posted July 09, 2007 07:49 PM            

Moon/Mercury possibly even AC forming any aspect to Jupiter & Saturn..(because of it's connection to reality and a strict no "bullsh-t" policy)

Jupiter and Saturn radiate issues related to morality, ethics, honesty, reality, and integrity

The only negative to Jupiter is that a person could be telling the truth but they tend to exaggerate it quite a bit.

Lying...

Moon/Mercury (possibly AC) in hard aspect to Neptune and/or Pluto (manipulation for personal agendas)

I was going to say Mars because of it's connection to competitiveness and defense mechanisms (which many lies are built on- to protect ourselves) but I think Mars generally would just make someone have a very quick tongue. Like a person whose mouth blabs before their brain gets a chance to really process anything.

posted July 10, 2007 06:15 AM            

I said Neptune and Pluto because if you know anything about their planetary energies and influence it makes sense.

Pluto because of association with manipulation and secrecy

Neptune because of it's association with unreality, untruth, illusions, and deception.

Jupiter is a planet of integrity, honesty, and morality. Which is why Jupiterian people (Sags, Sag AC, and people with strong Jupiter) are considered *honest* because of an extremely high regard for truth and morality.

Saturn because of it's connotation with REALITY, and no bullcrap. With Saturn, it is as it is. And that's just it. So unless supported by other aspects in the chart, the inclination to be *driven* to tell a lie is low.

Even though, anyone COULD do it. It's more about what WOULD make someone do it. Some people are more inclined to fib than others for whatever reason.. (inability to say no, need to please, a love of privacy, etc)

posted July 10, 2007 11:46 AM              

I agree about the Neptune-Pluto thing too. tbone, I have neptune in my 5th house, and I lie to myself about the reality of romantic relationships. I tend to see things in a more glorious light than they really are. And its so subtle that it takes a lot of introspection and honesty with myself to be able to see what's really going on.

posted July 10, 2007 03:50 PM            

What are the aspects to his Sun/Moon/Mercury and AC

posted July 10, 2007 04:02 PM            

He has mercury square ascendant, moon trine jupiter, moon trine pluto, moon conjunct ascendant, neptune conjunct ascendant, and Jupiter trine ascendant.

Having a lot of fire doesn't mean one is 100% honest. Everyone lies or stretches the truth occasionally. But it just surprises me that he can lie so easily. Fire signs are supposedly honest, honorable, trustworthy and sincere, but my father, unfortunately, isn't any of those things.

posted July 11, 2007 08:50 AM              

"Jupiter is a planet of integrity, honesty, and morality. Which is why Jupiterian people (Sags, Sag AC, and people with strong Jupiter) are considered *honest* because of an extremely high regard for truth and morality."

Jupiter is huge and Sags represent it - and are known to exaggerate - personally I don't consider it lying, but it is intentionally misleading. Don't forget, you're describing the human side of Sagittarius, and ignoring the urrrr horses backside it's a dual sign.

Now I'm not trying to put down Jupiter/Saggies, as they rank high on my fav planet/sign list + I have a **** load of Sag in my chart - but this planet is not all butterflies and sunshine...it can be pretentious and self-righteous - blinded by the illusion that it knows it all and can do no wrong. Jupiter being the King of Gods after all.

posted July 11, 2007 10:03 AM            

Lots of people with Mercury-Jupiter, exaggerate big time and don't realize they're doing it or it's first nature. It's not that they want to lie, it's just that they make everything seem BIGGER than it really is. (Hell, I've got a 3rd house Jupiter...I can write a book on this ) I don't believe they are intentionally misleading, because for one, that wouldn't be a purely Jupiter influenced way. It doesn't line up with Mercury-Jupiter aspects...This is where other aspects come in that define motive and repute whether or not the "exageration" itself is in fact for some personal agenda or intentionally meant to throw off the audience.

I'm focusing more on motive versus what actually comes out of someone's mouth. Because in my opinion, a "lie" is a motive based concept.

posted July 11, 2007 12:43 PM            

quote:

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they're these perfect and honorable beings that can do no wrong

---

posted July 11, 2007 10:41 PM            

In a most objective and detached fashion, I have described a textbook definition of the aspects. I'm not tying a personal experience into it. I'm not counting every Sag, or Jupiterian person I know. I;m saying what the most basic influence would be. It's how the energies work.

We're not judging character. This is what it is. I'm not hinting at people being any higher or better than anyone else. That's not what this is about.

Astra asked a question. I answered it. Simple as that. Trust me, there's absolutely no favoritism going around, and if I even had to pick a sign to put on a pedestal (which I wouldn't do anyway), no offense but it's not going to be Sagittarius.

There are two sides to every coin..

Merucry - Jupiter : can be very truthful and straightforward, can also lead to exaggeration and misleading tangents due to an inflated sense of communication

Mercury - Neptune: can be deceitful and untruthful, can also be artistic, genius, and extremely emphatic

Mercury - Pluto: can be powerful, inspiring, and passionate, can also be destructive, manipulative, and coercive.

Mercury - Saturn: can be realistic, honest, and reliable, can also be close-minded, rigid, and negative...

posted July 12, 2007 02:31 PM            

In true Sagittarian fashion, shall I say

posted July 12, 2007 02:41 PM              

Jupiter is ranked my number one planet, second is venus, and third is pluto. Sadge is my number one sign.

I have mercury square pluto. I don't lie, but alanabelle's description was dead on. I am very passionate (I think ya all have noticed ) and I *could* be coercive or manipulative if I *chose* to be, but I don't choose to be. /

posted July 12, 2007 03:03 PM            

Uranus is seen as the great liberator, or the planet of "revelations". In my mind, I associate it with truth that isn't proven yet, truth we cannot see or, but that we know intuitively. Which is why the scientific connotation with Uranus makes sense to me. Science is full of theories that even though we assume to be true, they're just assumptions. And though our *instinct* and current "information" tells us that the possibility is 99.9%..it's that .1 percent we're still waiting on.

Which is probably why we associate Uranus with "breakthroughs" of all kinds, and the future. It's a vision and a truth that will come to be almost indefinitely, but it's just not quite there yet.

Which is why Uranus seems like a more "biased" planet to me than something like Jupiter/Saturn. Uranus will tell the truth, but often it's the kind of truth that leaves one saying "well, we don't know that yet". You don't dispute it as wrong or right, Because to Mercury-Uranus, the truth is "out there".

So.. While Mercury-Jupiter exaggerates
and Mercury-Saturn closes its mind
and Mercury-Neptune believes whatever it wants to believe as the truth
and Mercury-Pluto manipulates us all

Mercury-Uranus calls itself the "seer" and takes what it knows is real and factual... and just runs with it, but drags the rest of us along with it, expecting us to be able to run as fast.

That was an awkward explanation but if you think about it, it makes sense. Or maybe my tendency to overthink has gotten the best of me this time.

Kind of like..

Example:
5 people hear a loud barking noise (a dog's bark)

Merc-Jupiter: I heard this really loud bark, it was so loud and lasted so long, just right over there, it might a bunch of dogs or something, it went on so long!

Mercury-Saturn: There's a dog in there.

Mercury-Neptune: I didn't hear anything.

Mercury-Pluto: Yea I heard it, but all that means that if the dog has rabies or is vicious, we should go back on the other trail that I said we should have a half an hour ago. So let's go, if you listened to me before, we wouldn't have this proble and we'd have an half hour of free time to spare.

Mercury-Uranus: Actually, it was the high pitched howl of the coyote. There's probably a pack of them living just beyond that clearing over there.