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Author Topic:   Chiron Conjunct Sun
Mama Mia
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Posts: 117
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posted February 07, 2006 11:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mama Mia     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What exactly does that mean? anyone???

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LILYGIRL
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posted February 07, 2006 12:02 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mama,

Is the conjunct yours or in synastry?

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Mama Mia
Knowflake

Posts: 117
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posted February 07, 2006 12:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mama Mia     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey Lg its mine..

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LILYGIRL
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posted February 07, 2006 12:09 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ilove Liz Greene's piece on Chiron and Sun. For better or worse, my sun squares my chiron. LOL...


The Sun and Chiron in direct aspect

Those with the Sun in direct aspect to Chiron may know on a profound level how the unfairness of life can damage the spirit; and if they are able to take on the challenge of this combination of planets, they may also dedicate their considerable energy and strength toward leaving the world a much better place than it was when they entered it. There are many examples of "famous" people with Sun-Chiron aspects who illustrate this point; any compendium of birth charts, such as Taeger's Internationales Horoskope Lexikon, is worth perusing to this end. But rather than dwelling on the famous, I would like to briefly mention two people personally known to me, both chart clients, and both with the Sun conjunct Chiron, who exemplify the very particular kind of pain Sun-Chiron may suffer. One of these also exemplifies the kind of creative resolution which is possible.
The first, a woman with the Sun conjunct Chiron in Capricorn in the 9th house, experienced Chiron's wounding first in the religious sphere (as might be expected with this 9th house placement), by being born into an orthodox Jewish family many of whose members had died in the Holocaust. She had inherited a profound bitterness and distrust of people and life, based only partly on her own experience, but also on an inherited perception of being a scapegoat in a hostile world. This wound also encompassed a prevalent orthodox Jewish attitude about the inferiority of women, exhibited in certain taboos about the body. An amalgamation of experiences highlighting life's unfairness had created in this woman a deep poison and cynicism, and an apparently immovable conviction that she was worth nothing. As a result, she victimised herself, through compulsive eating and a chain of destructive relationships. Identification with the scapegoat, the oppression of a ferocious inner persecutor, and the sense of a flawed and inferior body, were the chief areas in which she worked in psychotherapy over several years, occasionally "reporting back" to me for a chart update. It took a very long time before she could fight her way out from under Chiron's injury, and experience the self-respect and self-love of the Sun. Yet, clinging to the experience of victimisation can sometimes be a way of feeling special. It is the mute language of a secret, unacknowledged, unconscious Sun - which, if expressed in more honest ways, can not only provide healing for one's own own wounds, but can also generate a deep recognition of the blindness and pain of a collective which turns on another collective to alleviate its own sense of woundedness. This lady has travelled a long road, and her innate grit, toughness, and lack of sentimentality about life have turned out to be not only among her greatest resources, but also one of the great strengths she has begun to offer others suffering from eating disorders, similar to that she herself once suffered from.
The second example is a failed writer, a man who has all his life dreamed of publishing novels yet who invariably "shoots himself in the foot" by producing unpublishable work. He has the Sun conjunct Chiron in Leo in the 5th house. His writing style is very fine, and he has no discernible block in expressing his gift; but everything he produces is always too long, too short, too dense, or too incomprehensible, or the themes he chooses to write about are in some way politically incorrect and offensive to some specific group the publisher has reason to fear. Behind these failures in the outer world lies self-sabotage, and behind the self-sabotage lies a deep conviction that he is worth nothing, that he is stupid and inarticulate, and that if ever he does get a work into print it will be mocked, criticised, and dismissed as worthless. To date, he has not been able to utilise the insights a chart can offer, and has not fully recognised the real nature of his wound. The divine child within him was wounded by an early social and educational environment that perceived his vivid imagination as threatening and his intense self-preoccupation and self-expressiveness as selfish. His parents, so far as I can see, cannot not be held particularly culpable; all parents blunder in one way or another, and these were no worse than most and better than many. But the educational system in which he was raised did its best to turn the divine child into a socially acceptable automaton. Many people experience such pressures and frustrations. But those with Sun-Chiron in Leo may be particularly attuned to, and more readily injured by, the narrowness and fear of originality so often found in collective educational institutions, which may unwittingly destroy the very creative spirit they profess to encourage. Life, as Chiron knows well, can be very unfair.
Aspects between the Sun and Chiron are not guaranteed to offer a solution on a plate. Many individuals do not find their way through. Yet, although profoundly challenging, these contacts may also convey a special sense of how to bring wounds into consciousness, and how to teach this consciousness to others. Hard aspects between the two no doubt helped to drive Jung (Sun in Leo out-of-sign square Chiron in Aries) into formulating a psychology of the collective, and perhaps also helped to drive Dane Rudhyar (Sun in Aries opposition Chiron in Libra) into making astrology human-centred, and a tool for insight and enlightenment, rather than mere prognostication. No doubt both these men suffered, and both, on occasion, exhibited the less attractive sides of the wounded Centaur; I would not have liked to have been married to either of them. But they turned their wounds into creative power, and partook of the mythic Centaur's gift for teaching and healing. How did they get there? How do we avoid becoming a mini-Milosevic, and choose instead the path which favours the will to live?


The Centaur Chiron instructing the young Achilles. Wall painting from the basilica of Herculaneum Larousse
How do we get there?

The house and sign in which Chiron is placed tell us a great deal about where, and how, life has wounded us. This is the place where, no matter how hard we seek to find a specific object for our blame, we eventually discover that the blame lies in the gap between ideal and reality, and in the inevitable flawedness of human nature. We may need to rail against life, but if we are not to sink into a corrosive bitterness which can ultimately make us distorted and ill, we need to move beyond this phase of Chiron's rage into the quest for understanding which takes us beyond identifying with the scapegoat and the victim, and beyond the attendant inclination to play the scapegoater ourselves. This understanding may require us to dispense with previous spiritual and moral convictions, and find a broader base from which to view life. We may need to give up the idea that the good guys always ride white horses and the bad guys black ones, and we may also have to accept the fact that sometimes very good, decent people suffer unfairly, and very unpleasant, nasty ones manage very nicely and die in their beds rich, comfortable, and well pleased with themselves. Chiron and Walt Disney do not make good bedfellows.
How do we find this kind of understanding? How do we learn to genuinely forgive and tolerate, without that vastly superior turn-the-other-cheek smugness which masks deep unconscious resentment and rage? Chiron needs the Sun for this task. The Sun has the power to affirm the individual's specialness and lovability, and this alone can counteract the poison of self-pity. The house and sign in which the Sun is placed at birth reflect what we need to become, if we wish to feel truly alive. If the Sun is in Aries in the 5th, and we are busy being self-sacrificing and devoting our lives to others, then somewhere, something is not working, and a deep disloyalty to self may encourage Chiron's bitterness, rather than his understanding. If the Sun is in Sagittarius in the 1st, and we are busy pretending we don't wish to be noticed by anyone, then somewhere, something is not working. If the Sun is in the 10th in Taurus, and we claim we are uninterested in material security and collective recognition of our talents, then somewhere, something is not working. If the Sun is in the 12th in Cancer and we are busy pretending we do not believe in any mystical or invisible dimension of life, psychological or spiritual, then somewhere, something is not working. I believe we need to ask ourselves: Is the Sun shining in my life? Am I myself? Or is a fear of loneliness or not belonging making me pretend to be what I am not?
Equally, we may also need to face Chiron, and ask ourselves: What is the nature of my wound? How has life hurt me, and whom do I secretly blame? What might I be doing to compensate, deny, indulge in, or project that wound? Can I feel compassion for myself, or only rage and self-pity? Where do I feel scapegoated, and where do I try to heal, or destroy, others in order to convince myself that I am not wounded? Where do I sabotage or even destroy myself because of bitterness? In order for the Sun and Chiron to work together, we need to be conscious of both. There is a profound and mysterious chemistry between these planets which, if it is working for us rather than against us, seems to mobilise the life-force, not only for our own expression, but also for the collective of which we are a part. Chiron's alienation and damage keep the Sun from becoming arrogant and insensitive; the Sun's warmth and joy keep Chiron from despair. As with all chart factors, the degree to which these dimensions of our own souls give of their best depends on how aware we are of their reality inside us. This is not a cure for life. Life will still hurt us from time to time, in one way or another, and Chiron's wounds, although we may make peace with them, inevitably rob us of our innocence. The will to live is not mobilised by a belief that life is all roses, that all we need is love, and that some kind father-mother-god will reward us if we are good. It is constellated by tougher stuff, and needs realism as well as faith and vision, if we are to exit feeling we have done our best with the gift of life, however transient, which we have been given.
http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_wounding_e.htm

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Mama Mia
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Posts: 117
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Registered: Feb 2010

posted February 07, 2006 12:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mama Mia     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Lg I was checking I have Sun Conjunct Chiron in Pisces and My Son has that placement in Leo...

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Azalaksh
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Posts: 982
From: New Brighton, MN, USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted February 07, 2006 12:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Azalaksh     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Howzabout this one, MM?
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/006794.html

'Zala

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gemini girl
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posted February 08, 2006 08:40 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
im gemini sun conjunct chiron in 7th house opposition uranus 2nd house what does this mean?

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