posted September 23, 2005 03:29 AM              

His Scorpio Sun is in 12th house, he also has Neptune in Scorp and Merc. His Venus is in Sag, his Mars and Jupiter in Libra.....Pluto in Virgo..

I can give more detailsof his chart if needed.

I have a high regard for him....he is a highly respected peson!!

This guy is in his 40s.......is he hiding from himself ????

Thanks friends...

xxx

posted September 23, 2005 06:41 AM              

His sun is in the 12th and planets in the 12th tend to hide. Maybe he's unaware of his scorpio side..or maybe he's aware but he doesn't want to display it.

Also I read on a different thread that there's a book about Jupiter signs, saying that people act like their Jupiter quite a bit. It isn't a totally impossible theory..because mine is in Pisces and conj Mercury/Vesta close to MC ..and I think it's pretty important in my chart. I can be very Piscean, overly sensitive at times

If Scorpio is his 12th and his Mars/Jup are in Libra in the 1st, that Libra side could be what he IS aware of most..This doesn't mean he isn't scorpio-like or deep or intense but he might either not want to see it and hide it from himself or actually not be aware of it on a conscious level.

Planets close to Asc change the way someone comes accross. With Mars and Jupiter there.. sag and aries and libra all come to mind.

My step dad is a Cancer with mars on his Asc in Leo. That martian - arieslike and leo-like behaviour is very dominant in his personality, before people get to know him well..and if someone read out (I *have* done this) an interpretation of Cancer being sensitive and motherly etc ..to him, he'd absolutely deny it. It'd hurt his mars in the 1st ego, for anyone to see that..because I think he wants to come accross as firey and in charge and on top of things. But My mum (who is a Leo lols) knows better..she can see right through him lol and he IS a softie on the inside..

posted September 23, 2005 04:03 PM              

Scorpio is very self-protecting. I say that over and over again. Scorpio will lie flat to your face if it needs to. It'll lie to itself as well. Just be empathetic - Scorpio is a highly psychically aware sign, and like all water signs, it is deeply sensitive. Those depths can be very scary, especially with a Scorpio's ability to be aware on an intuitive level. This would be accentuated by the 12th house as well. Think about how it'd feel if, innerwardly, you felt like your soul was being dangled over a dark abyss - you're aware of how depth that abyss is, but you really can't see anything, just sense that it's there and you could at any moment be engulfed by it. That's a bit what I mean by "psychically aware." He's probably very aware of many things, but doesn't understand them - espeically for men, this is difficult. Also since he's a man, he may feel that if he can't understand or articulate it, he's not truly aware of it. Men just aren't as comfortable living by their intuition as women are, and this can be reinforced by culture and upbringing (he may have been harshly criticized or berated as a child for his intutiiveness as well). It can make some guys very uneasy if they have to live like that, so it's no surprise if at times there's esacapism into denial.

Speaking of escapism and denial, that's Pisces and the 12th house for ya! LOL. I am guessing that his moon is int he 5th? If so, it's very vulnerable there - there's a great need of approval, acceptence and encouragement with a 5th house moon. It's a very needy placement,espeically in Pisces, and any form of rejection can be very devestating to the native's sense of self worth. So it's likely this individual is deeply insecure on a subconscious level, and may have been psychologically wounded at some point in his early life. With a 5th house Pisces moon AND a 12th house Scorpio Sun, he would have been extremely vulnerable as a child, and possible injured or taken advantage of in some way. This kind of self-denial may have evolved as a psychological coping machinism.

Another coping machinism could bethat he does prefer to see his Libra side in himself more, as Lauren suggested. Libra is an air sign, more detached and more resilient. This planet may represent what he wishes he could be, especially if his water side is deeply injured or inhibited. That kind of inner conflict of course would also trigger his Scorpion self-protectiveness, so he'll show you his Libra side (or try to) to distrtact you from the parts of himself he feels are more vulnerable.

And part of it may simply be a lack of self-awareness. His Venus is in Sag, a placement that tends to be a little oblivious about how the inative is projecting themselves to others. They think they're projecting one thing, while everyone else sees something else. He may asincerely feel that he's "not that deep" cos , frankly, Sag Venus can be a little shallow. However, I suspect again his self-defensiveness is coming into play here. I know when I am insecure around somone, I'll let them see my Gem Venus (a placement that can be a little shallow too) before I'd let them see my Pisces moon, because you can crush my moon, whereas, things just bounce off my Venus. Feigned shallowness can also be a coping machinism, and he may not even realize he's doing it.

I also am suspicious that he may be doing these things because water types are very intuitive about their own energies, even when they are not that consciously aware of them. They inutuively know how to use them in many ways, like creatively, psychically, spiritually, but also as a form of passive-agression or self-defense. So that he could resort to projecting energies of other planets to obscure or protect his more vulnerable Sun and moon, even if he has no idea that's what he's doing, is very probable.

Lastly, because his ASC is in Scorpio, does that mean his 12th is actually ruled by Libra? If so, his Sun's intercepted in the 12th, which makes it twice as hard for this Sunt o express itself, That could be a contributing factor.

posted September 23, 2005 05:07 PM              

Accept him for who he is. If there is more to him then he will be more comfortable revealing this to trusted people in his own time and then - who knows the chart may reveal itself to be right afterall.

posted September 23, 2005 06:19 PM              

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Gemini sun, Cancer rising, mercury in Gemini, moon in Taurus *29, venus in Taurus, mars in Libra

"You must live in the infinite blackness that exists when I close my eyes. I see you when I fall asleep, I see you when I dream."

posted September 23, 2005 07:21 PM              

Thanks everyone else guys, you are so helpful, and as Acoustic says i am not trying to change this guy, he is my teacher, a wonderful man.......but am just alittle intrigued thats all.....and I didnt post to be told to accept him as he is......what other choice do I have........he is whoever he is.....but theres no harm in asking ......is there ??

Thanks again guys, you are the best !!!

xxx

posted September 24, 2005 10:32 AM              

I obviously misunderstood somehow, and Im still not sure I understand it now. I interpreted that as a suggestion that he is not being himself.

posted September 24, 2005 03:06 PM              

You are not being antagonistic at all......just a misunderstanding as you say.......forgive me if I sounded a bit "heavy", didnt mean to, sorry!

Thanks for your time and effort, appreciate your reply..

LOve

posted September 25, 2005 12:00 AM              

On the other hand Scorpios don't share too much of themselves. I sometimes think of them like undercover agents, playing the easygoing game and keeping their very intense inner life to themselves.

posted September 25, 2005 12:28 AM              

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Some people just don't know themselves, they have a certain idea and fail to see what's obvious for everyone else (aren't we all like that?)

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That rarely happens from what I've seen. Usually people don't agree on their opinion about someone. There are as many opinions as there are people in the world..so when you say "something that is obvious for everyone else" I'm not so sure that works in practice..or it rarely does anyways in my experience.

And I also think, at the end of the day..no matter what you project to others, no matter how one person or the other may see you or perceive you..that is subjective and it's merely THEIR perception. It isn't necessarily realistic.

I think most people DO know themselves better than anyone else could ever know them..because you're IN your body.. you have been there your entire life and you're aware of every experience you've ever had (for as long as you can remember)..NOONE else has that kind of information about you to work with when they form an opinion. Their opinion is based on a piece of the puzzle that is your life.. The piece they took part in or saw..

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This has been my mantra on this site many times - people first astrology second. Dont try to make him fit his chart or read too much into it. Astrology fascinates me but its just a tool to discover more about people and gain some insight but it isnt an 'absolute' blueprint of someones DNA!!
Accept him for who he is. If there is more to him then he will be more comfortable revealing this to trusted people in his own time and then - who knows the chart may reveal itself to be right afterall.

xxx

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SoulSista, I agree with what you said 100%.. I like theorizing and talking about certain possibilities when it comes to astro even when realistically I KNOW that people are people and obviously their character won't always fit their chart.. Astrology isn't set in stone by any means

posted September 25, 2005 01:03 AM              

People who don't perceive them that way at all.

If you mean it in a "public opinion" sort of way (which in a chart might have to do with the MC - the way the world at large "sees" you).. this could make sense in a context where the person is famous..and the public as a whole could have a certain opinion of them BUT that opinion is usually created by the media..and it isn't always a good barometer to go on when assessing how the people in society *actually* perceive this person (individualy)..and how the person they are judging actually IS (personality wise)

It's very subjective. As an example someone's familly (this is happening to my best friend) could see them as lazy, unnerving, overly argumentative etc.. She's moved out of home ages ago and has never been on good terms with most of her family. On the other hand, her other friends and I, don't see her as this AT ALL. She's the nicest person in the world from my point of view. She has had a job since she was 15 and she's always been working plus studying so she isn't "lazy" either..

I guess I just don't like people "judging" in the first place.. and assuming that because THEY or the small circle they are in (a family circle for instance) HAVE a certain opinion about someone that was formed through gossip and talking about the person.. that this opinion IS accurate and that if the person doesn't agree, well then they obviously don't know *themselves*

So like I said it's very subjective. You don't know whether someone knows themselves or not and you don't know whether you or the group you are in knows them better than they know themselves because really all anyone can ever have is an opinion and it isn't "fact".

One thing I would agree with though, and it's similar to what you are saying..is that every person you come in contact with has the ability to bring out a certain part in you or reflect back at you a certain part of yourself..so you DO learn more about yourself through interaction with other people.. but not beause they "see your shadow", more so because of the way you react towards them.. they see the part OF YOU that they -bring out-, action/reaction..

posted September 25, 2005 01:28 AM              

quote:

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just my onion

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i dont have an onion

i want one too.

posted September 25, 2005 01:51 AM            

For what you said to be true all people would have to be very introspective, and in tune with themselves. Lots and lots of people aren't. For most people it's takes quite a long time to figure themselves out.

People's perception of you may vary by person, but not to extreme degrees typically. For instance, you may have one person who likes you, and another person who doesn't, but both may acknowledge the same tendencies whether good or bad. Whether a person likes another or not is often a judgment of the motivation behind the actions, not the actions themselves. So where two people may witness the same thing, one can see it coming from an honorable motivation, and another can see it as coming from a dishonorable motivation. Therefore the majority's perception is generally going to be right, because both the friends and foes can see the same actions. A person's own personality will color what they have to say when describing another person, but amongst a group of people talking about the same person you'll find common themes.

posted September 25, 2005 11:51 AM              

However, when asked or confronted they claim they don't do those things, because they're not conscious. (They'll probably say that others do that, because we project our shadow).

posted September 25, 2005 02:42 PM            

My post just looks weird, because a few more posts were added before I finished writing.

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posted September 25, 2005 02:59 PM              

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I was agreeing with you Pop. 100%.

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