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Author Topic:   cappyme -- your Saturn
Azalaksh
Knowflake

Posts: 982
From: New Brighton, MN, USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted November 06, 2005 08:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Azalaksh     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi cappyme ~

Here's that Liz Greene stuff for you. It's going to take some heavy-duty reading and synthesis/integration to pick thru it all for what resonates for you, but I like her writing and interps so much that it motivates me to dig deeper!!

The following is what I'll post, in four parts:
Saturn in the Earthy Signs (and Houses)
Saturn in the Fiery (Signs and) Houses
Saturn in Capricorn (and the 10th House)
Saturn in (Aries and) the 1st House

So, from "Saturn, A New Look At An Old Devil"

quote:
Saturn in the earthy signs and houses

The element of earth is related to the plane of matter in which we all consciously function and pertains to those areas of life where one's efforts, and mistakes, yield tangible results and require tangible tools. Earth is considered a simple element, and it is generally associated with money, resources, security, work, service, and achievement in one's profession. Earth may also be related to the psychological function of sensation; which means that through this function an individual's perception of reality is based on that which he experiences through his five senses and through the use of his concrete or rational mind. It may be assumed from this that there is little mystery about the kind of frustration which ensues from Saturn's placement in earth, and it is here also that the typically Capricornian qualities of perseverance, thrift, caution, and self-discipline are thought to provide the most obvious solution to Saturnian problems.
Earth is not, however, as simple as it is generally considered to be in our basic textbooks. This element has been the unfortunate victim of a body of popular opinion which suggests that matter, or the materialistic view of life, is in contradiction to, or exclusive of, spirit or the spiritualistic view of life. Those unfortunate souls who are predominantly earthy in chart makeup through Sun, Moon, Ascendant, or a stellium of earthy planets are considered in some vague and obscure fashion to be not quite as "evolved" as those coming under the other, more colourful, elements. Because the earthy temperament is concerned with the laws and workings of the physical plane and attempts to direct its creative energy and effort toward the understanding and control of that plane, this temperament is considered materialistic and therefore lacking in vision.
We may often obtain a good view of inner psychic reality from a study of man's myths and of the symbols he chooses to describe his various concepts of his gods. Through these symbols we express what we inwardly value as truth whether or not this is part of a prevailing popular conception of truth. We have chosen to place the birthdate of Jesus under Capricorn, the densest of the earth signs and the most ambitious in the worldly sense, although there is no historical evidence that this birthdate is appropriate. We have also chosen to place the birthdate of Mary at precisely fifteen degrees of Virgo, that most mundane and critical of signs. We also celebrate the birthdate of the Buddha under Taurus, that slowest and most inflexible of signs. The entire esoteric concept of initiation is connected with Capricorn specifically and the earth signs in general because the initiate has not earned his initiation until he is able to apply the higher consciousness he has discovered to the body and the environment in which he functions as a personality. Only when the physical world is made a fitting garment or symbol of the inner spirit is his task complete. The mysteries of the duality of spirit and matter have occupied the thoughts of occultists and mystics throughout the ages, and alchemy and astrology in the form we know them were both outgrowths of this attempt to understand spirit in terms of matter through the law of correspondences. The various myths and motifs which are connected with the symbol of Saturn, from Pan through Satan and Lucifer to the prima materia or "Mercurius Senex" of the alchemists, from the serpent in the Garden to the Hermit of the Tarot deck, should be sufficient to indicate that there is more to earth than meets the eye. And finally we must consider that we exist on the earth itself,. and that we are now beyond doubt demonstrated to be intricately connected through the "etheric" or energy field around us to every other kingdom of nature. There is much that we do not understand about the nature of matter. It may be that when we are told in esoteric literature that earth is the final test of initiation for man, there is also an equally valid rational or scientific law which describes the same truth—but we do not possess it yet.
Saturn in the earthy signs and houses pertains, on the surface, to those problems and limitations which affect an individual through his bodily comfort, his ability to support and sustain himself, his capacity to find meaningful work which allows him a share in the ordering of his environment, and his ability to achieve responsibility or authority in those areas where he has shown competence and skill. This is the simplest interpretation of Saturn in earth, and it will generally be found that this interpretation is valid. It is unfortunate that we are given in the Old Testament the inference that man was driven to labour as a result of original sin for we no longer believe that work can be a creative act. Even God, according to the same document, worked for six days to create the world. There is a basic need in each man to feel himself useful, and this is connected with what is called "group consciousness"—the sensing of a unity which implies individual responsibility and the need for a contribution, according to ability, to the whole. This group consciousness has nothing to do with enforced contribution or with mass consciousness where the individual has no meaning in himself. There is also a basic need in man to know that he has earned through his labours something permanent which is his unique accomplishment or possession. By it he establishes a sense of his worth to the group. This "something permanent" may be actual material reward. It may also be more abstruse: standards, values, talent, honour, service. Commerce and trade are as valid a form of communication between people as the written and spoken word, and money, as well as being a symbol of emotional independence, may also be a symbol of individual worth and of skills and services which are offered to others. Consequently, when we look to mythology, we find that Mercury, among his many rulerships, was the god of merchants as well as being the divine messenger, and presided in his inimitably suave fashion over the business deal.
It is possible that Saturn in one of the earthy signs or houses offers an opportunity to learn about the deeper meaning of this element since the solution to the frustrations which he symbolises when placed in earth rarely comes about through the application of earthy tools. It would appear that the other three elements must be understood and integrated to form a tool effective enough to influence the apparent dead weight of earth and alleviate the pain of thwarted instinct.


'Zala

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Azalaksh
Knowflake

Posts: 982
From: New Brighton, MN, USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted November 06, 2005 08:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Azalaksh     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Saturn in the fiery signs and houses
The element of fire is related to the function of the intuition and is often linked with spirit, energy, and the initial source of life and consciousness. This rather exalted conception of fire may be considered too lofty for our more personalised examples of Arien aggression, Leonian pride and autocracy, and Sagittarian irresponsibility. However unsavoury our individual examples may be, all three fire signs tend to possess an innate consciousness of their individuality and often have limitless vitality, self-confidence, and enthusiasm which stems not from any mundane accomplishment but from an intuitive perception of the worth of the self. Earth expresses confidence when it has acquired mastery over matter, and water expresses confidence when it has established meaningful emotional bonds. Air expresses confidence through the exchange and development of ideas. But the fiery temperament needs no further justification than its existence for the innate belief that life is essentially meaningful and that man deserves the best from it.
The sense of inner purpose or meaning, which we tend to call the urge for self-expression without fully understanding what self we are speaking of, underlies the behaviour and outlook of all three fiery signs and houses. Physical man's primary need is food and sustenance, but the symbolism of fire suggests that something must purposefully decide to express as physical man in the first place. It is this "something” or self which the fiery individual knows himself to be; and the needs of the body are to him secondary—as is literally demonstrated in the second house.
Fire is not a difficult element to understand if we consider the concept of a total self which possesses will and purpose and of which the conscious personality is only a fragment. This is both a psychological and an esoteric postulate although psychology politely avoids the use of the word "soul" except in a limited sense. We may see the expression of this fiery self in a more personal and human way through the urge to explore and conquer as it is displayed by Aries, the urge to create and to love as it is displayed by Leo, and the urge to expand and understand as it is displayed by Sagittarius. In each of these signs there is a deep sense of purpose and an innate acceptance of the fact that the ordinary arenas of life—body, feelings, and mind—exist solely for the self-expressive urges of the creative self. All the world is to the fiery trigon indeed a stage to be explored, acted upon, understood, and loved, and, when necessary, destroyed so that new forms may be built. For there is value only in the meaning, and it is the meaning which is always sought in every experience.
Naturally there is a side to this energy which is not appealing to other kinds of temperaments, particularly the earthy temperament which expresses great accuracy of observation and appreciation of form but is often unable to find the meaning for the form. Fire may appear to be egotistical and self-aggrandising, and fiery individuals often are. This kind of man may intuitively know that he is a god, but he is inclined to forget that everybody else is as well. Most of the shortcomings of this type of temperament stem from the man's insensitivity to the finer details of life, and the feelings of other people are frequently part of these finer details. For this reason Jung places intuition and sensation at opposite ends of the axis of perception for one relates to the purpose of a thing or an experience and the other relates to the appearance of that thing or experience. Fire perpetually seeks purpose and generally finds it although he often lacks appreciation of the myriad of beautiful forms in which the purpose is couched. He is naturally first concerned with the purpose of his own life.
Saturn in the fiery signs or houses tends to suggest a barrier between the conscious personality and the intuitive perception of the self as it ordinarily is experienced by fire. This often precipitates a loss of the sense of one's innate purpose and significance in the broader context of life. Saturn in fire may appear to produce problems which are more philosophical than real in nature, but it should be remembered that Saturn in any element brings out the importance of understanding and experiencing the meaning and sphere of that element. To the person with Saturn in a fiery sign or house, the consciousness of the self is a tremendously important issue although he may not verbalise his need in such terminology. Often compulsive self-centredness is a by-product of this frustration of and search for meaning and purpose. But it is not that there is too much ego in the colloquial sense of this term. The individual is not selfish in the way that we popularly refer in our tirades to those people who do not do what we want. There is in fact too little Ego, and this loss of contact with the centre of the psyche tends to rob the individual of his confidence in life. He will often mask this loss with an exaggerated sense of his own importance for he has nothing else. Saturn is in his fall in Aries and in detriment in Leo for he does not initially get on well with the element of fire.
It is easy enough to see Saturn in the role of the Lord of Karma, but to perceive him merely as an instrument of suffering and the payment of debts is only a possible part of the picture. If he is seen as a motive, leading to a process which results in growth, then it is easier to comprehend the reason for his apparent restrictions in any area of life. The sense of despair and feeling of insignificance which often accompanies Saturn's placement in fire may be viewed as bad karma or the penalty for too many lives of self-aggrandisement or power, but this interpretation is not of much use for the person who experiences the crushing feeling of purposelessness. If it is instead seen as a challenge, where,the individual can through effort and the development of the intuitive faculty begin to apprehend his true nature and his true role in relation to the group and to life in general, accompanied by the destruction or elimination of those values which are no longer of use or which are based on illusion, then he can make use of his opportunity and develop that aspect of his temperament which, symbolically, will yield the alchemical gold.
The Sun is exalted in the sign of Saturn's fall for the conscious personality is strengthened by its contact with the larger self. The Sun is in dignity in the sign of Saturn's detriment, and Saturn is exalted in the sign of the Sun's fall. These two opponents, who sometimes take the guise of God and the Devil, perpetually circle each other about the ring whether they are in actual aspect on the birth chart or not. They are two faces of the same basic principle, and in the individual's psychology they are related to the conscious personality and the shadow or unconscious personality. The Sun's face looks outward to the world while Saturn's two faces look both toward the Sun and downward toward the darkness of the collective unconscious of the race. Saturn placed in the fiery signs or houses suggests another facet of this perpetual conflict which is not really a conflict, for Mars and Jupiter, the two fiery planets, are in the end more specialised suns.
Saturn's effects in the fiery signs and houses may aptly be described as "spiritual constipation" which is observable in ordinary life as a lack of spontanaeity and self-expression, lack of vitality and inner confidence, and a feeling of purposelessness. The three basic qualities of will or purpose, love, and intelligence which are esoterically considered as the attributes of deity may also be considered basic attributes of man's psyche. Jung called the factor of love Eros and the factor of intelligent activity Logos; and he believed that the will was a third factor which could be utilised to direct the energies of the other two. We have here a rough psychological analogy to the Trinity, both Christian and Hindu, which latter expresses these same attributes as Brahma the Creator, Vishnu the Preserver, and Shiva the Destroyer. In Aries, Leo, and Sagittarius we see yet another symbolic correlation to these three basic kinds of energy for these three fiery signs are the simplest representations of the astrological qualities. It may then be suggested that Saturn in Aries or the first house is connected with the understanding and development of the will or sense of purposeful activity; Saturn in Leo or the fifth house is connected with the understanding and development of creativity or sense of purposeful love; and Saturn in Sagittarius or the ninth house is connected with the understanding and development of intuitive perception and wisdom. These may appear to be abstruse definitions of Saturn in fire, but they are a fitting introduction to a symbol which suggests the opportunity for the development of an intuitive understanding of the purpose of one's life.
'Z

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Azalaksh
Knowflake

Posts: 982
From: New Brighton, MN, USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted November 06, 2005 08:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Azalaksh     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Saturn in Capricorn and the tenth house
The tenth house is Saturn's own, and in Capricorn he is dignified so we may therefore expect a "purer" manifestation of Saturn both in an ordinary and a more esoteric sense. This certainly seems to be true from the mundane point of view as the tenth house is traditionally associated with achievement, honor, ambition, and authority, and the cusp of the tenth house by the quadrant systems—the midheaven—is symbolic of the image which one projects outward to society as well as the image which is held inwardly by the person of his "role" in life. It may be assumed that Saturn in the tenth house refers to limitations, delays, and difficulties in the achievement of one's goals and in the successful expression of the self outward to the group as well as intense ambition—frequently unconscious—and a determination to succeed whatever the cost.
This is the interpretation generally given to Saturn in his own house and sign, and it is generally true as far as it goes. Much information may be obtained from the tenth house about the person's role in society, the way in which he appears to the group, and the purpose he identifies with when he considers his deeper reason for being. Although the precise nature of one's profession is impossible to determine from a birth chart, the lines of least resistance or of likely expression are often suggested, and the tenth house with its occupants and its ruler is one of the best pointers if not to the actual work, then to the inner goal or meaning of that work from the point of view of both the individual and society.
So far so good, and this interpretation of the tenth house is familiar ground to most astrological students. The association of the tenth house to the mother or father is also important, although less frequently stressed, particularly in view of the ambiguity surrounding the fourth-tenth axis. Whichever parent is represented by this house, it would seem to be the one who has had the most to do with shaping the social attitudes and ethics of the individual for these standards are reflected by the tenth house with its connexion with structure, tradition, and exemplary behaviour. It is generally the mother who infuses the child with her social values, partially because it is she who spends the maximum amount of time with the child and has therefore greater access to his apparently unformed mind. For more subtle reasons than this I am inclined to assign the tenth house to the mother. It is no piece of new information that ambition runs later in life in direct proportion to the suppression of identity in early life. By ambition I do not mean the inner need to achieve, which is characteristic of the cardinal signs, but rather the need to prove this achievement to others, which is characteristic of the man who has never been considered an individual in his own right. One has only to look at the uniform history of those who have achieved prominence through personal ambition to recognise the familar pattern of family rejection and isolation. Of course suppression of the individuality does not create ambition by itself to this degree nor does it create success. It is, however, an important component to be reckoned with and follows the psychological law that if psychic energy is denied an outlet in its chosen direction, it will return with doubled force in another, compensatory direction. This is the psychological interpretation of the kind of ambition which is often found concurrent with a tenth house Saturn. The more esoteric interpretation would not contradict this but would suggest that the important factor is the achievement because this is needed to precipitate some kind of change in society, in response to a collective need or following the purpose of the soul or inner self. It is then necessary or reasonable to choose a childhood and a vehicle which will provide the right psychological effects and the subsequent ambition needed for the personality to make the achievement.
The psychological interpretation of this situation postulates a cause-and-effect principle over which the individual has little control. The second interpretation is rather abstruse and is of the nature of an arrangement, filled with purpose, by which the man himself, functioning as a total unit, chooses to fulfill a function needed by the group of which he is a part. It is possible that both these ideas are correct.
The concept of self-determination as it is postulated here is a very ancient one which places the responsibility of the choice of earth plane circumstances in the hands of the self. It is one worth considering with an open mind, whatever the labels are to describe the situation, because it sheds some light on the deepest meaning of Saturn himself. He may be seen, finally, as the instrument or opportunity through which the person comes to understand the nature of his free will. It is certainly evident that those with a prominent tenth house, and particularly with Saturn in this house, often have the role either thrust upon them or seek it assiduously—and these are probably the same thing—of effecting some kind of change in the structure of the group, or of holding authority, or serving as an example of achievement. The inner sense of purpose, drive, and responsibility is often very strong when Saturn is in the tenth house, particularly if he is conjuncting the midheaven. There is frequently a strong sense of fate with regard to the role in life. Often sacrifice is required and a long, arduous process of building and preparation, where the personality with its desire for recognition drives the man on until he has achieved some degree of notice or responsibility. It is generally only later that, as the integration occurs which allows him to understand himself and his inner motivations better, the larger reason begins to emerge as to why he has done all that work. One of Saturn's main characteristics is his duplicity, and one of the characteristic duplicities of the tenth house is that all that an individual accomplishes through it—and this can be great—is apparently done for the satisfaction of his own personal ambition or for the fulfilment of a personal goal or ideal. If the individual identifies with this area of personal ambition, he is likely to see his accomplishment as a means of gaining control over his environment so that it cannot control him—a Saturnian self-defense mechanism on a large scale. When viewed in perspective and from a safe distance, however, it may often be seen that the man has really been working for others; for he will frequently immolate himself, deny himself any spontaneous enjoyment or relaxation, and sacrifice all to the achievement of his goals—goals which have a very brief life-span, being a reflection of the life-span of the individual. The effects may in the end be historical ones, and even in a small area the person who is expressing to the fullest his tenth house Saturn may create long-lasting changes in the structure or organisation of his particular corner of society. It is only when he realises the nature and meaning of his work on a deeper level, and when he begins to cooperate consciously with his own inner blueprint, that he can truly enjoy the fruits of his labour.
Saturn in the tenth house is generally considered to symbolise ambition, a slow climb to power with many setbacks and delays, and, if he is afflicted, a subsequent fall from power. The overused examples of Hitler and Napoleon are usually quoted to demonstrate this pattern, which certainly applies to them both—along with the emotionally impoverished childhood. There are, however, many people with Saturn in the tenth house who never attempt to conquer the world; many of these are women who have never attempted to conquer anything more vast than the kitchen sink. This does not negate the meaning generally given to Saturn in the tenth; but his penchant for overcompensation and for projection of values onto another person must be considered. We must also consider the fact that the chart can only map out a series of potential developments, but the individual must be able to meet the challenge of these developments if they are to express in his life.
It is of interest to consider the relation of the tenth house to the mother for the development of the potential of Saturn in the tenth often sticks here. She is usually the dominant parent when this placement of Saturn occurs although this may be because of the death
or absence of the father rather than a temperamental bias. This dominance may be of an obvious kind and may be expressed in stern, authoritative behaviour which is lacking in warmth or empathy. There is often a preoccupation with rules of conduct, propriety, and what the neighbours think, and an emphasis on material rather than emotional values. The dominance of the mother may equally often be reflected in that kind of instinctual woman who carries an unconscious and powerful ego drive beneath an apparently passive exterior. Sometimes the mother is a burden because of ill-health or dies young. In all these situations the seed is sown for a powerful influence on the psychic level which must be dealt with by the individual before he is able to express his full potential. He must symbolically cut the emotional umbilical cord, which generally remains well into adulthood.
There is a rather disturbing frequency of tenth house Saturns among the charts of homosexual men. This does not of course imply that Saturn in the tenth house causes homosexuality, and we are moreover not dealing with a strictly cause-and-effect principle but rather with an arrangement of circumstances which contain a purposive direction; however, if we relate the tenth house to the mother, then it is conceivable that some difficulty in relating to women may be one of the by-products of the rather powerful mother figure suggested by a tenth house Saturn. Difficulty with women can, of course, express through many forms of behaviour only one of which is homosexuality.
Emotional rejection, or a suppression of the will or identity, by the mother, is common with this placement, and the man who has experienced this in childhood may find that he does not trust women later in life. A woman with a tenth house Saturn may have equally serious obstacles to overcome for women must learn from their mothers the means and ways of femininity, and if a mother's nature is symbolised by Saturn, it is unlikely that the feminine principle will be the primary thing expressed. It will more likely be power. To this a woman may react by becoming feminine in the socially acceptable way, saying the right things and cooking the right meals, and simultaneously attempting to live a frustrated need for self-expression through her husband or lover. Or she may become consciously aggressive herself and reject the feminine principle within her own psyche. In all of these cases the first job confronting the individual who seeks to understand the inner potential of Saturn in the tenth house is a coming to terms with the mother and a reevaluation of the male and female roles. Although the fourth and tenth houses are rarely considered when problems of a sexual nature are considered, they do in fact have great bearing, indirectly, on the area of masculine and feminine roles.
An intense self-consciousness and great sensitivity to public opinion are common reflections of Saturn in the tenth house, as well as a fear of failure and a propensity to attract situations which are publicly embarrassing in some way. These expressions are all connected with a basic sense of inadequacy. Dealing with Saturn in the tenth house, where he displays some purely Saturnian qualities in the most difficult sense before he begins to yield his gold, requires considerable self-honesty. It is, however, difficult to achieve objectivity in questions which deal with male and female roles and equally difficult to be detached when considering one's mother. A considerable amount of sentimentality must be waded through on the subject of motherhood and many centuries of rigid sexual roles which have taken their toll on the collective human psyche.
Sensitivity to one's image is the next step on the ladder, and Saturn is inclined in this area to focus on material values as he usually does. It is often terribly important for the individual to be important, and his definition of importance may be strongly coloured by material advantage and social status. There is often a fear of public humiliation, which inclines toward shunning the limelight, yet there is also an equally strong urge for exposure. In group situations this is a very self-conscious placement although in individual relationships this tendency may not be apparent. Saturn in the first house may be intensely self-conscious in a personal situation yet will deal well enough with a distant public. It is the image which is important with Saturn in the tenth. The person is likely to be conservative in his approach to social values because he does not wish to compromise his position. When this characteristic exists in combination with other, more adventurous factors, a considerable amount of inner friction may result.
When a broader perspective is taken of this most interesting placement of Saturn, it often happens that the sensitivity, the self-consciousness, the attention to public estimation, and the constant effort to demonstrate usefulness and value through achievement all conspire to prepare an individual in a very helpful way to dealing with the great responsibility of holding authority over others. He may find when he reaches the top that he has learned diplomacy and statesmanship along the way as well as a sense of compassion for those whom he is attempting to teach or structure.
Professionally the person with Saturn in the tenth house is generally successful, largely because he tries so hard and is so persistent. He does not work well under others because although he may for a time be able to present the smooth surface of humility which is such a gift of the Saturnian personality, his own ambition and love of success will eventually push him out on his own. His problem does not lie in the achievement of success once he has begun his climb. It is getting started in the first place which is the initial task and which involves his overcoming a fear of failure which may lead to inertia. The remainder of the task is to establish a definition of achievement which is not based on purely external values. It is difficult for a person intent on a mountain climb to comprehend the fact that his climb is meaningless, and the reward of the summit is illusory, unless his success serves as a demonstration to others that the summit can be achieved. It is usually the work of Saturn in the tenth house to give structure and form to some group idea. If an individual refuses to accept the offer of this opportunity and attempts to live his task through another person, he generally must accept the price of frustration and a sense of purposelessness. If he accepts the challenge of his own inner self, then he himself can become Saturn the teacher in his most beneficent form.
'Z

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lotusheartone
unregistered
posted November 06, 2005 08:55 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wow!

thanks that's wonderful information, so sweet of you.

Love and Light to YOU

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Azalaksh
Knowflake

Posts: 982
From: New Brighton, MN, USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted November 06, 2005 09:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Azalaksh     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Saturn in Aries and the first house
The first house is usually considered to describe the physical body of the individual, the personality with which he relates to his external environment, and on perhaps a deeper level the kinds of experiences which he is likely to attract during his life and which help him to shape and develop a certain set of conscious tools with which to govern his life. There is a two-way flow of energy through the first house of the chart because it is—as has often been suggested—a kind of lens through which the experiences of the environment pass to reach the individual and through which his own qualities must pass to reach the environment. Whatever factors are present within the individual birth chart, they must pass through the conditioning qualities of the first house and in particular the Ascendant before they can be recognised by others or expressed in a tangible fashion. All four angles of the chart are related to this inward and outward flow of the reality of the inner person into the outside world, but the most personal and most obvious of these four points of release is the Ascendant. The entire first house relates to the physical presentation of the individual in a conscious and deliberate manner. Whatever a man innately is, he must express it through a body and according to a body type—which gives the term "body" a larger framework. The Ascendant and the first house are often equated with the Jungian idea of the "persona" which, if it is to be a positive and effective medium through which a man may present himself to the world, must be in reasonable accord with the more hidden, unconscious aspects of his psyche.
The idea of the "persona" offers a considerable amount of insight into the function of the Ascendant which is often maligned by being considered merely a superficial mask which has little relation to the inner reality of the person. Like the masks of the ancient Greek tragedy, the persona is the person's statement of himself to the world; through this cultivated component of the psyche he declares his role according to the manner in which he has developed over the years. The persona, like the Ascendant, does not come into full conscious flowering until a certain level of maturity has been reached. Ideally this role should be a synthesis of what is best in him, and most useful, and should be worn lightly so that the man does not make the mistake of identifying with his presentation. It is very much what he would ideally like to be, or what he is developing into, rather than what he automatically is at any given time. The first house is the most unformed part of the birth chart for it, even more than the rest of the chart, is in a process of becoming.
According to the strength or weakness of this presentation, and according to whether or not it is crystallised and rigid or flexible and lightly worn, the man is able to stand at a precarious balance point between his outer environment and the world of his unconscious motivations. If he pulls too much toward one, the other reacts; he is required by the tension of the pull to stand at the centre. If he begins to identify with the role which he has chosen, he crystallises into it and is then at the mercy of the hidden and more treacherous aspects of his own psyche. If he ignores the outer world and attempts to withdraw into his own darkness, he is at the mercy of the environment and is dominated by it. From this viewpoint the importance of the Ascendant may be inferred for it would appear that its development needs always to be in delicate balance with the direction of the chart internally in order for the man to be in balance within himself.
Some idea of the effects of Saturn in the first house of the natal chart may be seen if this psychological adjunct to the traditional astrological interpretation is considered. Saturn's traditional associations with crystallisation and identification with mundane values suggests that one of the most frequent psychic effects of this position, if left unconscious, is a crystallisation of and identification with one's mask, with a consequent inner vulnerability to moods and effects and a great difficulty in expressing the inner person to the outer world. The mask becomes a prison and cannot be torn away; and behind it the man slowly suffocates.
One of the main qualities which appears to accompany
Saturn in Aries or in the first house is a lack of self-assertion of a
positive kind. There is often a need to enforce one's will and to control
the immediate environment; but rather than being the spontaneous
and self-confident assertion of the individual, this is more of a
defensive maneuvre which sometimes attempts to attack first because
it is fearful of attack. Sometimes the need for control is expressed in a
subtle and indirect way so that situations are manipulated without
any real evidence of aggressiveness. This is the characteristic coupling
of need and fear which is so often found with Saturn. The natural
shyness and stiff awkwardness of Saturn is expressed more obviously
with this placement than with any other, although the individual often
learns during life to cultivate a smooth, cool and polished surface.
Saturn conjuncting the ascendant is frequently concurrent
with a difficult birth, usually physically but sometimes psychologically
as well, and this curious coincidence occurs too often to be a real
coincidence. It is, moreover, reasonable to assume that the natural
reluctance of the person with Saturn in the first house to expose
himself to the outside world might even extend to birth. It is common
with a first house Saturn for the individual to learn from childhood
that it is costly to get too involved with life, and there is a basic
weakness in the persona which causes him to identify both too much and too little with the outward shell of his personality. He is therefore vulnerable to attack and control from the outside and generally knows it; and much of his life may be spent in devising ways of protecting himself so that the extent of his vulnerability is not discovered. The person with Saturn in the first house is often high in suspicion and low in self-confidence, and he looks out at others from behind an intangible but often very powerful barrier that effectively isolates him from the real impact of life. He may sometimes be burdened with chronic ill-health, particularly as a child when he has not yet learned other means of successful withdrawal from the arena. He often has little faith in himself, but the self with which he identifies is the mask rather than the total psyche; from the deliberate withdrawal from the roots of his own psychic life stems the curious lifelessness and dryness which is so often observable in the person with this placement of Saturn.
Saturn is considered to be in his fall in Aries, and from this one might deduce that this is a difficult position for him and one which is not easily carried. Possibly the most difficult side of it is the tendency to be cut off from both the flow of outer life and the flow of inner life so that the individual is stranded in a very small and very arid area of his psyche, difficult to reach, and unable to touch the mainspring of purpose and meaning which would enable him to face the outer world with courage. But I am inclined to believe that planets in their fall, and Saturn in particular, can offer to the persistent and perceptive person a much greater key to the meaning of the planet and therefore to the development in life of the function which it symbolises. This is because a planet in its fall must generally struggle, and it is this struggle which if carefully tended, yields insight and eventual expansion of the field of consciousness. This is particularly true of Saturn, who when placed in the sign of his fall is often stripped of the courage and confidence—the natural gift of the Arien—which is required to tackle the problems of living head-on. Yet the thing he wants the most is the joy of being free, of being first, of exploring unknown regions and meeting unknown challenges and revelling in the innate realisation that his existence is guarantee enough of his purpose. It is the person with Saturn in Aries or in the first house who with effort has the greatest possibility of achieving this kind of freedom.
Saturn may overcompensate with this placement as much as with any other. Consequently there are usually two distinct kinds of reaction to this struggle between the desire to challenge and experience life to the fullest and the fear of being hurt, dominated, and crushed by the forces of a hostile environment. The man who perpetually effaces himself to avoid a struggle and who backs away from those situations which might call for strength, aggressiveness, or direct confrontation, expresses one kind of unconscious Saturnian reaction. He often has no "temper” and rarely displays anger, but this can be very hard on the physical body because the natural tendency toward irritability is turned inward against oneself. This position is often connected with symptoms of a psychosomatic kind such as migraine headaches which are often linked with unexpressed anger and frustration. The self-effacement of this expression of Saturn is not truly humility but is rather a fear of entering the fight because of the inner certainty of losing it. There is often great emphasis on being "unselfish", a favourite keynote of Saturn in Aries or in the first house. But to be unselfish one must first have a self to give away, and the difficulty with this placement is that, in the beginning, until the individual comes to terms with his fear, there is no real acceptance of or expression of the self in the first place.
Saturn in the first house often feels that he is never able to have what he wants, that life is forever thwarting his desires. This is largely because he does not ask for what he wants, or if he does ask, then it is with the concurrent feeling that he does not actually deserve a reply. The will and the use of the will are often frightening to this kind of individual because he is afraid of his own will and consequently projects what he terms wilfulness or selfishness onto others. As he comes to terms with this shadowy and powerful aspect of his own personality—for the person with Saturn placed here has a powerful and controlled will if he chooses to recognise and utilise it—he generally finds that along with his frustration he has also learned control over his desire nature and has shaped his personality into a disciplined tool. Although Saturn is in his fall in Aries, Mars is exalted in Capricorn, and the energy is similar with both these positions; the controlled and directed will, coupled with a sense of purpose, is one of the more positive qualities offered by Saturn in the first house.
At the opposite end of the spectrum the more aggressive manifestation of Saturn in the first house often appears, and this individual may be at first glance rarely distinguishable from the truly fiery type of temperament. No one is more outgoing than he is, no one more prepared to take charge or seize control of a situation either through sheer force or more subtle calculation. His philosophy is that the best defence is offence because it has not yet occurred to him that it is possible to control oneself without the necessity of controlling everybody else as well. On closer expression this kind of individual is often found to be as shy and awkward as his more self-effacing brother. He may find it as difficult to participate fully in life and to experience the sense of richness and fullness which is so characteristic of the fiery personality.
The use of the will is something available to every human being, but it grows in proportion to one's self-knowledge and self-mastery. The natural fear that the majority of people feel about the unpredictability of life is connected largely with the unconsciousness of the majority of people about the resources and richness of the human psyche. Most men feel inadequate when confronted with their own powerlessness. The man who has achieved a degree of psychic integration is far better equipped to cope with life because he is generally aware of the purpose of his own life in a broad sense, and also more aware of the energies which he can utilise from within himself to carve out a piece of life for himself. Saturn in Aries or in the first house tends first to emphasise the fear of powerlessness because it suggests a clinging to the more superficial features of the personality and a consequent loss of contact with the richer inner person. Eventually this fear can prod the individual into a deeper exploration of what he considers to be his identity. Saturn in the house of the identity is closely connected with this search which can help to yield greater knowledge, greater integration, and the greater and more productive use of the will.
Thoughts??
'Z

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taurean_scorpion
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posted November 07, 2005 12:31 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Zala, i will need to make time to read all of this lol, I have my Saturn in Capricorn in the 6th.

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Marina
Newflake

Posts: 10
From: Kyiv, Ukraine
Registered: Apr 2009

posted November 07, 2005 04:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Marina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As a person with Virgo Saturn in the 1st I am sad to admit that most of what is written above is true Why everything related to Saturn placements is always so gloomy???

Anyway, Zala many thanks for info!

------------------
Sun in Gemini
AC in Leo
Moon in Pisces

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Azalaksh
Knowflake

Posts: 982
From: New Brighton, MN, USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted November 07, 2005 09:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Azalaksh     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Marina, fellow Moon in Pisces and Leo Asc!

I don't think everything related to Saturn placements is gloomy. There's some good stuff in there, and a real silver lining!! And all meaning is derived from our perception of The Way Things Are. I have Saturn in an Airy sign and house, not to mention it transiting my 12th. Despair not!!

To the person with Saturn in a fiery sign or house, the consciousness of the self is a tremendously important issue although he may not verbalise his need.
If he is seen as a motive, leading to a process which results in growth, then it is easier to comprehend the reason for his apparent restrictions in any area of life.
It may then be suggested that Saturn in Aries or the first house is connected with the understanding and development of the will or sense of purposeful activity.
The concept of self-determination as it is postulated here is a very ancient one which places the responsibility of the choice of earth plane circumstances in the hands of the self. It is one worth considering with an open mind, whatever the labels are to describe the situation, because it sheds some light on the deepest meaning of Saturn himself. He may be seen, finally, as the instrument or opportunity through which the person comes to understand the nature of his free will.
If he accepts the challenge of his own inner self, then he himself can become Saturn the teacher in his most beneficent form.

Zala

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cappyme
Newflake

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From:
Registered: Oct 2009

posted November 07, 2005 12:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cappyme     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey zala, You're so nice anyways sorry for replying a bit late! We're having some weird party thing going on in our house. Anyways you typed all of that????

Thannkkkkkk yoou so much .

I'm impressed by her work, its even better than I expected, and sometimes it was hard to understand so I had to reread it again but its so insightful and kind of true. Both the interpretations, I've never viewed saturn as bad, he's an old funny man. And I've had this humongous fear of failure that I wouldn't even try anything. So a lot of things strike true.

I cannot express my gratitude, really, thank you so much, I used to like liz greene but I like her even more now and thanks again, Love you!

PS:- I suspect MNF would be interested in this since I think she has the same saturn placements as me.
PPS:- Will give a more detailed response later, I've to go study history now!
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Don't go to bed angry, stay up and fight!

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