posted November 08, 2005 11:03 AM              

I have Gemini Mercury/7th house and it's hard but now I call up, after all if he was so free with his phone number he can't mind one of his ex g/f's calling right? And say, let's make a deal-you never touch me again, I never touch you again and if it bothers you, what do you want from me to make this happen? If he doesn't want anything but to talk, then I would tell him it's done and hang up after wishing him a nice evening. Be a ***** .

I know I have trouble doing that too, but in romantic relationships it's expected that there is a bit of drama at the end, so you might as well give it in a truthful, honest and sincere selfless way. Of course I always get a little bitchier than I want to!

and on a side note, I have never, ever, ever had a man give me closure, I was the one who had to demand a straight answer.

posted November 08, 2005 12:37 PM            

But that's me.. Mercury in Aquarius.

posted November 08, 2005 01:14 PM            

Mercury conjunct Venus in Scorpio

posted November 08, 2005 01:32 PM              

did
"And say, let's make a deal-you never touch me again, I never touch you again and if it bothers you."

ever get received by a chuckle? i give up using that one. it doesn't work so well. oh wait, you do that on the phone - never mind, that works as long as you don't call and they don't call anymore - hey, that's pretty "easy". could work but i know a few guys who laugh at that. it's quite frustrating.

next time i'll use that line from moonstruck - the one where Cher slaps the guy and tells him to snap out of it - oh wait, that doesn't work too well either.

i don't know. the ignore thing doesn't work so swell either. i would totally suggest engaging in something you did before you were with the person but mysteriously and completely stopped doing once you were with them - i would suggest submerging yourself in it again and surround yourself with people so your mind doesn't wander.

posted November 08, 2005 02:15 PM            

Or like maybe there is some unsaid things between you guys that has not been said that needs to be said in order for things to finally settled down...

posted November 08, 2005 03:21 PM              

Mercury in Gemini.

posted November 08, 2005 04:31 PM              

Closure at the end of relationship for me simply means acknowlegding the relationship's over, that life without that other person has begun for you and thus it's time for moving on. That's a choice you make yourself. That can happen regardless with what choices the other person makes.

posted November 08, 2005 04:53 PM            

I went through the closure process while we were still together and we both knew it was over. Maybe the only thing that I kept from him until the end was that I wanted nothing to do with him or his future. I don't want or need his friendship and would rather he just dropped off the face of the earth LOL... Too many issues with that one. When I left that day I waived goodbye and wished him luck with his future.

Sure I wanted to confront him on some level to tell him how badly he hurt me with his lies and the violence. But it would fall on deaf ears and only cause a large issue or possible fight. Instead I am just done. Burned all the cards, pictures, poems...etc.. I have nothing left to remind me of him and I deleted his new number from my phone.

So what happens? He calls me yesterday just to see how I am doing and he wants to talk. I won't ever return that phone call.

For me.. my heart is closed forever to him ..

But.. I have never had that problem with other ex-boyfriends that I cared about. Only a few guys I had dated in the past ever fell into the "don't ever bother me again" category. Usually, I keep a box of trinkets, cards and photos.. to remember the good times. We'll his went into a box.. and burn box LMAO.. sorry.. .it just feels good to be released from that relationship.

posted November 08, 2005 05:33 PM              

I will tell you what my issues are. I have merc in Gemini/Canc so I see myself as an emotional yet articulate communicator. Merc is in my 11th house. I like to be clear, specific and understood.

I had an ex and there were so many things left unsaid that I vowed I'd never not communicate again. That was over 5 years ago. In subsequent relationships, I am quite clear about the issues. I don't believe in playing games and I want my position established from the outset.

I never want to hear "well you never told me." If the person isn't interested in hearing my position, then I'm really done with you and that's it for me.

S

posted November 09, 2005 12:36 AM              

What I need to make clear is that it's not available, any emotional attachment, negative or positive, and I assume anything coming my way is negative so I want it to stop. Phone calls with hangups, thoughts about me, talking about me, sending ex or current g/f's to call me, that kind of thing always happens no matter who started it.

There is no one person who started the breakup, one pulls away and one gets ****** but it's not always the same.

So since every situation is unique the only way is to confront that individual, because otherwise how can I learn to confront the next one? It's the confrontation that's good, not the words.

When I said don't touch me I didn't get a laugh, I got a denial. He had come up to me in public and tried to touch me even though he had ended it. In the phone call he denied ever touching me, then I laughed and he laughed. He was nervous and and I said we're cool, don't worry, just don't do it again! and hung up. He was ****** I know because his hangups from one of his g/f's confirmed that.

He may have laughed but he was angry that he had been confronted. Also he needed to know I don't want him near me or coming near me as he's a negative influence.

I am so nice, I always have to do this. In no way can I get closure on my own. But then this is an individual solution. I tried getting closure on my own, I wrote letters to him, wrote letters to myself, went to therapy, and it didn't work. After the call I felt very strong and free of doubt.

If doubt is commitment then a confrontation takes away all doubts as to what reality is. It gives you self respect and the phrase Are We Cool? can mean you had better understand what I am saying is real. Confrontations, painful but only if you are self deluded like I am. (neptune conjunct ascendant, opposite my sun, and cancer moon). I make it quick.

posted November 09, 2005 11:41 AM              

i agree with gemini nymph - i don't understand why closure has to involve the other person -

i think by involving the other person you are giving too much of yourself at the wrong time and closure should mean taking parts of yourself back.

posted November 09, 2005 01:25 PM            

I think it really does depend on the person. For me, burning those letters set me free... acknowledging the pain and heartache of the betrayals set me free. Setting my heart and mind on the fact that I KNEW what was going on but didn't NEED confirmation was enough.

But that is easier said than done.. and I am a bit of an odd person when it comes to walking away from certain things. I resent when I give 100% and end up having someone take me for granted (or insult my intelligence by thinking of me as a fool).

I was dreaming of him nightly.. he would try to contact me or want to talk. In each dream I kept walking away.. telling him there was no need to talk. (For those that know me... I am an active dreamer and seem to have more than my share of prophetic dreams).

In any case, finally I acknowledged that I needed to talk to him in the dream - so that I can put MY spirit at rest and hopefully stop that energy. About 4 nights ago he came to me again in a dream. We were in some house cleaning up things and I needed to get my last box of shoes / clothes. Everytime I tried to leave, I would forget something and never make it out of the house. He kept following me, begging me to hear him out (IN TRUTH... HE NEEDS CLOSURE) I told him to screw off.. that I was done.. but I couldn't LEAVE LOL... So finally I turned to him and said "Do you want to know why I hate you? Do you want to know how you are the only person that I ever loved that I can no longer look at or ever want to be friends with?" Then I listed everything.. all the lies, infractions, betrayals..etc...

I finally picked up my last item.. he had walked out of the room and came into another. This time, he was an old man. He leaned up against the wall and I said "What happened to your face? How did you get so old and why is your skin bluish?" He looked sort of dead... He said "I am sorry... so sorry for all that I have done.. I will never forget you... I will never forget how much I love the smell of you.. vanilla.."

And that was it.. I woke up and felt whole. I finally confronted him in my own way. Oddly enough, he then called me a few days later.

Natasha,

Your ex (this is the one with Venus in Cancer right).. sounds a bit like mine. They seem to think they can play and others are expected to just "allow them" that behaviour. I was so appalled when Mr. Taurus tried to kiss me and hold me that one afternoon. He was even more hurt because never in our relationship had I been cold nor ever turned away a kiss / cuddle / advance. He was not used to seeing the cold side of a Sagittarian when we have finally made up our mind. I know to expect more calls / e-mails from him. I won't respond until I know he is in San Antonio.. then I will tell him to move on and never have contact with me again.

It takes being firm.. but it is hard when you share the same friends (I have left his circle in leiu of my own friends here). I am fortunate because one of my best friends (his bosses wife) is a Scorp (as is her husband) and will not give any information about me other than I am happy. They would never divulge where I live or my home number and they respect my request not to tell me anything about him or what he is doing.

Planet...

Ahhh.. I am sorry you have to feel that pain. Being on the other side.. trust me it is hard to cut someone so completely out of your life. As much as you are tied to him for the guilt you feel for the pain you caused, he is also tied to you for having to actively keep up his defenses when you are around. It may sound easy that I have so clearly cut out Mr. Taurus, but there is still a hurt.. knowing that I am also hurting him - but it has to be done.

The main thing is to learn from what we have done or what has been done to us and it sounds like most people here have done that. From vowing to keep communication going to vowing never to sabotage ones relationship again.. it is the lesson that we take from the situation that is most important.

posted November 09, 2005 01:52 PM              

But then I feel incredible guilt that I did something wrong, and I can be played with because of it. And then I have the complete me fantasy going too. But knowing myself, I won't change soon and I can only disconnect from the pain emotionally.

The BIG problem with not getting closure is that you still can run into each other and be friendly and have the same friends. That makes it so much more painful.

I imagine that's the worst of the non closure, the painful dread of running into your ex, or one of the ex's friends. Once you have been firm, there are no more hang ups, with people in common, they are ashamed to bring it up, and let it drop already.

Everyone knows how you feel, the anger is brought out into the light of day, and everyone can feel for you. No one discounts that kind of pain, so it's very validating.

And I always lose friends so it hurts, now I try to keep some friends of my own, it's so controlling to keep someone hanging like that, it also is designed to make someone feel sorry, punishment.

Anyway I am very into giving closure and saying, it was going too fast, or I am not ready, something at least. It takes some maturity AND it's been very tough practicing what I preach believe me!

posted November 10, 2005 12:30 AM              

Is that the kind you mean?

I had a terrible time with an Aqua and I couldn't get closure, I mailed him a book and beautiful card on his birthday. We talked on the phone and I felt closure. But this was years later. He was happy in a quiet way. I asked about mutual friends we used to know and that was the purpose of my contact.

posted November 10, 2005 09:11 AM              

She said we should start as friends and see where we go from there. Now considering we live 200 miles away from each other (equivalent to 2000 in the US really), plus the following epic, this wasn't likely.

Plus she didn't want to hear or understand my point of view. It was easier for her to maintian her self-image if I was the lead role of the villain of the piece.

I miss her, but I'm not sure the her I miss ever existed other than as a quaint illusion she created and I willingly believed in through lonliness and desperation (what a saddo! Had been on my own for years though to be fair to myself).

She did this this one time before. We started as friends and I thought grew to have feelings for each other. But when I asked her about this she said I was a plonker and she only wanted to be friends.

I cut off contact after that with a pea-sized ego left, until she started getting back in touch. Anyway, 3 months later she admits she has feelings for me and that she always did but had something against men at that point and took it out on me. She didn't say sorry thoguh I have realised in hindsight and told me off for talking about it because it made her feel guilty (yes she is young, 22).

Well, we meet up, declare deep feelings for one another over the next 6 months and e-mail and call each other every day. She tells me how she's never felt like this before, blah blah blah. So, I decide to invite her on holiday with me and my friends. She insists her best mate comes. She keeps saying how much she cares, blah blah blah and meets my mates and has a great time and cries when she goes home and the usual stuff. I start falling deep despite my better judgement. Its just been a along time since someone actually acted like they gave a crap and I didn't feel alone. I tell her I need to trust her, she says she will earn it if she has to.

When I go up to visit her she changes. Total 180 personality change really, still kinda cuddly but almost reluctnat if you know what I mean. This annoys me, I tell her over the phone ,she cannot see how she can ever have done anything wrong. I admit I am over-reacting and its probably me (desperate ******* )!).

Day before holdiay she e-mails me at work telling me how she is so looking forward to waking up next to me for 7 days. She is aware that my friends haven't seen me with a girl for 5 years so I'm a bit nervous too (naturally I thought).

Holiday comes, attutude changes, cold, distant, hangs with her mate and deliberately pushes me away. I get annoyed and become cold and confused, while my friends watch this all unfold on holiday (nice!), and I hadn't had one for 4 years!!!

Tells me in the airport (with the obligatory audience of EVERYONE) that she will be in the room with her friend not me and hopes I don;t mind. My mates throw me quizzical looks. I get annoyed.

2 days of this and I ask her what the f is going on. Oh, she says, I didn't want a relationship!!! Nice.

Scorpio Moon kicks in, Scorpio Ascendant and Gemini Mars aiding and abetting. Not good for bystanders for the rest of the week.

leave her to make her own way home from the airport.

She e-mails me the next day. I try to explain my side. Deaf ears, victime complex (bless Cancers), shell retreat.

Pisces gullibility kicks in and I apologise profusely again and agin. She says to be just friends and she will call me. 4 weeks and no call. I send e-mails asking whats going on, she mentions that I wanted closure, that I mentioned there were others girls interested and that I was trying to control her all the time and I had an anger problem.

Maybe she was right. Maybe she wasn't. Who knows what goes on in relationships until they are finished right?

I didn't mention the fact she was a cheeky lying ***** who lead me on twice and acepted a holiday and disrespected me and threw my trust back in my face. Oh no, thats right I did

I told her I was sorry it ended so badly and I would never forget her. I needed to cut off contact for my own sake, I don't think she registered enough real emotion for it to be much a problem on her end.

Oh yes, she has Gemini Moon, should have seen it coming right?

I'm sure I'm too blame. The guy always is right? Seems the message these days anyway.....

The deeper issues and real reasons are behind this story, this is the face value one that will ultimately be judged as the true facts.

I just want to know if I really could have been loved or not, that was all.

I never found out.

Closure? Not even close.

Do I need it.

.....God please......

Swerve (sorry for the rambling)

posted November 10, 2005 09:48 AM            

Closure.....**ahem**..I don't think it's possible to have closure with her. The only closure you can have is with yourself. She's got quite an opposing personality too...Cancer Sun & Gemini moon...sticky. She can't make up her mind (Gemini) but wants the comfort of you (Cancer) She can't have it both ways. I don't think you should contact her again and give yourself time to break-away from the situation and give yourself closure from the relationship. Remember HER loss, not YOURS.