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Author Topic:   venus square/opposite SATURN...(yuck)
shop22much
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posted May 27, 2006 09:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for shop22much     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
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Taurus80
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posted May 27, 2006 11:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Taurus80     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
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Rev. Alice
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posted May 27, 2006 11:24 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Venus-Saturn contacts require us to "redefine love."

To love is to value.
It has nothing to do with sex.

------------------
You are a blessing and you are blessed.
Rev. Alice
www.lifeprintastrology.com

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redbubblesbleed
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posted May 27, 2006 08:17 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
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taurean_scorpion
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posted May 27, 2006 10:33 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Venus in gemini in 12th Opposite Saturn in capricorn in 6th, here.

yes, it is yuck...
it makes me totally awkward in social situations, so rigid and serious. many describe me as cold. now that i'm aware of this i try and relax, but when i was younger i felt confused, isolated, and felt even more inadequate than i feel now.
i never had the closness with my (real) mother...or father, but it was worse with her. they both hurt me real bad, and i felt very lonely, scared, insecure as a child.
i still carry it with me...
as for relationships...it's hard to get into them because lack of trust. it would also make sense to say i avoid them.
it's sad because i am the total opposite of the way i display myself...
i am very caring, affectionate, funny, and a congenial person inside.

Taurus/Scorpio/Cancer

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Taurus80
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posted May 27, 2006 11:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Taurus80     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
wow redbubblesbleed..

your childhood experiences are similar to mine..i was lucky i had my grandmother to fill the void that my mother sometimes didn't know i felt..nice to know i'm not alone with that..

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redbubblesbleed
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posted May 28, 2006 02:27 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
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Taurus80
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posted May 28, 2006 07:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Taurus80     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
heyy redbubblesbleed!

it's nice to know your grandmother is there for you too! and mine use to live with us too! it sounds like you have a great relationship with your mom now.. isnt' it fun to have stuff in common?

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funkyaquarianpixie
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posted May 29, 2006 04:18 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
i heard the good thing about Venus - Saturn, is that we age well and are more popular as we get older. Apparently it gets easier once you have got thru your saturn return.

I bloody well hope so!

i always felt a bit inadequate in the eyes of my mother.. but as i got older i realised she had a hard time...

Venus in pisces opposite saturn in virgo..

i will devote a little more time to this thread this evening but im waiting for mum to pick me up for a dress fitting for her wedding in august.

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sthenri
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posted May 29, 2006 08:07 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Everyone I have met with this aspect, has had to let go of someone he or she loved, maybe then the redefining happens.

There is a different attitude towards people that is for sure.

My venus/saturn are both in the 5th house, too wide to be a conjunction, but I have very different values now than when I was younger.

The opposition can give a person the method and means to explore our value system.

It's heavy but worthwile, even romantic.

Natasha
Taurus

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steelrose
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posted May 29, 2006 11:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for steelrose     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi guys!

Saturn-Venus conjunction here. In Leo.

I’ve been thinking about this recently… Because of my Saturn return; I’m only a few degrees away of the exact transit and it’s been a nightmare. It’s not just my Saturn returning, it’s also upsetting Venus.

Yes, all you say is so true… I’m unable to show affection towards my mother, I’ve always been. Not because she is not a good mother. She is sweet and caring… But somehow I feel hurt by her. Her mere presence upsets me. I can’t return affection… I’ve tried to make the conscious effort to be nice to her… but I cannot say thank you or be cuddly. Something really painful and paralysing gets me… I’m working hard, at least not to be snappy or nasty, I try to breathe deeply and at least be pleasant. Something is very wrong between us… Internally I blame her for tolerating my father behaviour, for having forced us, helpless children, to such a psychological torture. Funnily enough, I never was so hard with my father. I don’t think I will ever be prepared to be a mother myself.
I read somewhere that my Moon in the 12th had to do with it too…

Same here with my grandma… She was my angel when I was a child. She was the one to bring me up, to cuddle me, to be understanding and sweet. She is still the only person (besides my brother) I love and I can express love towards in my family.

I’ve been always blocked. It’s tough for me to express love. And to feel it. I live in a cold place because of that inability. I know people love me but I cannot feel it one bit.

Love hurts. It’s an unforgiving teacher punishing you when you try to enjoy and be sweet. Venus is trapped by Saturn. Love is not fun, is just a lesson, mostly sour. As you say, I’m so sacred of love that I avoid it. It terrifies me. I mistrust men romantically speaking. Love has hurt me in ways than nothing else has done. Love of any kind.

I know I’m so sweet inside, so caring and loving, so fiery and passionate… But all that warmth is trapped inside a stone box. And through my Saturn return, it’s being torture… It feels like being abandoned in a dark freezing cold stone cell on your own in absolute silence. No matter how loud you shout or cry; nobody answers back… or if they do, you cannot hear them.

Does this truly improve after Saturn return? I still have several months to endure. It’s been going worse the closest I get to the exact date in at the end of the year. And then again in July 2007…

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Kamilla
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posted May 29, 2006 12:19 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This thread is amazing! I have Venus in 4th house square Saturn in 7th.

I have always felt that my grandmother was the only person who loved me unconditionally and made me feel like a child. My relationship with my mother were very complicated and even that we love each other very much we were never able to truly show it. I spent all my childhood and youth trying to maintain the "golden girl" image and even that I did well by common standards - graduated on top of my class from school and college, got a good job, married to a nice guy - it was never good enough for her and no one else ever was able to make me feel like such a loser. We have never discussed any female/sex issues either and my period at the age of 11 came as a complete shock. Thank God, my grandmother was living with us at the time so she explained to me what was going on.

These days our relationship are much better. Mostly due to the fact that we live 10000 miles apart so we get to see each other once in 2-3 years. I call her every couple weeks and give her an update on what's going on with my daughter and I. Concentrating on a bright side and keeping not so bright side to myself. Last year I got divorced and I still didn't tell her although I did tell it to my father and my brother right away. So when she asks me how is my husband and his family doing I just say that everyone is fine. Although at this point I am pretty sure that she knows. That's pretty disfunctional, isn't it....I know that she loves me very much and miss me tremendously. So do I.

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redbubblesbleed
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posted May 29, 2006 02:36 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
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Arnicka
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posted May 29, 2006 03:22 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This is craziness! I have the square and my Grandmothers also loved me unconditionally while my Mother there was always a block with [and sometimes outright abuse]. This is so fascinating...! I have a cousin with the trine and even tho its not so hard of an aspect her mother abandoned her and her Grandmother took over the mother role and raised her as her own.

*It's true about getting better as we get older! Im already looking about 6 yrs younger

Question: Do any of you fall for older types, or have good friendships with older women? Wondering if Venus Saturn might mimick [sp?] Venus Capricorn.

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Kamilla
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posted May 29, 2006 03:50 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes, on all counts

It sounds like such a cliche but a lot of people say that my daughter and I look like sisters. I guess, the fact that we wear the same size i.e. share the wardrobe helps too

My best girlfriend is 12 years older than me. I have dated quite a few older men and my ex was 15 older than me. After my divorce I thought I am SO over this whole "age difference" thing and put some conscious effort in meeting and dating guys close to my age... only to find myself really interested in someone of my ex's generation Probably rather than looking for friends and lovers I am still looking for parents substitutes

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Selena
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posted May 29, 2006 05:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Selena     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This thread is fascinating,

I don't have Saturn aspecting any of my personal planets, but both Saturn and Venus are in 11th house, too far for conjuction (15 degrees apart). However, it seems that they still had some effect on mother experience : cold, cold, cold mother, no affection at all (she was caring in material ways, cooking, feeding, clothing, but NO affection, cuddling whatsoever). Very stern peson, I LOVE her, but I don't LIKE her. That's why I think that I will be the most smothering, affectionate mother ever (already practising on my hubby)! Angel grandmothers, and many girlfriends much older then myself.
Amazing how many coicidences with other posts. Steel Rose, Taurus80 and others, I emphatise with you and your mother experiences. YOU ARE NOT ALONE. I forgave my mother, because she didn't know any better, it is just the way she is and I went through lots of anguish about her coldess and toughness, but i totally forgave her. She was a good mother in every other way. Never abandoned us, kept a stable, secure family, just no affection and warm words. Well, life is not perfect, what can we do....Love to all, Selena.

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writesomething
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posted May 29, 2006 11:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for writesomething     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
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Taurus80
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posted May 29, 2006 11:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Taurus80     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
awwwwww ((((((((((redbubblesbleed)))))))))

thank you soooooooo much! i love it! it's so shiny and cute..lol

i was born april 28, 1980..you????????

who knows how many more strange concidences there are..

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Taurus80
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posted May 29, 2006 11:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Taurus80     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
thank you for your words Selena..

i'm glad that you were able to let go of the pain..it's amazing how similar we all felf in some way..

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steelrose
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posted May 30, 2006 04:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for steelrose     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I forgot to say that my conjunction is pretty close… 1º apart.

Oh, yes, Kamilla, I also played the ‘golden girl’ image. I think I still try to. Not just for my mother. For everyone. I never discussed any sex or love related issues with her. She hasn’t met boyfriends or love interests, not even known about them.

Not even about anything related to my feelings. I remember doing it once when I was a teenager and all I got was mockery. I never did it again.

Our relationship improved when I went to live abroad, mostly trying to escape from the cold and lack of love.

Arnicka… Older types? Yes, I like older or older-looking men… My ex is 14 years older than me. And women that have made the bigger impact on me are on her 40s… Or 50s… Yes, I suppose there is something about older and experienced souls that gets me ticking… Maybe I’m looking for a mother. But I also think I’m more mature than my age, so I need more mature souls to interact with…

Selena Thank you for saying I’m not alone because it feels that way… My mother has been a good mother. A pity that I couldn’t feel it. As a scorp, she is pretty emotional… But our interactions never felt right. We can’t reach each other. I feel some kind of pity for her, almost despise… and a lot of frustration. I always come out as a witch, a cruel and cold creature, selfish and hard. I notice it but… I’m unable to warm up… All I can do is try and be pleasant and control my temper.

Writesomething… You dealt with a man like us? Do you think we let go the ones that love us most? I have. But it wasn’t my choice. They decided either I was too golden or too difficult to love and disappeared. It didn’t matter how hard I tried. Maybe they thought I was unable to love… Not human… A stone goddess with a heart of ice. A steel rose.

So you left him? Why? Maybe I could understand through you why I was left…

My ex said I was a steel rose. So beautiful and apparently delicate and fragile… But hard as steel inside. Unbreakable. Hard and brave.

Taurus80 Lovely to find you around here, sweetie… It’s been a long time…

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writesomething
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posted May 30, 2006 04:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for writesomething     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
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steelrose
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posted May 30, 2006 06:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for steelrose     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oh WOW… I’m trying to imagine how it feels to be in your skin looking at someone like me… It must be hard, sweetie… I don’t know if it will help, but it’s very tough for us too.

We feel so unprotected, so vulnerable when we open up… It feels as if we were waiting for a blow. Opening up is standing naked in the cold. When it’s so difficult to trust love, exposing ourselves is a matter of blind faith. The stakes are very high… because when we feel safe enough, after years of being locked and ungrateful, when we start to believe… then it’s too late and all we get is pain in return. When you are so hungry of love, you are oversensitive and blows feel like cataclysms. So the wall keeps thickening and thickening for the next person to come.

Inside, we are unprotected children locked in a cage. Traumatised children. Orphans. We only need time and patience.

In a couple of cases, I wasn’t in a relationship with the man that abandoned me… We were more than friends but never in a couple. I don’t know if I broke them… Maybe it’s what you are saying; you are not ready to wait so long with so much uncertainty.

I have been in that position too. A Venus retro like yours. Moon in Capricorn. Also Saturn retro. And I’m right at that point when you let go. I waited 20 years for him. And my Saturn-Venus conjunction has had enough. Maybe I should let go. I think he is my Twin Soul. But love is this awful for me, I’ve been losing since as long as I can remember. I suppose this is my ultimate lesson. The ultimate loss.

Of course, he will never know how badly he has broken me. He won’t sense how deep he touched me or understand how important he is for me. I don’t know if he even cares. We both are doomed by Saturn. We both are Venus-Saturn children. And knowing it doesn’t make it any easier or better.

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Selena
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posted May 30, 2006 06:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Selena     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hello Steelrose, Taurus80 and all you nice people here,

I so can identify with your words:... "But our interactions never felt right. We can’t reach each other. I feel some kind of pity for her, almost despise… and a lot of frustration. I always come out as a witch, a cruel and cold creature, selfish and hard. I notice it but… I’m unable to warm up… All I can do is try and be pleasant and control my temper."
It is EXACTLY how I feel towards her, but it is important to say, I do feel pity for her, because I think that she is the prisoner of her stern, hard nature.
Now that she is older, I think that she feels regrets about her behaviour in the past (because I told her how much it hurt me), but there is nothing we can do to reverse it, and I found some kind of symphaty for her, because she really didn't know how to express love and affection. I think that now she wishes she did, but it is like 30 years too late...

Taurus80 - not a problem, you DEFINITELY are NOT alone, I think that there are many more people out there who had similar experiences like us. And few of us came out of woodwork on this forum, hehe.
We just have to forgive them (our mothers), to realize it is not our fault, nor theirs, I think, it is just the way it is unfortunately, and we have to resist feeling bitter and resentful.
I know how hard it is, I struggled with those feellings for a long time (I live abroad from them, and the relationships are polite, but never warm, they never have been). But now I accept her as she is, there is nothing I can do.
I know she won't be around forever, and I now don't want to hurt her by reproaching her, because there is no gain by doing that, I would just hurt her, because we can't turn back time. (I did reproach her in the past, and now I even feel bad about it, some psychological guilt. Sometimes I wish we didn't have feelings, it would be much easier!).
But for me, I hope for you too, it feels good to talk about this with you guys who feel the same way, because I don't think other people with "warm" mothers would understand.
I wish you all the best, Selena.

P.S. (I don't know how to put these smilies in my post, they are so cute...).

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steelrose
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posted May 30, 2006 09:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for steelrose     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Selena,

I do feel pity for my mother… Not because she is stern but because she is weak. Because she didn’t protect us against a stern cold father. Because she chose him and let him mistreat her. Because all I remember and I still see in their relationship was disrespect and abuse. Because she was a coward and trapped him not to be alone. Because they locked me in. She chose the wrong experiences for me. She chose the wrong man and made us pay for it. Because she was always so unhappy. Because home was always so cold, so harsh. Because home never felt home. Because now I’m dysfunctional. Pity and anger for what she is and what I have become. Because all she has is us and it’s too much responsibility on me, especially because she never taught me how to love.

PS – You can get smilies by typing in your messages the following codes: http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/smilies.html

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steelrose
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posted May 30, 2006 09:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for steelrose     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A song for all of you, girls... I used to cry listening to it... Alone , locked up in my bedroom...


To The Moon & Back - Savage Garden

She’s taking her time making up
The reasons
To justify all the hurt inside
Guess she knows from the smile
And the look in their eyes
Everyone’s got a theory about the
Bitter one
They’re saying mamma never loved
Her much
And daddy never keeps in touch
That’s why she shies away from
Human affection
But somewhere in a private place
She packs her bags for outer space
And now she’s waiting for the right
Kind of pilot to come
And she’ll say to him
She’s saying

Chorus

I would fly to the moon and back if
You’ll be
If you’ll be my baby
Got a ticket for a world where we
Belong
So would you be my baby

She can’t remember a time when she
Felt needed
If love was red then she was colour
Blind
All her friends they’ve been tried for
Treason
And crimes that were never defined
She’s saying love is like a barren
Place
And reaching out for human faith is
Is like a journey I just don’t have a
Map for
So baby’s gonna take a dive and
Push the shift to overdrive
Send a signal that she’s hanging
All her hopes on the stars
What a pleasant dream
Just saying

Chorus

Hold on hold on

Mamma never loved her much
And daddy never keeps in touch
That’s why she shies away from
Human affection
But somewhere in a private place
She packs her bags for outer space
And now she’s waiting for the right
Kind of pilot to come
And she’ll say to him
Just saying

Chorus twice

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