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Author Topic:   Argument AGAINST First Meeting Charts
Kamots
Knowflake

Posts: 30
From: Cascais, Portugal
Registered: May 2009

posted May 14, 2007 10:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kamots     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi everyone,

Cafeastrology.com explores the use of first meeting chart as "a tool for understanding a relationship and where it is headed".

Magi Astrology basically says the Composite chart is BS and that the First Meeting Chart is the one who gives us info on a relationship.

I've thought about this and I think I have found a decent argument against FMC's:

If first meeting charts would indeed tell us the tone of a relationship with someone or where it's heading, then we would have this same type of relationship with the many people we would meet on a particular occasion (ex: a social event) for the first time.

I remember the first time in a new school where I met the teacher and the class mates and by the end of the day, I had spoken with all of them. Some became friends, others became great friends, a few became people I disliked and there was a girl I ended up falling in love with.

Also, if you think about it, the first meeting chart with our parents would have to be our birth chart (in most cases). It makes no sense.

Finally, the idea of a First Meeting chart telling us about the type of relationship with a person is competing with the concept of a Composite Chart.

You know what I think? I think we have to be careful with the power of suggestion and our thirst for knowledge because it's easy in astrology to find in a chart things we already know, or believe we know (which is often a misinterpretation of reality) about a person/relationship.


What do you think?

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MoonDreamer81
unregistered
posted May 14, 2007 11:52 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I wouldn't use ONLY a FMC to determine where a relationship is headed,but I would use it along with synastry charts and the composite.I kinda like to compare them all and find similarities.Just my 2 cents worth...

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S:Taurus
ASC:Gemini
M:Scorpio

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izodesmozina
unregistered
posted May 15, 2007 12:08 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I agree with Moon.
Hey, if you have the info, why not use it?? I am against exclusivity, in general. I am not the kind of person that would only use one method. I use all of them, make a general opinion and wish for the best! It is my duty as a Gemini North Node and Karma asteroid to check all the sides to the story . It is probably likely that there's some truth to all of them anyway - otherwise, why would they work for some people? Or maybe we haven't gotten that good with interpretation yet - but the fact that it makes no sense YET is no reason to reject an otherwise valuable method.

[personal opinion]


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I am an artist and my life is my masterpiece

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CoralFrequency
Newflake

Posts: 0
From:
Registered: Aug 2009

posted May 15, 2007 12:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for CoralFrequency     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I see your point, but for argument's sake ..

Maybe the Ascendant plays an important part as well, so unless you met all of them in the exact same minute.. that could account for differences. The word "meet" is foggy in this context.. I'm not sure if making eye contact qualifies. You could say that when you walked into the classroom you - looked at- everyone in the same minute.. but you must've "met" them all gradually.

There are 140 babies born in the world every minute (or so Iqhunk let me know - but they wouldn't all live the exact same life. The Ascendant and Moon degree would be different for each - unless they were born at the same hospital.

I know this is completely different to what you mentioned but it is still about the birth of something - whether we're talking about the birth of a relationship or the birth of a person.

Likewise, twins who are born at the same hospital, sometimes minutes apart are still *different* people. That doesn't mean their birth chart means nothing or has no bearing at all on their personality. It just means they play it out differently - through free will. I still think every person has their own individual soul, regardless of their chart.

In the same way, every relationship could have it's own heart and soul, depending on the two people involved. The aspects present in the sky, on that day, at that time – may be exactly the same, and you could meet two different people in that moment.. but the way those aspects affect you and each of them, depends on your respective personalities and mutual free wills.

I'd use first meeting charts as guidelines, but then again even birth charts are more like guidelines..

quote:
the first meeting chart with our parents would have to be our birth chart (in most cases). It makes no sense.

That's an interesting point. It made me think, what if it was our birth chart? In some way, it could make sense.. because your relationship with your parents might be what shapes your personality.. That goes back to "what came first, the chicken or the egg?".. Do you grow into your chart?… or.. Are you born with an astrological package?
If you take the view that you grow into it, through certain experiences in life.. then the fact that your relationship chart with your parents, is the same as your birthday could be, very significant.
I read that we spiritually pick the people around us - especially our parents. The relationship you have with them could be what opens you up to who you are..

quote:
I think we have to be careful with the power of suggestion and our thirst for knowledge because it's easy in astrology to find in a chart things we already know, or believe we know (which is often a misinterpretation of reality) about a person/relationship.

Totally agree to this! It happens vice versa as well.. when you don't believe you 'know' something, but because you see that something in their chart - you suddenly assume it must be true.

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Samhain Scorpio
unregistered
posted May 15, 2007 05:57 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My experience has taught me this:

The composite chart *with derived ascendant* gives the best picture of what the relationhsip is and what the individuals involved experience it to be. It shows the egregore they create through their interactions. For this reeason its also most valuable in drawing up charts for groups of more than 2 individuals like football teams.

A synastry grid shows the details of the chemistry and energy dynamic between individuals.

Both the above methods are reliable.

A chart for FM is not a valid chart of the relationship (it only shows the quality of the moment) UNLESS one or more of the individuals has the conscious intention of asking "What is this relationship about?", or some such question, when they first meet, and that person is an astrologer...Then it becomes a horary question. But the time of the chart is the time the question is first put to the astrologer. If that coincides with the FM, the chart is valid. I have found in these cases, the horary chart is incredibly accurate.
What does this mean?
It means that the consciousness and intention of the observer of an event influences it as much as the forces of astrology do. It means that astrology is a magic mirror. When we ask in the moment we first meet someone "What is this relationship about?" it places a seed of conscious intent into that moment which then fertilises the astrology so that it reflects the true answer back to you.

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Diandra23
unregistered
posted May 15, 2007 07:31 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
hmmm

Samhain Scorpio, so you do Horary Astrology?
From your experiency would you say they are accurate?

Thankx

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Samhain Scorpio
unregistered
posted May 15, 2007 09:04 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes in my experience its highly accurate but you must follow the rules and it is most accurate when your question can be answered with a yes or no.
I understand there is some skeptism still amongst many astrologers as to the validity of horary. You must look at the roots of this distancing. When astrologers started appearing in court (alongside mediums) charged with fraudulent offenses, astrology as a whole distanced itself from predictive techniques in favour of character analysis and horary was a sacrificial victim.
But as Jung wrote what is born of this moment has the qualities of this moment and every chart contains its own universal solvent or solution. Every question contains the secret of its own answer because the mind is universal at source.
What is most important to understand in practicing horary is that it works best when you are only asking questions of the utmost urgency. The questions which literally explode into your mind, or the questions you have given serious thought to.
It is a form of divination, in the end, which is what all astrological methods are - perceiving what the divine is saying. In horary matters we produce a question, and the chart helps us divine the truth.

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alanabelle86
Knowflake

Posts: 40
From: Somewhere over the rainbow
Registered: May 2009

posted May 15, 2007 09:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for alanabelle86     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, wouldn't a First Meeting Chart be like an event chart? So it would show you energies that may influence whether there is potential for a relationship of some sort to begin (like Transits aspect sensitive points in the individuals' charts).

I don't think a First Meeting Chart is personal enough itself to dictate whether a relationship is going to last. I'm not a Composite Chart fan either... because I also believe there's more to a relationship than just finding the midpoints between the signs of two people. (I prefer to use the Davison Relationship Chart).

What I would do in an interpretation is Look at the individual charts and the FMC in synastry and approach it as a Transit to their natals. Then I'd do the same thing with a Davison and the FMC, possibly backing it up with the Composite.


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Dulce Luna
Newflake

Posts: 7
From: The Asylum, NC
Registered: Apr 2009

posted May 15, 2007 10:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dulce Luna     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't know how to better explain myself but I'll say this. I think that the First Meeting Chart is ONLY relevant if the two people go up to eachother and say "Hi I'm Bob!" and "Hey I'm Sally". That's why it doesn't work with "First Day of School" settings because you all haven't really been formally introduced to eachother one-on-one. I don't think it really applies to a collective situation.

That being said, I don't think the First Meeting Chart should really have the upmost importance when determining what the relationship will be like (good or bad). Although I do think it has some relevance in telling where the relationship will go as mentioned above (whether it will be casual or serious). I mean when I met my boyfriend, there was some kooky sh#t going on in the sky (an eclipse) and there was some kooky sh#t going on around me (like the Red Sox winning the World Series for one). I even looked at my solar return for that year and it seemed to dictate that that would happen that year (meeting him).

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jane
Knowflake

Posts: 1277
From:
Registered: Jul 2009

posted May 16, 2007 12:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wow, this is strange. I was just thinking of a similar argument against first meeting charts only a few days ago. Growing up, I moved around a lot, so I was frequently the new girl in school. I'd meet all my classmates on the same day, many at the same time, and develop different relationships (or no relationship) with all of them. I personally don't think first meeting charts have any significance in describing personal relationships. At most, I think they could show the mood or vibe that was present at that moment, but individuals would react to that vibe in their own way.

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Diandra23
unregistered
posted May 16, 2007 09:12 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thankx Samhain SCorpio

Yes, iīve already asked 3 things in horary and for now, i found it accurate most of the aspects. iTīs very important thought,that the querent makes the right question,the one he really wants to know without beinf afraid of be answered a "no".

Concerning the 1st meeting charts,well,Magi says a thing that makes sense about it:

The 1st Meeting Chart is always changing:

- The 1st is the one the 2 persons really meet ( and knowingly touch for the 1st time);

- If they not saw each other yet ( for example,knowing each oter online,then the chart is the one of they primarily started to chat with each other);

- The next chart is the one of they primarily made love for each other for the 1st time. Then itīs called the Relationship Chart;

- If the 2 persons marry,their relationship chart is the one of their marriage;

They see as another tool of analisis, as well as the sinastry and transits

They look at it concerning the energies,thatīs why the chart changes whenever an important event happens between the 2 people

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