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Author Topic:   Lemingtyne et al -- Here's Saturn in Libra / Saturn in the 7th House
Azalaksh
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Posts: 982
From: New Brighton, MN, USA
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posted July 04, 2005 06:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Azalaksh     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
For the fullest synthesis of these interps, one should read the Intro and the Sign/House chapters, and then integrate the resulting meanings. Saturn in the Fiery Signs and Houses intro (your 9th) is already posted, so here's the Airy chapter intro. I'll post in two parts.

From Liz Greene's "Saturn - A New Look At An Old Devil":

quote:
Saturn In the Airy Signs and Houses
The element of air is related to the principle of the logical mind, and it is this principle which ultimately differentiates man from the lower kingdoms of nature and allows him to observe himself—that is, to become self-conscious. Because of this exclusively human attribute, it may be observed that the three airy signs form the only trigon which does not incorporate animal symbolism but is expressed through either a human or an inanimate symbol. The other three elements are represented by at least two bestial symbols each. Although Virgo, ruled by a mental planet, is linked with a human symbol, Taurus and Capricorn are represented by animals; and although Sagittarius is connected with a half-human symbol, Aries and Leo are also symbolised by animals. The watery trigon is portrayed completely by creatures from the animal kingdon and is the most instinctual of the elements, relating to the function of feeling. Although we do not yet understand precisely what the mind is from a scientific point of view, or where it is located, or by what laws it functions, we can get some idea of its nature by observation of its behaviour. And we can at least understand that it is mind that permits man to call himself man.
All three airy signs, the houses associated with them, and the planets that rule them deal with one aspect or another of mind and the human need to exchange information with others and with the environment. All living things exchange information with their environment, and this is a biological process common to unicellular creatures as well as to man. But only man analyses his information and is aware of it as information. The ancient symbol for man is the pentagram or five-pointed star, and the number five has always traditionally been associated with both man and with Mercury, the significator of mind. Following this line of thought, we can see a correlation with the fact that five divided into the circle of three hundred and sixty degrees yields the quintile aspect of seventy-two degrees, one which is associated with skill and the possession of an unusual mental capacity—the province of Mercury—and which is also associated with sexual ambiguity—also the province of Mercury who was an androgynous figure in mythology. All of these associations help to illuminate the nature of the airy trigon.
The faculty of detachment, or of dissociation from the ordinary vehicles of life, is apparent only in the element of air. Each is logical, but it is dependent for its function on the matter in which the person is immersed. Water and fire are irrational elements and evaluate and experience life through the feeling nature and the intuition respectively. It would appear that thought is the basis of all manifestation, an idea which is familiar enough to the esotericist but which can only be demonstrated in an empiric way through the behaviour of man who must first conceive of a thing before he can attach emotional value to it and work to produce it in tangible form. We know very little about the real power of thought but are beginning to discover through research that thought, if concentrated, has the power to effect physical changes and may be communicated without benefit of physical implements—a phenomenon we call telepathy. We know as little about the real nature of telepathy as we do about the other "psi" phenomena which appear to be linked to the creative powers of the human mind. The dim outline of a picture is slowly emerging which suggests that mind is an attribute which is very close to our theological definitions of the attributes of deity.
If we consider that the airy signs are connected with the enormous potential of the human mind in its creative aspect, a rather sad fact presents itself: the great majority of people are not able to utilise the potential of this element for they have not yet developed the capacity to think. A person can be born with a natal chart which shows a predominance of planets in air, but this does not necessitate his being able to express these planets in a manner which partakes of the divine nature of the creative mind. What we consider ideas are frequently opinions, and these are not the same thing; this is particularly true of ideas which become ideologies. The faculty of detachment is not often to be met; instead, we may perceive a coldness which is the result of fear, rather than true detachment, or a rigid control of the feeling nature which is based on a terror of its potency. Of all the kingdoms of nature only man aspires to intellectual creativity, and even many men do not aspire so high but limit themselves to physical and emotional concerns. For the man who is trying to polarise himself mentally, and who is attempting to learn the nature of his mental equipment, frustration is far more subtle and less observable than the frustration of physical or emotional expression. If we consider the idea that Saturn always offers an opportunity to develop the function or quality associated with the element in which he is placed—and this refers to either sign or house—then we may consider that Saturn in the airy signs and houses brings about, through frustration of the creative mind and a blocking of the capacity to utilise it as a tool for communication and relating, a finer and stronger capacity for the use of thought as a creative act and as a tool for the integration of the psyche.
Saturn is dignified in Aquarius and exalted in Libra and is at least reasonably comfortable in Gemini. Seriousness, concentration, and stability are considered fitting attributes for the mind, and Saturn in air certainly offers these possibilities. The "scientific mind"—in spite of its dangerous penchant for narrowness and prejudice—is at present fashionable in our society and is responsible for the major technological advances of this century. We tend to place great emphasis on logic and tend to look askance upon the intuitive or mystical approach to life, for the last two thousand years of history have demonstrated amply the dangers of the devotional path. This is one of the more extreme qualities of Saturn in air for when he is unconscious, he is a personification of the objective and scientific intellect in its most separative aspect. Yet these qualities are not truly those of air; they are rather the qualities which result when air is not permitted its natural circulation and synthesis to and fro between minds and between people. The great difficulty with Saturn in air is that he may be accepted in this kind of sterile guise because it is currently considered the apex of normality. He may not be permitted to finish his task of destroying and rebuilding the values of a particular area of life, and the finer uses of his placement in air may never be expressed. Instead there is an ever-present sense of loneliness and isolation, a fear of the irrational elements within oneself, and a fine capacity for concentration and thoroughness which masks a sense of intellectual inadequacy or a feeling of social isolation.
Saturn's primary manner of expression in the unconscious man is through loneliness, fear, and frustration. This may be expressed through the limitations of matter, as is the case with earth, or through denial of the needs of the feeling nature, as is the case with water. When he is placed in air, he is related to mental isolation, and the person with Saturn in an airy sign or house must often struggle with loneliness because he finds it difficult to communicate with others. His thoughts are often of a deep and inquiring kind for his isolation will frequently lead him to question his values; and he is often inept at the kind of light and superficial relating which is commonly attributed to airy personalities. His task is to explore the potentials of the mind so that he can become its master, and this does not permit him easy comradeship with others. We will rarely hear him complain of his loneliness for it is not of the feeling nature, and he does not often express the "neurotic" personality which accompanies emotional frustration. Nor is he unhappy in the ordinary sense of the word for we usually apply this to disappointments of the feelings or the desire nature. He will generally suffer his isolation in silence.
Obviously the understanding and control of the mind are gifts which can only be developed when there is a reasonable degree of mental activity expressed, and a man who has Saturn placed in air must first begin to use his mind before he can begin to make of it a beam of light to shine into the darker areas of his psyche. The presence of Saturn in air on the birth chart, however, would appear to suggest that these stages in growth are fully capable of achievement by the person who must deal with an airy Saturn.

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Azalaksh
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From: New Brighton, MN, USA
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posted July 04, 2005 06:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Azalaksh     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here's part two, in the sign/house:
quote:
Saturn in Libra and the seventh house
Libra is the sign of Saturn's exaltation, and as the concepts of exaltations and falls have stubbornly held their ground in modern astrological interpretation, it is possible that there is a deep and meaningful significance to them and that Saturn's placement in Libra is worthy of a close and careful look.
The seventh house is traditionally that of marriage and the marriage partner as well as that of open enemies. The characteristics which are valued in others, and which are sought in a partner, are symbolised by this house as well as the characteristics which are possessed by our enemies and through which we are vulnerable to opposition. In the seventh house the perfect match is represented, the attributes which, when added to the components of the personality of the individual, will round him out and make him whole. The situations which the person is likely to attract in marriage are also represented here and some indication of what kind of partner the person himself is likely to be.
We have for a long time accepted a rather superficial interpretation for Libra and its mundane house, and the psychological mechanism of projection is most clearly and obviously displayed by the traditional meaning assigned to this house of the "other." For the other is in the end within oneself, and it is a balance between the male and female halves of the man's own psyche which stands behind his balance with a marriage partner. We seek in others what we are not able to express consciously ourselves; and we also hate in others what we are not able to express. No perfect match with another can create inner wholeness. Marriage as it is reflected by the seventh house is a reality only in proportion to the inner integration of the individual; otherwise, it is a charade and although this view is apparently a cynical or depressive one, it is possible that it is in fact hopeful because it suggests the possibility of something better than what we see around us. The basic psychological mechanism of projection of the unconscious, transexual half of the psyche—termed by Jung the anima in men and the animus in women—is intimately connected with the qualities of the marriage partner as they are evidenced by the seventh house.
When Saturn is in the seventh house, the opportunity for an inner integration or balancing of opposites is offered, for it is unlikely that the individual will find the qualities he seeks happily expressed by a partner. It is more likely that he will attract to himself situations which involve some degree of pain, isolation, rejection, and disappointment until he begins to reorient himself toward an inner search. This placement is analagous to the coniunctio or mystical marriage of alchemy, which in psychological terms suggests an inner integration which results in a new centre for the psyche and new balance and meaning in life. In alchemical symbolism this marriage is always accompanied by darkness and death previous to the distillation of the elixir, and the darkness which often accompanies a seventh house Saturn is matched only by the brilliance of the gold which is also promised.
The most basic interpretation of Saturn in the seventh house is sorrow, difficulty, or constriction in marriage or other close relationships. Generally these sorrows appear to be the hand of external fate and often do not seem to be connected with any fault in the individual himself. Saturn in this house is frequently in his most elaborate disguise because his action is so completely externalised. It always seems to be the other person's fault. This is characteristic of seventh house planets, and good or bad luck, happiness or unhappiness, appear to come through the agency of the partner or the opponent. We are accustomed to interpreting this house as a symbol of the effects of others upon us without considering that these effects are the direct result of our own inner needs and conflicts projected outward upon others. It is not wholly the partner's shortcomings that are responsible when Saturn in the seventh house does not foster a union of unmitigated bliss.
The restrictions of a seventh house Saturn are often of a very obvious sort. Commonly isolation or aloneness is one sort of restriction. We may also see the older, more serious partner who, although stable and faithful and perhaps financially solvent as well, dampens and constricts the individual's expression because he does not understand or appreciate his partner's thoughts and dreams. The partner may be ailing or dependent in some way through illness or monetary obligations, thereby becoming a responsibility rather than a companion. Sometimes he is possessive and demanding, or he may be a disappointment simply because he is incompatible, or abandons the individual, or causes hurt through emotional or physical infidelity. In situations of this kind we are accustomed to assuming that it is the person's bad luck in the choice of a mate. Everything is usually all right at the beginning. It all seems to happen later, after the knot is tied. We may then hear the familiar cry, "I never realised when I met him..."
There is much that we know about others at the first moment of contact for we are as sensitive to the subliminal signals given in a thousand subtle ways by our fellows as the lower kingdoms of nature are to the subtle signals of their environment. But these are intuitive realisations, and they are not often welcome if the inner needs contradict the conscious ideal of what a mate should be. It is invariably the inner needs which are expressed, and which are answered, for like attracts like. The fact that someone later seems to be different is not due to bad luck but to a deliberate inner choice which was made at the very beginning. Once again it is wise to assume some responsibility where Saturn is concerned for the awareness of these inner needs and the honest sharing of them is very likely a prerequisite for happy and productive union when Saturn is found in the seventh house. Although it may at first seem difficult to understand why an individual would choose, consciously or unconsciously, a partner who will hurt, disappoint, or limit him, it is not so difficult to understand that a man may be at war with himself and be compelled by unconscious motives of which he is unaware. His choice of a partner is often a reflection of this war.
The consistent thread which runs through the many expressions of Saturn in the seventh house seems to be the successful avoidance of a relationship which might involve real union on all levels instead of merely the physical or emotional. The dangers of dependency or vulnerability are carefully sidestepped by Saturn's action although the man may be unaware that he is doing this on a conscious level. Seen from the viewpoint of the detached observer, relationships formed with a Saturnian influence are often "safe" in that the partner is himself dependent, weak, needful, and unable to form any kind of threat or support to the individual. The partner may be cold or unfaithful or incapable of establishing a meaningful relationship himself, and this is a neat mechanism for avoiding the effort and responsibility of a fully conscious union while having a scapegoat on whom the failure of the union may be blamed. Saturn in the seventh house does not necessarily describe the failure of marriage because of the failure of the partner; but it often appears this way to the conscious eye of the individual who must project his own inaccessability onto someone else.
From the point of view of the personality, this mechanism appears to be a depressing one for it would appear that there is something lying deep within the individual's psyche which will. not permit him happiness in union. This is true but is only depressing when seen out of context. What is really implied is that happiness in union is not possible unless the union is based upon values other than the ordinary superficial ones of appearance, financial status, emotional dependency, and social pressure; for these causes carry with them inevitably the seeds of failure if Saturn is in the seventh house. He often places great emphasis on the formal structure of marriage while managing to avoid the inner exchange of which the formal structure is the symbol. Saturn in the seventh house tends to symbolise a rather painful arrangement because of the ensuing loneliness. But in the end the thing which is sought is inner integration, an inner marriage, and inner wholeness rather than dependency upon another person for the centre of one's psychic life. From the point of view of the self, the total psyche rather than of the personality, Saturn placed here offers a great opportunity. There is no suggestion of the necessity of a lonely life; there is rather the inner push to understand the deeper levels of union, the psychic fact of which marriage is a symbol, and the kind of true relationship which stems from two people who have centres of their own and are therefore free consciously to choose.
Patterns of hurt and rejection are common with Saturn in the seventh house. There is often much talk of giving for Saturn often plays the martyr; yet it is frequently found that the individual who complains the most about having given so much with so little reward has in reality given little that does not have a condition attached. He is frightened of being alone yet he is equally frightened that he will be hurt; so he tries to follow both these impulses and establishes relationships into which his inner self does not enter. Often Saturn will overcompensate, and instead of being the one who is consistently abandoned, he will play the Don Juan figure—of either sex—and give the impression of being hard, callous, and unfeeling. This is very rarely the true inner nature of Saturn, but it is one of his most frequent masks. He is more likely morbidly sensitive underneath his armour so he will seek safety rather than the possible pain of a union which might end in his rejection. Sacrificing love for safety, which he often calls duty, he may believe that he has made an advantageous choice and then finds he cannot extricate himself when the enormity of his sacrifice becomes clear to him. The man with Saturn in the seventh house who attempts to make partnership a material affair generally finds that he must pay a higher price than he intended. This is often the case when Saturn's inclination toward truth and dispelling of illusory values is blocked. It is not necessary to postulate the idea of hell after death when one has glimpsed the inner hell of loneliness which is often the companion of this attempt to distort Saturn's energies.
Saturn in an angular house suggests that events, and direct contacts with others, are involved in the working out of the process of inner discovery. In the seventh this is apparent in that the marriage partner becomes either a source of suffering or a source of great opportunity for mutual growth. This choice is free to the individual, but he must first realise that he has a choice; if he does not, it is not his bad karma which has brought him suffering but simply ignorance.
Would love to have your thoughts on the interps!

'Zala

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posted July 04, 2005 06:05 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Aza can u help me?


Someone I know has there saturn return coming also. His saturn is in leo. It will be going into his 6th house. I think.


Jan 3, 1976
New York, New York
9:00am

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Azalaksh
Knowflake

Posts: 982
From: New Brighton, MN, USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted July 04, 2005 06:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Azalaksh     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
TP ~

The interps above are for natal placements, I haven't put up transiting Saturn yet (still working on the scans). What house is his natal Saturn/Leo in?

Oh I guess, DUH on my part, returning to home base, not thinking very clearly tonite...

'Z

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posted July 04, 2005 06:36 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
House 6
Saturn in Leo

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posted July 05, 2005 11:12 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
*Bump!

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Azalaksh
Knowflake

Posts: 982
From: New Brighton, MN, USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted July 05, 2005 11:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Azalaksh     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Hang in there kiddo, I'll try to get to it when I get home from work tonite!
We need to get Dragon-Man to repost your chart so I can see where the Impatience Factor comes from, or is it just a "New York Minute" thing?!?

'Zala

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