posted December 05, 2006 10:00 AM              

i am especially curious abt saturn conjunctions with jup, urns or neptune, since saturn's energies are kinda opposite to the energies of these three. now if we hv a saturn conj pluto, both these two planets have similar nature. but wht happens whn saturn(restriction) meets jupiter (expansion), or saturn(convention) joins uranus( originality) or saturnine reality meets neptunian dreaminess?

posted December 05, 2006 12:51 PM              

First off, it's important to remember that if we are talking about an applying conjunction then it is important to note the year that aspect perfects by progression. It will be a culmination of evolutionary significance, depending on planets, houses and house rulerships of course.

Secondly it would be good to remember that the outer planets all tell a story and are *related*, starting with Saturn. The limitations, restrictions and fears of Saturn cause the wound, Chiron is the location of the wound, and the disconnect of Uranus is the result. This is why Chiron is so important; without it, we don't have a
connection between the wound itself and the result.

Thirdly it is noteworthy that outer planet conjunctions are part of a larger cycle -- the outer planets Uranus, Neptune and Pluto, move in tune with cycles and waves of motion within the collective unconscious. Jupiter and Saturn work within the realm of the known, on a social-institutional level, through the agreements, norms and laws with which we work, through cycles of prosperity, politics and visible social policy and events. In a transformative sense, these two bring through deeper impulses through their relations with the outer planets, and the cycles of aspects they form to them.

Jupiter, on a 12 year cycle, regularly conjuncts with the outer planets every 13-20 years, and encourages people to move forward into the area of life suggested by that outer planet and the sign it is in. Jupiter precipitates things and brings things to a head – whatever is lurking around to emerge into the conscious public domain.

The cycle of Jupiter's relationship with Saturn is worth watching. It is 20 years in length. They also create a mutational cycle where, once every 60 years, they conjunct at roughly the same place in the zodiac – traditional Chinese astrology is built on this 60-year cycle. In addition, successive 20 year conjunctions occur in signs of one element, the element changing (on a 'great mutation') every so often. The Jupiter-Saturn cycle is a cycle affecting organisations and institutions, socio-economic forms and current-affairs issues, money markets, technology and engineering, tangible energy and resources, production and consumption, manifest cultural changes and values, formal education and international diplomatic/financial relations. Note however that conjunctions mark beginnings, and in themselves represent watersheds: they might not necessarily bring immediate manifest developments except in symbolic form. The action happens throughout the cycle, with interesting crunch-points at the squares and opposition. When one of these cyclical turning-points involves an outer planet too – as was the case in March 1986, with Chiron interceding and forming a t-square from Gemini to Saturn in Sagittarius and Jupiter in Pisces – interesting developments can follow along which unfold during the remainder of the cycle.

Worth noting also are the seven year cycles connected with Saturn : it takes seven years or multiples thereof for a thought-form to be grounded into normal reality, to move from plan to actuality. This is more connected with the motion of Saturn than with its cycle with Jupiter. The movement of each of these through the signs brings through strong movements in the social realm. It is particularly worth observing changes occurring around the times when Jupiter and Saturn cross the quarter points and cross-quarter points in the zodiac.

When an important outer-to-outer planet aspect forms, definite unconscious or semi-conscious dynamics are set in motion in the group psyche, producing true transformations and breakthroughs (or breakdowns and failures, depending on our collective choice). These are times when dispensations are filtered through from deep down (or high up!) which lay the seeds of immense subsequent changes, even if they take years, decades or even millennia to emerge fully. To go a long way back, the last time Uranus, Neptune and Pluto were engaged together in a very major mutual conjunction was 580BC, at the time when Buddha, Lao Tzu, Pythagoras and Aristotle were about to arrive on the scene, and at the height of the Celtic culture in Europe: this could be regarded as the beginning of the end of the old magical/matrifocal world, and the beginning of a new, objectivised/patriarchal consciousness, which laid the foundations of our modern civilisation and whatever it itself is leading toward.

Uranus moves round the zodiac in 84 years, Neptune in 165 years and Pluto in 250 years. Uranus conjuncts Neptune every 171 years, Neptune conjuncts Pluto roughly every 495 years, and Uranus conjuncts Pluto either in 111 or 143 years (variable because of Pluto's eccentric orbit). Chiron is on a cycle of 51 years – eccentric to the extent that exactly reliable figures over a very long period are difficult to give. Chiron is closest to the sun (perihelion) when at 8 Libra (1945 and 1995-6), and furthest (aphelion) when at 8 Aries (1920 and 1970). Pluto is in perihelion at 12 Scorpio (in 1988) and at aphelion at 12 Taurus (1865-6). Chiron comes inside the orbit of Saturn at perihelion, and outside the orbit of Uranus at aphelion (note the symbolism – Chiron acts as a link between conscious and unconscious). Pluto comes inside the orbit of Neptune when at perihelion (1978-2000, closest in 1988) – and it swings far away from any other planet when as aphelion.

Hope this is helpful.

posted December 05, 2006 09:01 PM              

Also, i understand that conjunctions or urns,neptune and pluto r rare and affect the world consciousness as a whole. however, conj's of jupt and saturn with outer planets can easily be found in birthcharts of individuals. i wanted to know how these r interpreted on a more personal level, in an individual's birthchart. one way is to see whether the aspect is applying or separating. cud u give a specific example of an aspect formed between jupt and saturn conjunct entity with another planet, say venus, as i mentioned in my original query (isn't it obvious tht i hv this aspect in my chart )