. After reading that I think I love him even more.. thanks

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maya-v
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posted March 13, 2005 07:48 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Candles burn out ... but shooting stars fade away. I dont know which Id rather be, but I definitely want my little spot to shine and glow before the life force passes out of me ... is that too Sun in Taurus materialistic? Can my fish moon forgive me?

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The Mutable Night Force
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posted March 14, 2005 02:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for The Mutable Night Force     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Kurt Cobain has single-handedly made me like Pisceans a great deal now. I mean, however, if you think about it, his suicide note is highly self-pitying, but I suppose with that much Pisces, it's expected.

You say his Virgo ascendant is how he shows himself to the world... does that have anything to do with the fact he occaisionally wore dresses?

Aww.... I love Kurt

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whalewasp78
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posted March 15, 2005 01:33 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yea, I loved Kurt also...I think more now since I checked out his chart, and found I share Pisces sun/Virgo rising along with Mercury and Venus in Pisces. He had Mars in Scorpio, mines in Cancer. Hmmm, interesting. Though I don't wear dresses!

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zoso
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posted March 16, 2005 03:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for zoso     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I work in a book store and while doing random chores, i found a book on Kurt Cobain's Journals. Very cool. Has anyone seen it? I tried looking it up on our system and it said we had two, but all day I looked for them but to no avail. They weren't anywhere in the store, not even mis-shelved somewhere. I ended up special ordering one, but was wondering if anyone has one or can give any synopsis or opinion about it????? It's basically his handwritten journal entries...

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whalewasp78
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posted March 16, 2005 11:04 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey zoso! I bought the journals book about a year ago. There's alot of letters he wrote to friends, his artwork, song lyrics, even some recipes he jotted down. It's made to look just like the actual notebook. The pages are actually copies of the actual pages in the spiral meade notebook. On the cover he wrote, "If you read, you'll judge."

For a good biography, check out 'Kurt Cobain' by Chris Sanderson. It gives a pretty objectional view overall, describing what a hellian he was as a child, adolescent, and adult. It also gives a glimpse of the health problems he had. Apparently a pinched nerve in his back gave him immense stomach pain. So bad, he'd inject opiates directly into his stomach.

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sassygrrrl
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posted March 21, 2005 03:03 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
oh wow this is so weird - I have actually been reading a biography this past month about Kurt and thinking about him a lot, and then I stumble upon this thread which was made at the very time I was deep into all things Kurt. And I noticed that quite a lot of things on the net and in the media have recently been focusing on him too. Hmmm...I wonder if all the planets being in Pisces this past month has brought out all these Kurt thoughts?

Like Kurt, I have many water planets (including Pisces) and no Air ones, and so I can relate to his emotionalism and sensitivity, and I can probably wallow in self-pity a little bit too much too. Although I don't think I'll ever take things to the extreme that he did, I would be lying if I said I haven't thought about it.

...And one thing about Kurt's chart that I found puzzling was that Pluto conjunct the Ascendant usually makes one a very strong person, able to withstand anything. But perhaps all that water in his chart ultimately overwhelmed him in the end.

I miss Kurt.

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zoso
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posted March 21, 2005 05:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for zoso     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yeah, that is kinda strange how he's been popping up in all these people's lives recently...

I finally bought Journals and it is so eye-opening to, not only Kurt himself, but his surroundings as he saw them. I almost feel like I'm peeping into things I shouldn't , but I guess now that he's passed, it really doesn't matter to him anymore... or does it?

But I can be comforted in that the compliation (is that a word?) is very objective and done in such a way that doesn't put him in any negative light IMO.

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sassygrrrl
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posted March 21, 2005 06:04 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've yet to read the journals, although I plan to get around to it sooner or later. I just finished reading 'Heavier Than Heaven' which was pretty riveting although I find some of the things stated in it very questionable. For instance, I find it very hard to believe that Kurt would purposely kill a cat, and not only kill one, but in such a cruel and sadistic way. It just seems so extremely un-Kurt-like, especially as he seemed to love animals otherwise, even having a beloved pet cat as a boy, and also seemed to be fond of a stray studio cat during a Nirvana recording session.
And there were other things about it I found quite questionable too. So if I want to get inside the actual mind and emotions of the true Kurt Cobain, I suppose I should just stick with listening to his music and maybe read the journals too and leave it at that.

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zoso
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posted March 21, 2005 07:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for zoso     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've never heard of the killing cat thing, but in Journals, he writes a letter with a funny little story about how he tried to "fix" the icebox by slamming it with a hammer and then a while later, his gf Tracy started noticing a strong fume. They though it was free-on so the first thing he mentioned was getting the animals outside.

I have a hard time believing he would kill a cat, but who knows? Nothing in his journals suggested any anger/violence towards the innocent,

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sassygrrrl
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posted March 21, 2005 07:34 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes I think there was a mention in the Heaven book about that saving-the-pets incident. The cat killing incident was when a teenaged Kurt supposedly walled up a cat inside his family fireplace, and it eventually died from starvation or suffocation. Then the poor creature's corpse eventually stank up the house, and Kurt was said to have laughed about the entire incident. I just find this hard to believe, not just because I am a Cobain fan, but because it just seems 180-degrees from his behavior otherwise. Usually when people are cruel to animals, they are consistently so, and this one incident just seems nothing like the Kurt who was otherwise very sensitive and usually kind to animals. The cat story was apparently told to the author of Heaven by a childhood friend of Kurt's, so I question the supposed truth in that person's story. For all we know this person could have made the story up because they are jealous of Kurt's success. I would hope that was the case rather than the fact that Kurt was a cat killer, even if it was that one time, because it was so cruel. Because I would hate to think that he could ever do something so cruel, and if it was in fact proven that he did such a thing, I honestly don't know if I could listen to his music again. But I really don't think it's true.

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whalewasp78
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posted March 23, 2005 01:55 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, in that biography I read, a neighbor's cat was found dead when Kurt was about 8....they all put the blame on him. There was another incident when he was staying at a high school teacher's house, which claimed Kurt and one of the teacher's sons got into an argument over a pizza. Apparently Kurt kicked the boy into unconsciousness, and the teacher was forced to throw him out.
Throughout the book, after interviewing friends and people that knew Kurt, he had a very soft, gentle side...and a side that could be demonic. Friends said he could give a downright scary 'don't f@*k with me', gaze. Probably his Mars in Scorpio.

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mianfei
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posted January 11, 2011 08:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mianfei     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Kurt Cobain’s amazing concentration of planets in water signs is something that has seemed to capture the attention of the astrological community.

It is so difficult to see a chart with so much water that I myself have taken attention. As a self-taught sociologist it is easy to see the opposite values in Nirvana’s music from what would be predicted from a man with so much water.

The very things critics then criticised in Nirvana’s music (and which I could easily hear in the mishearing “I kill you”/“What’s that gonna change?”) are qualities one would not associate in the ordinary sense with water signs, which tend to be gentle and mystical rather than loud and angry.

However, coming from a region that has historically been militant, atheistic and unionist owing to the power of its timber barons, Cobain was raised in an environment hostile to the feeling-oriented nature of water signs. The result is naturally someone who is easily hurt and hyperactive under nurture typical of the region. Cobain’s tendency towards drug use can very easily be seen from these conditions, as can the despairing, dark, even nihilistic emotions of his songs where he feels he has no answer to his emotional problems.

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lunagoatlion
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posted January 23, 2011 09:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lunagoatlion     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wow, 9 out of 11 planets is intense! I've never seen so much water in my life. I wonder if anyone has ever had more than that. It would be quite a burden, indeed.

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Randall
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posted January 24, 2011 11:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

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"Cooking is like love. It should be entered into with abandon or not at all." Harriet Van Horne

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blonderiverkat
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posted January 24, 2011 02:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for blonderiverkat     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It makes me wonder if anyone has ever looked into the charts of Elvis Presley, Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, and the likes...all obviously advanced souls, and so aware...yet they couldn't handle all of it? We have had serious drug and alcohol problems amongst most of our family, suicide talk, and attempts...a few deaths related to drugs and alcohol...artists and musicians...and I am just coming to realize how advanced their souls really were, and are...very interesting...I hope this topic picks up again!

Kat

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'Anything and Everything is possible with Anything and Everything'

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mianfei
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posted January 31, 2015 04:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mianfei     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by lunagoatlion:
Wow, 9 out of 11 planets is intense! I've never seen so much water in my life. I wonder if anyone has ever had more than that. It would be quite a burden, indeed.
I can confirm that over the period between before the last Neptune/Pluto opposition in 1646 through not only today but also through their next opposition in 2139, at no time are there more planets in water signs than Kurt Cobain had (there does exist one period of nine planets (Sun to Pluto) in fire during 1710, one period of nine planets in air during 2032, and eight cases of nine in earth in 1714, 1715, 1774, 1775, 1822/1823, 1878, 1881 and 2107).

I have not checked for other cases of eight planets in water, but apart from a new moon in November 1974 when all seven fully visible planets were in water, and another in July 1925 when only Neptune in Leo and Jupiter in Capricorn were not in water, it is impossible anyone alive today would have more water than Kurt – except of course for someone born with a water ascendant or midheaven on the same day. Actress Lourdes Benedicto was born during that 1974 Scorpio New Moon (I wish a birth time could somehow be found for her) with all fully visible planets in water and – raised in a strongly Catholic home – seems to cope with the excess water much better than possible in the historically militant and atheist Pacific Northwest.

According to Astrotheme, the most “watery” full chart is that of speed skater Eric Flaim, who was born three weeks after Cobain with Venus and Saturn in Aries to add assertiveness and ability to deal with the world, but with Cancer ascendant and Pisces midheaven. That Aries would certainly make a difference, especially in a society so based on logic and justice rather than mercy as I have said the Pacific Northwest is. With his Neptune conjunct Vesta by only five minutes, in a less atheistic and individualistic culture Kurt would have had amazing potential as a spiritual leader.

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Randall
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posted February 04, 2015 03:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

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Randall
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posted February 05, 2015 10:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Tragic life.

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YellowGerbera
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posted February 12, 2015 04:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for YellowGerbera     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wow I have the same bday as him, and also Uranus rising but I am sag ascending instead. I have 5 planets all together in water: Pisces (3) and Scorpio (2). Neptune is in Cap but sextiles my stellium in Pisces.

I can really relate to what's written here about him and his thoughts. I've had all those moments/feelings. It's so easy to just live in my imagination. The reality feels very depressing and cold. I do feel like a loner sometimes, and just invisible to everyone else.

It's our bday soon! Happy birthday to us!

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astra7
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posted March 12, 2015 07:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for astra7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Interesting, if you look at his daughter's chart which is rated AA, she too have two planet conjunction on Asc. Sun in 12th house (absent father) http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Cobain,_Frances

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astra7
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posted March 12, 2015 07:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for astra7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by blonderiverkat:
It makes me wonder if anyone has ever looked into the charts of Elvis Presley, Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, and the likes...all obviously advanced souls, and so aware...yet they couldn't handle all of it? We have had serious drug and alcohol problems amongst most of our family, suicide talk, and attempts...a few deaths related to drugs and alcohol...artists and musicians...and I am just coming to realize how advanced their souls really were, and are...very interesting...I hope this topic picks up again!

Kat




The thing is, when you know so much, the truth is overwhelming. It's so much easier to live in veiled (d)illusion.

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Brendan34
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posted March 13, 2015 03:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Brendan34     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by YellowGerbera:
Wow I have the same bday as him, and also Uranus rising but I am sag ascending instead. I have 5 planets all together in water: Pisces (3) and Scorpio (2). Neptune is in Cap but sextiles my stellium in Pisces.

I can really relate to what's written here about him and his thoughts. I've had all those moments/feelings. It's so easy to just live in my imagination. The reality feels very depressing and cold. I do feel like a loner sometimes, and just invisible to everyone else.

It's our bday soon! Happy birthday to us!


I've always strongly related to Kurt's disposition and anecdotes about his life. I have Sun, Jupiter, Venus, Mercury in Pisces, Cancer Ascendant, and Pluto in Scorpio so feel you on the excess Water in the chart..haha. Also have Neptune in Capricorn and Moon in Capricorn. There have been times I've been so immersed in my imagination that I forget the reality that surrounds me, yet inevitably we are pulled back. I think my Cap. moon is acutely aware of the expectations of reality, yet my true Pisces side craves emotions, deep beauty and idealism. I know what you mean in feeling invisible, I have often felt that way....outside the momentum of things, people, etc. Often I inadvertently hold my emotions in until they sort of spill out when I'm alone. Crying is a necessary release for me (at points), as long as it is healthy. Exercise has also been a more positive outlet.

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AngaCrowley
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posted March 13, 2015 04:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for AngaCrowley     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I was JUST talking about him earlier with my husband, because of that documentary that's coming out about his life. I found it astonishing that my husband, who knows nothing about astrology, used the term 'drowning in himself' after I made the observation that others always seemed to want more from him than he wanted from them. Whatever he wanted, it wasnt anything anyone had to offer.

Anyway, as soon as he said that I had a light-bulb moment, remembered this post and and had to search it out. It was clear to everyone, apparently, just how much 'water' he was dealing with.

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