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Author Topic:   Saturn Square Neptune...Loss of Faith?
EighthMoon
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posted July 22, 2007 12:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for EighthMoon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
On the Magi software, they interpret transiting Saturn square Neptune as one of the most dangerous transits you can have in terms of losing faith in God, self, higher power, beliefs, etc.

Is this an accurate interpretation...or does anyone have a different interp. or something to add? Personal experiences? It is a transit that is now happening.

Thanks!
8th

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misterhank
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posted July 22, 2007 01:06 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have Saturn square Neptune natally...

I almost lost my faith in God...but I've tried to mentally kept saying to myself that God is Love. Nothing else. My personal beliefs are strong and sometimes can waiver. But they're strong nonetheless.

"Why does Saturn hate God? God created man and was put on earth for a reason. But Saturn despises the theory. His reasons why is beyond me."

------------------
Hank Campbell
Far Rockaway, Queens, NY
*Sun: 8th House/Leo, Moon: 3rd House/Pisces, Venus: 8th House/Leo, Mars: 6th House/Cancer, Jupiter: 8th House/Leo, Saturn: 8th House/Virgo, ASC: Capricorn

"A gifted mind needs a gifted heart to sympathize others who are in vain."

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Rev. Alice
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posted July 24, 2007 11:08 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I should think it would be most apt to point to fear. Neptune's "dark" side is fear and Fear is "Faith in the negative."

The best way to overcome fear is through faith--or try using "trust" in place of "faith." That word is clearer in today's usage.

So then "faith" is trust in yourself, your Deity, and/or in "the rationality of the universe."

------------------
You are a blessing and you are blessed.
Rev. Alice
astrominister@hotmail.com
www.lifeprintastrology.com

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Lucia23
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posted September 07, 2007 12:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lucia23     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have this transit coming up at the end of October 2007.

(Around November, I'll also have Jupiter squared Jupiter, and a bunch of other tricky aspects.)

When I read about it, I felt like I'd been kicked in the stomache. I've been searching for a job for over a year (with lots of rejections), I can't afford my rent, and I fell in love with someone who doesn't reciprocate my feelings...all for the first time in my life. Usually I've been a successful and sought-after person. So the idea of some NEW transit that tends to make people feel insecure or low in confidence--help!! I don't need anything like that.

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Bucketrider
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posted September 07, 2007 01:58 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Saturn/neptune transits - and all outer to outer planet tranits for that matter are much more abstract than outer planet to inner planet transits which are easier to guess at. An estimate of how it will hit you is basically meaningless without knowing the house and sign. A saturn opposition venus transit will likely mean strain on personal relationships in some area. The house designation would tell the area. Everyone's venus relates to their personal relationships so an interpretation is pretty straightforward. Outer planets are too abstract and dont have clear domains of life. The houses bring them down to earth so to speak.

Neptune does relate to transcendent beliefs, the divine, endless compassion but also to delusion, passivity, paranoia. How that is manifest in a particular chart has alot to do with what house neptune is in. A 7th house neptune hit by saturn will probably be felt as a crisis of faith in the collective beliefs of that relationship, or the unconditional faith in one's partner. Saturn hitting an 11th house neptune might mean coming to terms with the lack of transcendent life in one's community and the need for more in some way. The whole thing is very nebulous and rarely does one clear interpretation ring true even after the transit is over. Outer planet to outer planet transits are much more general and unlikely to precipitate an acutely felt crisis unless they are aspecting an inner planet at the same time. Like if you have neptune opposition sun in your chart and saturn is squaring your neptune in transit, it is also squaring your sun.
I think magi astrology have many valid points but their biggest oversite is the lack of houses in their interpretations and an overemphasis on aspects (and only a few of the aspects at that). They also treat outer planets like inner ones which just does not work.

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Lucia23
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posted September 07, 2007 04:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lucia23     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That's helpful, Bucketrider.

My natal Neptune is in Sag in my 11th house.

I've had the transiting (Aquarius) Neptune through my second house opposing my natal Leo Sun and Mercury in my eighth house for some time, and I feel like I've really felt the impact.

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Bucketrider
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posted September 07, 2007 05:25 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Lucia23 - How have you felt it?

I am an aquarius it has been conjunct my sun in the 2nd house for the last year and a half. My general sense is a sig increase in sensitivity and compassion for people in general. Def an increase in the general awareness of every situation being just a component of something much larger. Occasionally more guilty and oddly fearful than I can ever recall being.

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Lucia23
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posted September 07, 2007 05:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lucia23     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I felt that the Neptune-Sun opposition (and Neptune-Mercury opposition) screwed with my sense of reality.

Over that time, I felt passionate feelings of love and attraction for a man who doesn't seem to reciprocate them at all. I have intense, detailed dreams about him once or twice a week, and every time I actually see him.

This is VERY unlike me. I am 33, and I have only felt such an intense connection to a man a few times in my life, and each time it's been reciprocated. When I've dreamt I was involved with a man in the past, it always meant that we would get together.(Not only that, but my minor attractions have always been reciprocated, too.) I'm usually good at "reading" people, and this has made me feel like I can't trust myself, my intuition or my powers of observation anymore...like I'm delusional and flailing and invisible.

If the upcoming Saturn square Neptune transit wounds my self-confidence and ability to trust myself further, I don't know what I'll do.

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Jazzebel
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posted September 07, 2007 06:11 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I just had TR Saturn in square to natal Neptune 28' Scorpio.......didn't feel a thing

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Lucia23
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posted September 07, 2007 08:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lucia23     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That's reassuring, Jazzebel...maybe I'll have the same experience.

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EighthMoon
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posted September 08, 2007 09:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for EighthMoon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Interesting responses all!

Bucketrider...
I recently had Saturn squaring my Neptune which is natally in my 2nd house. I also had Saturn contraparallel Neptune, so it was a double whammy. In terms of lack of faith, I think what it did was make the day-to-day seem like it was in the forefront and any active spirituality was pushed to the back seat.

Currently, I have Pluto squaring my natal Sun and Chiron (in Pisces)in the 5th house. Now THAT has been a real treat, lemme tell ya...(she said in utter sarcasm). These past couple of months have really kicked my butt with some incredible and painful life changes. Transiting Uranus is also opposing my natal Pluto in the 11th house, and the transiting sun is now conjuncting my natal Pluto.

I agree with what you said about the Magi Society not including houses. I don't understand why they don't and haven't found an explanation as to their theory of excluding the houses. It doesn't make sense to me.

Thanks for the input everyone!

8th

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Bucketrider
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posted September 08, 2007 10:38 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Lucia23 - I TOTALLY hear you. Neptune does screw with your sense of reality. Do you have your sun in the 7th? I also pride myself on reading people really well and have been told as much by colleagues and superiors in work as a therapist but with neptune I have definitely tended to be more trusting of people and clients when I should not have been. You learn, I think, to compensate for your sense of unreality and double and triple check yourself before following an intuition. The thing about neptune also is that it inspires you to really want to connect. You know that beautiful spiritual connection is possible, we just have to remember that the world is not full of likeminded people. As long as youre choosy, you should be ok.

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Lucia23
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posted September 08, 2007 11:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lucia23     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My Sun, Merc and Mars are in the 8th house...but I'm a very 7th house-oriented person (Moon, Saturn and Venus in Cancer all conjunct there)...I haven't known what to trust instead of my intuiton and observation! I love your idea, Bucketrider, of learning to double and triple check. I hope I can learn to do that.

I'm glad you mentioned the urge to connect. The plus side of this transit has been incredibly vivid and fascinating dreams. And I've made some really deep soul-connections with the kids I do volunteer work with...lots of them are so open-hearted still. And, I've made a couple of new friends who I feel I have an unusual deep spiritual connection with. So it hasn't been all bad, but it's been very weird.

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alanabelle86
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posted September 13, 2007 02:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for alanabelle86     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm resonating with this thread pretty well. I don't have Saturn square Neptune...

But I'm currently going through (t. planet first...)

-Jupiter square Jupiter
-Saturn square Saturn
-Uranus square Uranus
-Uranus square AC
-Mars conjunct Chiron
-CHIRON conjunct Mars...
-Neptune square Mercury
-Neptune square Venus
-Pluto conjunct Progressed AC
-Saturn transiting the 9th house...
- Progressed Neptune is conjunct my AC now..
-My Progressed AC has just turned to 0' Cap.
...pretty soon...

Saturn opposite Jupiter is gonna pile on too...as well as Saturn square AC...to a
I just got over Saturn conjunct my Moon on the 8th/9th cusp...

My beliefs and faith have been getting a joyride lately...

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heart cakes
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posted November 22, 2008 04:16 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
wow, i'm having this transit now and nothing of the sort. maybe it's because i have it natally (but in a wider orb). i agree with 8th that it seems like my life is just more focused on LIFE instead of on spirituality. actually over the last couple of months i've felt somewhat in limbo as my moving plans were thwarted and i'm still not sure what to do, but it hasn't felt really awful or anything. more like i just have to solve it and get it right; make the best choices. my faith in 'god' has not been shaken. yup god is love, and i believe in that 100%! i haven't read any interps yet, though. gonna go do that now..

edited to add: saturn is trining my moon right now exactly, so maybe that accounts for a general feeling of well being and like things are and will be OKAY..

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heart cakes
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posted November 22, 2008 04:26 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
woah, weird! i found this:

The mildest manifestation of this aspect will cause people to free-float for a while, while assessing the direction they want to take. The harshest might cause depression or other forms of negativity.

free-floating is exactly what i would call it. assessing the direction i want to take. wow!

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MyVirgoMask
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posted November 22, 2008 04:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MyVirgoMask     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yeah, I agree with Bucketrider...I've got Neptune in the 7th and the square transit has taken a miserable toll on my relationship 'ideals'. I'm not doing so badly with it though, because it's teaching me to think a lot about what I really want and what would work for me, not in Lala Land, but in this life

The other annoying factor of it though is that it's messing with my creative energy. And Saturn also has his brooding a*s on my 5th house sun too...writing, art, and most of my creative joys and WORK have been in a stranglehold. And yet Saturn tries to be all ooh do the work...You're SITTING on my work, you old twit!!

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rusalka
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posted November 22, 2008 03:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rusalka     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
i am having this exact transit, according to astro.com, beginning middle of october until end of july 2009.

right now i am going through huge emotional crisis, have changed countries, plus feeling kind on a huge stand by with my career. ah, and my self - esteem has totally abandoned me.

could someone tell me how can i check this transit on my chart, cause i don't know which chart to chose from astro.com for transits?

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Glaucus
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posted November 22, 2008 03:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Transiting Saturn was squaring my Neptune when my exgf broke up with me on April 2nd of this year.

Cosmobiologists tend to intepret those configurations rather negatively

but yeah...felt like I was losing my faith

Neptune rules my 7th house,and so it involves relationships

but

cosmobiologists would disregard that with their non-use of houses and point out that

my Neptune aspects my Venus/MC midpoint which indicate being idealistic,sensitive,empathic in love,relationships, and transiting Saturn(which they consider the planet of separations) was squaring that indicated dissastisfaction,trouble,disappointment,separation in regards to love,relationships

They would also point out that transiting Saturn aspected my Moon/Neptune midpoint,and they would say the transit indicated discontent,dejected,sadness,separation involving a woman

They would also point that transiting Saturn aspects my Mars/Jupiter midpoint which can indicate a breakup of a relationships, plans being restricted.


my midpoints, Mars/Jupiter and Moon/Neptune conjunct within 30 minutes of arc, ....can be written Mars/Jupiter = Moon/Neptune or Mars+Jupiter = Moon+Neptune. It's referred to as a "planetary picture." Those are considered important in Uranian Astrology. Magi Society calls them "Magi Quads." David Cochrane calls them "Isosceles Trapezoids." So midpoints don't necessarily have to be aspected by a planet and point to be significant. They can be aspected by a midpoint to be significant. Of course, if they are aspected by transit,solar arc,secondary progression,or even synastry, then they can be more important.


Transiting Saturn square my Natal Neptune
contrary. dissatisfied. Incomprehensible problems. Illness. Inconveniences. Suffering.
(started on March 27, 2008)

Transiting Saturn conjunct my Natal Venus/MC
Sadness in love. Alienation. Cooling of feelings. Interrupted harmony. To experience little affection.
(started on April 1, 2008)

Transiting Saturn sesq my Natal Moon/Neptune
- insecure. dissatisfied; discontented. hopeless. pessimistic. melancholy. contrary. lacking in self-confidence. dejected; mournful. emotionally distraught.
(exact on April 2, 2008)

Transiting Saturn sesq my Natal Mars/Jupiter
- contrary. works too slowly.
To miss favorable opportunities.
(March 22 - April 11, 2008)


Cosmobiology is a system that doesn't use houses and they use midpoints extensively. They take the place of house placements in their system.


The cosmobiologists use only 1 degree orb for transits. They use the same orb for secondary progressions and solar arcs which are used as timing measuring setups for potential events that can occur when triggered by a transit. Only the conjunction,opposition,square,semisquare,and sesquiquadrate are used for transits,solar arcs,and secondary progressions.


Raymond

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Lucia23
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posted November 23, 2008 02:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lucia23     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I just noticed this on astro.com:

Neptune opposition Sun: Snares and Delusions: "The problem at this time is that defeats in connection with others can be unusually debilitating. Feelings of discouragement and futility are a great danger and can make you want to give up, thus creating even worse results. If you are not careful, you may come out of this period feeling very badly about yourself."

But it's weird, because it's not like the "defeats" have been usual and ordinary and I've felt them more intensely than I might at another time in my life. It's that really really weird stuff has actually been happening in the outside world that calls my sense of myself into question.

"If you follow these precautions, this influence can show you a very spiritual dimension to life. You can become aware of a deeper meaning in life than you have ever been aware of before. The problem is that the road to this understanding is full of snares and delusions that you must carefully find your way through."


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heart cakes
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posted November 23, 2008 02:18 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
lucia23, transiting neptune conjunct sun is very similar to that. i had that transit a few years ago. WEIRD time with lots of weird stuff going on around me! probably, though, in a few years you'll feel a lot spiritually stronger and integrated, having gone through it

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heart cakes
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posted November 23, 2008 02:18 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
double post

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Tigerlily
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posted November 29, 2008 10:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tigerlily     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
When transiting Saturn squared my natal Neptune it was hard, I won't lie. But Saturn can bring reality to your dreams and rid you of your illusions which is a good thing.

In my opinion, the worst transit of the two planets involved is when it's the other way around, when transiting Neptune squares your natal Saturn. I had that right after the transiting Saturn/natal Neptune square and now that transiting Neptune is retrograde it's back to squaring my natal Saturn again.
I would describe the transiting Neptune square natal Saturn experience as being a time when your thinking is muddled and you can't see clearly (things are murky and nebulous) and your very foundation is shaken up and no longer seems sound. It's hard to make sense of things. And you sometimes feel you're sinking in quicksand instead of standing on solid ground.

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blue moon
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posted November 29, 2008 11:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for blue moon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This transit hit my chart not so long ago but it didn't work out like spiritual loss.

Where the transit falls and what configurations it sets off might give some more detail to the cookbook definition above and how it might work out for you individually.

On my chart Neptune is in the 1st Conjunct Jupiter, Opposite Saturn, Square the MC. So at the time my disillusionment was with a second job I had ~ I am quite idealistic about my work anyway, so the events just worked out something that is in me (if that makes sense).

At this time I also felt all-around tired and drained. 1st house, makes sense. It makes even more sense given that the previous couple of years had pushed me too my limits. It was a bit of a wind-down time for me, this new job just was too much stress, too much bad atmosphere, lack of team-work, lack of standards in the workplace. All that kind of thing.

Not great, but not the worst part of my life. There's a lesson in it, like most things.

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Astra
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posted November 29, 2008 12:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Astra     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
I would describe the transiting Neptune square natal Saturn experience as being a time when your thinking is muddled and you can't see clearly (things are murky and nebulous) and your very foundation is shaken up and no longer seems sound. It's hard to make sense of things. And you sometimes feel you're sinking in quicksand instead of standing on solid ground.

Tigerlily,

I'm going through Neptune square Saturn right now and you described this transit perfectly. It's a really frightening transit for me since it's made me feel so lost and I despise instability (cappie rising and moon).

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