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Author Topic:   Asc & 1st house?
Yang
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posted June 07, 2005 08:14 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As most of you guys probably know that your asc and 1st house are the same sign.
Why is that? What is the reason behind it?

My asc is Leo

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aries-chick
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posted June 07, 2005 08:49 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sometimes your Asc is in the 12th though, when it's really late.. or something along those lines. I don't really understand the 12th house ascendant thing enough to explain it. If Natasha (sthenri) sees this she'd explain it a lot better lol

I think it's basically when nearly the whole of your 1st is in the next sign over (this is my situation).. in equal house your asc falls in the 12th.. is that what it is? anyone care to validate?

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hot_ice
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posted June 07, 2005 09:12 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
hey i thought asc is where the first house starts (???)

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geminstone
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posted June 07, 2005 10:01 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm a learner still but, does'nt the equal house system just make the houses equal from the point of your Ascendent..... like, for example, I am a 22Scorpio Rising so, that would begin the first house then, 22Sagittarius would be my second house cusp, 22Cappy;3rd, etc..... ? I think, maybe, you are thinking in terms of Vedic, Aries-Chick... but, as I said, I am green still...

Hot_Ice ~ I think, if you are using a placidus or, koch or, one of the more familiar house wheels, then your Asc. is your 1st House Cusp...

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geminstone
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posted June 07, 2005 10:13 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sorry Yang ... I really had the intention of trying to shed some light on your question too....
So, here goes and, this is my understanding so, it very well, could be off.... It has something to do with the celestial points being left in the Signs that they were in when astrology started... Aries was that Sign, then. Since then, these points have, actually, moved( I think very near, if not into, Aquarius). In Vedic, these are placed at their actual point, however, and this gives an Ascendent that is seperate from the First House Cusp....

Well, I hope that gives to something, of a clue anyway.... you can pull up your chart on astro.com to see what I mean too...

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future_uncertain
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posted June 07, 2005 03:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for future_uncertain     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Great question!

Until I came to LL, I didn't know my first house was Capricorn-- my rising sign is Sag, but the descriptions never felt entirely accurate. My first house is Cap though and I feel like that was the missing link to my confusion.

But I still don't understand this. Are there any specific implications of your asc. being different from your first house?

St. Henri!!!!! Where are you!!!! (You've been AWOL... we've noticed!)

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wilsontc
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posted June 07, 2005 06:04 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yang,

In most house systems, the edge (called the "cusp") of the first house is the Ascendant. Since the beginning of the first house is the same as the Ascendant, they have the same sign. However, there are in a few house systems (called "equal house" systems) this is NOT true, and the first house cusp and Ascendant could be in different signs.

Explaining,

Tim

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future_uncertain
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posted June 07, 2005 10:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for future_uncertain     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi wilsontc.

Thanks for your explanation. Maybe you could help me clarify something. If I use equal house system, my first house is Sag, but placidus gives me Cap.

Do you have a system you prefer? And why?

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wilsontc
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posted June 07, 2005 11:15 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
future,

First of all, I need to correct my previous post: I have been thinking it over and it occurred to me that the equal house system would ALSO have the first house and the Ascendant in the same sign. And even when using a different house system, the measurement for the Ascendant, Midheaven, Descendant (point directly opposite the Ascendant), and Nadir (point directly opposite the Midheaven) remain the same.

As to your question, I use Placidus, because that is the system my astrologer used and the system most of the astrology books I knew used. There are some astrologers who have a strong preference for the Koch house system. I get out of the "which house is it in" issue by using wide orbs (5 degrees) for house cusps when determining which house a planet or point is in.

For those who do not know what an "orb" is, it is the number of degrees on either side of an exact measurement which a planet or point can be and still be considered having the same effect as an exact measurement. For example, a square aspect (defined as two planets or points which are 90 degrees apart) with a 5 degree orb would permit an aspect to be called "square" if it was + or - 5 degrees from a 90 degree aspect. In other words, with a 5 degree orb any aspect between 85 degrees (90 degrees - 5 degrees) and 95 degrees (90 degrees + 5 degrees) would be considered "in orb" of a squre.

Self-correcting,

Tim

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ladya22
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posted June 08, 2005 12:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ladya22     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey All-

Does anyone know what kind of differences this would give the outward persona? Seems that if it is 12th house the traits would be more hidden? And if you had other planets in the 1st house -but not asc. what kind of affect would that have? I have always wanted to know but seems can never find an awswer.

Anyone? Beuller? Bueller?

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wilsontc
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posted June 08, 2005 10:39 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
lady,

Planets in a house indicate a focus on the issues of that house. The 1rst house is about being (also action) and the 12th house is about spirituality (also confusion). So a person with planets in the first house is concerned with how they are (and in the actions they take) and a person with planets in the 12th house is concerned with spirituality (which might be confusing to them). More about the meanings of houses is available here: http://www.geocities.com/wilsontctc

Explaining houses,

Tim

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Yang
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posted June 09, 2005 04:06 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Somehow I am still left where I began
My asc and 1st house have the same degree( according to astro.com)- Leo @ 6 degrees 1' 52"-hope that helps!

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histrionix
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posted June 09, 2005 07:24 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have confusion with the following: sometimes I read Astro articles and explanations, and hear that you have a 'planet rising', but it's different than the ruling planet of your rising sign. What does that mean? I have Cancer rising, but I have Sun and Mars in first house. Does this mean I have Moon, or Sun, or Mars rising?

Also, if you have Sun and Mars in first house, does that add a Leo or Aries quality to your overall personality, or just to your outer ascendant personality?

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cappyme
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posted June 09, 2005 01:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cappyme     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well I use placidus, but my ascendant is in Capricorn which is in first house (obviously) but my sun is also in Capricorn which is like in the 12th house. :P

------------------
Life, n.: A whim of several billion cells to be you for a while.

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wilsontc
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posted June 09, 2005 01:34 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
histrionix,

While it is possible to do chart readings without knowing all these details, it can be interesting to know about the way a chart is constructed. The person themselves is positioned at the center of the chart, the Ascendant represents the farthest east side of the sky, the Descendant represents the farthest west side of the sky, the Midheaven represents the point directly over the person, and the Nadir represents the point directly below the person. The term "rising" refers to the fact that the Sun (and all the other planets moving forwards in the sky) all rise above the horizon from the farthest east side of the sky (Ascendant). So the sign placed on the Ascendant (farthest east side of the sky) is sometimes called the "rising sign". Similarly, planets which are in the 12th house (just above the Ascendant) are sometimes called "rising planets" because this is the first house planets "rise" into...so, for example, a person with "Jupiter rising" has Jupiter in the 12th house.

Whew! That's a LOT of information you don't need for astrology, but it's there and I'm giving it to you because you asked. ;-) The next bit of information should be more practical. The "ruling planet" is the planet that rules the sign rising. So, since Cancer is ruled by the Moon, if you have "Cancer rising" Cancer is the sign on the Ascendant (furthest east side of the chart), and you could look to what the Moon is doing in the chart to understand more about how the Ascendant affects you. Think of this as a "second level" of information. You ALREADY know that, with Cancer (emotions) modifying Ascendant (self), you will tend to be emotional, the position of the Moon (emotions) in the chart will give you ADDITIONAL information about the nature of your emotions.

As to your final question, if you have Sun (self-expression) and Mars (action) focused in the first house (action), then you tend to take actions in being self-expressive. Leo (self-exprssion) and Aries (action) are modifiers of planetary energy, not the energy itself (remember SIGN modifies PLANET focused on HOUSE to keep this straight in your mind). Planets which touch the Ascendant (self) by aspect (energy connections in a chart) add energy to your self-picture, so, for example someone with Cancer (emotions) rising who has Mars (action) conjunct the Ascendant will appear very differently from someone with Cancer rising with Moon (emotions) conjunct Ascendant.

Be careful what you ask for...

For a simpler approach to astrological interpretation, see http://www.geocities.com/wilsontctc

Trying not to be TOO confusing,

Tim

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wilsontc
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posted June 09, 2005 02:01 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
histrionix,

While it is possible to do chart readings without knowing all these details, it can be interesting to know about the way a chart is constructed. The person themselves is positioned at the center of the chart, the Ascendant represents the farthest east side of the sky, the Descendant represents the farthest west side of the sky, the Midheaven represents the point directly over the person, and the Nadir represents the point directly below the person. The term "rising" refers to the fact that the Sun (and all the other planets moving forwards in the sky) all rise above the horizon from the farthest east side of the sky (Ascendant). So the sign placed on the Ascendant (farthest east side of the sky) is sometimes called the "rising sign". Similarly, planets which are in the 12th house (just above the Ascendant) are sometimes called "rising planets" because this is the first house planets "rise" into...so, for example, a person with "Jupiter rising" has Jupiter in the 12th house.

Whew! That's a LOT of information you don't need for astrology, but it's there and I'm giving it to you because you asked. ;-) The next bit of information should be more practical. The "ruling planet" is the planet that rules the sign rising. So, since Cancer is ruled by the Moon, if you have "Cancer rising" Cancer is the sign on the Ascendant (furthest east side of the chart), and you could look to what the Moon is doing in the chart to understand more about how the Ascendant affects you. Think of this as a "second level" of information. You ALREADY know that, with Cancer (emotions) modifying Ascendant (self), you will tend to be emotional, the position of the Moon (emotions) in the chart will give you ADDITIONAL information about the nature of your emotions.

As to your final question, if you have Sun (self-expression) and Mars (action) focused in the first house (action), then you tend to take actions in being self-expressive. Leo (self-exprssion) and Aries (action) are modifiers of planetary energy, not the energy itself (remember SIGN modifies PLANET focused on HOUSE to keep this straight in your mind). Planets which touch the Ascendant (self) by aspect (energy connections in a chart) add energy to your self-picture, so, for example someone with Cancer (emotions) rising who has Mars (action) conjunct the Ascendant will appear very differently from someone with Cancer rising with Moon (emotions) conjunct Ascendant.

Be careful what you ask for...

For a simpler approach to astrological interpretation, see http://www.geocities.com/wilsontctc

Trying not to be TOO confusing,

Tim

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histrionix
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posted June 09, 2005 09:15 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks a heap for the effort! Yes, I have had some confusion for a while as to what a rising planet actually did for your personality. I am always more interested in how aspects translate into character.

In my chart, as you mentioned, according to the Koch system, I have my Sun and Mars in 1st House, and Mars conjunct the Ascendant. The 12th house is Gemini, so I guess Mercury is rising? Does that add a Mercury/Gemini touch to the ascendant personality?

Ascendant, Sun and Mars are in Cancer (both the latter in 1st house), Moon in Sag in 6th house.

Thanks for the info, again.

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wilsontc
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posted June 09, 2005 11:58 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
histrionix,

It is important to realize that a "rising" planet is literally a PLANET in the 12th house. So if you have no planets IN your 12th house, you have no PLANETS rising. The SIGN on the 12th house cusp has nothing to do with "rising" PLANETS.

Clarifying,

Tim

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ladya22
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posted June 10, 2005 02:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ladya22     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Wilsontc-

wow that lots of good info! So since i have Venus, mercury, pluto and uranus (and Vesta too) all in the 12th house, that means all those planets are rising for me? Also my only first house planet is Jupiter in Scorpio? How would that affect my personality?

Great Website btw !!

TIA

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histrionix
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posted June 10, 2005 02:10 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Tim, thanks, gotcha. Got no planets in 12th House Gemini. So no planets rising.

Thanks a heap.

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Lauren Leigh
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posted June 10, 2005 02:18 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
wilsontc - I hardly ever post anymore (I tend to just lurk around the forums instead, lol) but I wanted to thank you for the links, interesting stuff.

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wilsontc
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posted June 10, 2005 10:37 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Lady,

Thanks for the compliment! Correct! Since you have Venus, Mercury, Pluto and Uranus (and Vesta too) all in the 12th house, that means all those planets are rising for you. And, since you have Scorpio (control) modifying Jupiter (expansion) focused in the 1rst house (self), you may have a LARGE need for personal control! Since Scorpio ALSO is about transformation and Jupiter is ALSO about learning, you may also be very interested in self transformation through learning. Astrology is a great way to do that!

Explaining,

Tim

[edited!]

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wilsontc
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posted June 10, 2005 10:39 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Lady,

This should read:
"Since you have Venus, Mercury, Pluto and Uranus (and Vesta too) all in the 12th house, that means all those planets are rising for you."

Self-correcting,

Tim

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pixelpixie
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Posts: 8
From: ON Canada
Registered: Apr 2009

posted June 10, 2005 10:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for pixelpixie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey Tim, nice to meet you!
You are a wealth of information.

Did you know you can edit your posts?
*great for late night drunk posting. but I digress...
Click on 'edit', which is beside 'profile' up above the box of your text there.. and proceed.

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