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Author Topic:   More on Venus-Neptune aspects and beauty and illusion
GeminiLover75
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posted August 13, 2007 12:48 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just found this:
http://astrologyforthesoul.com/billstreett/vennep.html

For the Love of Glamour:
Venus-Neptune

with Bill Streett

Copyright 2005. All Rights Reserved


Often considered the lower and higher octaves of love and beauty, Venus and Neptune symbolize the broad spectrum of the social dimension. In both archetypes, we observe the urge toward human connection. Unlike the harshly competitive nature of Mars or the strict boundaries of Saturn, Venus and Neptune prod us each in their own way to form connection with one another. Venus symbolizes the very human and necessary function of socializing and partnering. Through parties, dating, and romance, Venus is the archetype concerned with how we connect with one another in a very personalized way. As the transpersonal counterpart of Venus, Neptune’s form of connection is broader, more expansive, and arguably more complex than Venus. Whereas Venus represents association and relationship with others, Neptune signifies union, merger, and loss of self with something greater than our self.

The Venus-Neptune pairing has its spiritual side, and it is often this manifestation that receives the most attention in astrological literature. However, there is a more prosaic and indulgent side of the Venus-Neptune equation that is as significant in its manifestation. One does not normally equate Neptune with a sense of worldliness, but as a complex archetype, Neptune has many sides, many faces. Even though Neptune may be considered a transpersonal archetype, this does not necessarily equate to higher ideals or higher paths. Rather, Neptune may symbolize where we fall into the allure of illusions, enchanted enticements that promise false riches and false truths. The Hindu concept of Maya, the sheaths of illusion that keep us from ultimate truth, is often compared to the astrological Neptune.(1)

Like the Hindus, the Greeks also understood the power of image as seen in their gods and goddesses. The myth of Narcissus warns of the vanity and corrupting power of one’s reflection. It is from Narcissus that we derive the English narcotic, the class of drugs that produce sedation and temporary well-being. Both Narcissus and the drugs that were named after his myth are involved with a state of stupor, the unconscious dream-like state. Within astrology, Neptune’s archetypal powers are often involved in creating profound enticements that have all the stability and rigor of a reflection in the mirror. Oscar Wilde’s The Picture of Dorian Gray is a modern adaptation of the myth of Narcissus, only in Wilde’s rendering, a crueler and more realistic fate awaits the man who so idealizes his own physical beauty.

It is often a manifestation of the Venus-Neptune individual to fall in love with their own image. However, beyond a narcissistic preoccupation with their own likeness, possessors of Venus-Neptune contacts can idealize the image of another as much as their own. Thus the veiling imagination of Neptune enters into the realm of amorous love, symbolized by Venus. Arguably more than other combinations, the Venus-Neptune individual is more prone to fall in love with the smoke and mirrors of image rather than the substance of the heart and soul. When the tides of “falling” in love recede, the individual with Neptune and Venus in the birth chart is faced with the confusing and disorienting situation whereby the reality of the individual and the idealized version they once held become two—the dream and the actuality of the situation are rendered separate. Love is often slippery stuff for the Neptune-Venus individual.

When Venus and Neptune combine, the physical beauty and artistic sensibilities of Venus combine with the allure of the imagination associated with Neptune. With this combination, beauty becomes intoxicating and physical ornamentation allows one to transcend the mundane and commonplace elements of this world. Thus, the lower end of the Venus-Neptune equation is the full-on decadence of glamour. As Liz Greene notes, “Glamour enchants us; the word itself is a corruption of the Middle English gramarye or magic, which holds us in its spell.”(2) Thus, magazines such as Vogue and Cosmopolitan are the bibles of the Venus-Neptune combination, their pages containing homage to the gods and goddess of enchantment and intoxication.

Fashion is the fingerprints of the Venus-Neptune combination; how we dress ourselves, how we accessorize, how we change appearance is the subtle ebb and flow of the imagination as it weaves itself in this world. Photographs through the decades are the still frames of the projection of the world dream created by the archetypal Neptune. String photographs of the ages together like a kaleidoscopic zoetrope, and one can see the evolving flux of Neptune wash through time. As Neptune traverses the signs, the fashion of the times is inflected by the sign’s archetypal energies. In the 1960’s, when Neptune transited Scorpio, the carnal, primal look of the sign came to the fore as women like Raquel Welch and Ursula Andress exuded a sexuality and wildness. Scorpio’s chthonic nature and primitiveness deconstructed the idealized “Donna Reed” look that epitomized the Neptune-in-Libra generation of the 1940’s and 1950’s. With Neptune currently in airy, ethereal Aquarius, a more waif-like ideal appears to have grabbed the collective imagination. What better example of this then the rise to prominence of Paris Hilton, an Aquarian with Venus also in Aquarius.(3) Hence, what we uphold as a fashion ideal is often reflected by the movement of Neptune through the Zodiac.

When one surveys the star-maker machinery of the last one hundred years, one sees that icons often possess significant Neptune-Venus aspects. These individuals are immortalized by image, and in an age where image is everything, they, more than any other type of personality, become deified in the collective imagination. A short list of icons with Venus-Neptune aspects include: Madonna, James Dean, Marilyn Monroe, Pam Anderson. Beyond their mutual affinity for the camera, these individuals are able to take on the sheaths of fashion—the maya of an age—and incorporate it into their physical beauty.


Pam Anderson (Neptune square Venus)

The story is now almost the stuff of legend. A young woman born in a quaint Canadian fishing village was discovered when her image appeared on a jumbotron at a football game. Thus began the saga of Pam Anderson’s longest sustained romance—between image and herself. With Anderson, we observe the strange partnering of herself and the cult of celebrity. She is both an example of the exploited and exploiter of her own image. Holding the record for most magazine covers worldwide for any star of her generation, Anderson is one of the most recognizable celebrities. Like Madonna, who also possesses the square between Neptune and Venus, there is a sense with Anderson that there is a compulsion around the propagation of her own image. And in both instances, controversial image has only served to bolster their fame, even at the expense of some personal integrity.

Brigitte Bardot (Neptune conjunct Venus)

Arguably more than any other role, Bardot’s turn in And God Created Woman intimated the sexual revolution that was to come to full flower in the 1960’s. With that particular film, Bardot was launched as an international star. Staring in films of little renown and creating music recordings with little imagination, Bardot would nonetheless be catapulted to iconographic status. Known as “Helen of France,” Bardot was considered to be the idealized version of beauty, the type that initiates epic battles as in Greek antiquity. Unlike Anderson and Madonna, Bardot did not enjoy the fame and publicity that was thrust upon her and retired from filmmaking at the rather young age of thirty-nine. In the 1970’s, Bardot’s legendary fame was cemented in stone as she was nominated as Marianne de France, a national symbol of France representing democratic ideals.

Marilyn Monroe (Neptune trine Venus)

Like Bardot and Anderson, Monroe’s career was launched by the camera. Approached by a cameraman at the end of world war two, Monroe and her image would serve to boost moral for troops at the end of World War Two. After the photo session, Monroe left her job as a parachute inspector and headed for Hollywood. Arguably more than any other woman of the twentieth century, Monroe was the icon of sexuality and attraction. Monroe’s ascent to the firmament was quicker than any other star in Hollywood history. After making her film debut in the late 1940’s, Monroe would be the top female star in the world by the middle of the next decade. The classic shot of Marilyn Monroe's dress blowing up around her legs as she stood over a subway grating in Manhattan is the archetypal image for the Venus-Neptune combination. Monroe’s craving for fame was one contribution for her ultimate demise.

Andy Warhol (Neptune conjunct Venus)

Following suit of typical Venus-Neptune individuals, Warhol got his start in his career through fashion, creating drawings for Glamour. If the 1950’s saw the rise of a new type of icon—Marilyn Monroe, James Dean, and Elvis Presley—then, in the 1960’s, Warhol revolutionized and intensified the entire concept around fame and celebrity. Warhol both initiated and epitomized the growing trend toward postmodernism, an era where style reigns over substance, where superficialities and surfaces take precedence over soul and depth, and where the boundaries between mass production and commodity blur with high art. With a Venus-Neptune conjunction in Leo, Warhol stated, “If you want to know all about Andy Warhol, just look at the surface of my paintings and films and me, and there I am. There’s nothing behind.” (4) With Warhol, the public imagination increased its reliance upon image, celebrity, and surfaces.


(1) In what can only be considered a self-conscious irony, one of the most popular and powerful software available for the creation of 3-D graphics is called Maya.

(2) Greene, Liz. The Astrological Neptune and the Quest for Redemption. York Beach, Maine: Weiser, p. 258

(3) Currently, fashionista Hilton is receiving the once-in-a-lifetime transit of Neptune conjoining her Venus.

(4) Strickland, Carol. The Annotated Mona Lisa. Kansas City: Andrews and McMeel, p. 175


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aqua inferno
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posted August 13, 2007 04:07 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you GL!

I have the square, in my case it's quite horrid. I was never accepting of my looks growing up, certainly no classic beauty, if I cut my hair I'd resemble a little boy. I never had the curves and never needed a bra. So I'd cover myself with a baggy blazer at school, while all the other girls avoided it - of course since I was so thin the giant blazer only made me look like a "farm girl from remote Russia" - virgo friends are so useful right? I find it funny now, but as a child it stings. I avoided looking in the mirror for most of high school - until the anorexic look was in, and girls were desperate to fit into my blouse - how things have changed... from farm girl to in vogue

I wonder what look pisces in Neptune will bring.

------------------
I wish,I wish, I was a fish
- oh wait...I am

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GeminiLover75
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posted August 13, 2007 04:40 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sorry to hear you were picked on... that's never nice (I was picked on for just about every physical feature! Kids can be cruel). I have the opposition, with Neptune in Sagittarius - I haven't thought about how it influences my image though. Neptune is in my 12th house (I'm a Sag rising), so I guess that's why it's not apparent to me. :P

I'm guessing that Neptune in Pisces could bring with it, for Neptune-Venus natives, a soft, dreamy, watery look? Neptune will be well placed in Pisces, so maybe these future beauties will be truly out of this world.

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natasha666
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posted August 13, 2007 05:58 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hello,

There is some more about Venus-Neptune aspects: if Venus is in Neptune house (especially if Venus is ruler of 7th), partner could be from overseas (I have this experience). Not only me, there are more such a people.

Natasha

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Sun sign Taurus, AC Libra, Moon in Pisces

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CoralFrequency
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posted August 13, 2007 06:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for CoralFrequency     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have the trine. I am not in love with images.. far from it.. very much so in love with the spirit.

lol @ in love with images.. I always criticize people who fall in love with images.

A better interpretation of this aspects would be that you are so blinded to ugliness, that you would actually see something beautiful in the ugliest things.. And whenever you fall in love that person really seems beautiful to you - whether they are objectively or not.
My first love was beautiful to me.. even though many people said he was bad looking and that I should go out with someones who's 'hot' etc, that I could do much better.. all that crap.

I couldn't give a rats behind about looks. If I fall in love with someone's personality, they'll always be amazing to me.

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GeminiLover75
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posted August 13, 2007 07:01 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't care about looks either if I'm in love with the person... I do have a stupid (but enjoyable at the time) habit of idealising/over-romanticising potential partners. I think I might have grown out of that, though. Maybe it was when Pluto transited my natal Neptune.

I'm not in love with my image but I think I use makeup and clothes to definitely make myself look way better than I look "un-made up", to the point that I look quite different.

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aqua inferno
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posted August 13, 2007 08:17 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks GL

oh dear, I'm all about the "image" of a lover.

Image consists of a lot of things tho...like intelligence, personality, life experiences, emotions.

zen-wise all this is part of the "illusion" or "image", and none of it is "real" - oh so Neptune.

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let ther b light
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posted August 13, 2007 08:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for let ther b light     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
found some more on this topic on this site:
http://www.astrodatabank.com/AS/ASVenusNeptune.htm

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CoralFrequency
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posted August 13, 2007 08:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for CoralFrequency     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm sure you look nice un-madeup as well.. GemLover.. Girls stress too much about those things.

We look great naked and un-madeup to, right guys? lol

I like matching colors, clothes, makeup .. but if anything I feel like it's portraying my personality exactly as it is.. not changing it. I show my personality through the things I wear..

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Diandra23
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posted August 13, 2007 08:33 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Thanks Gem for this thread.

i have the trine and my bf has the skuare.

one thing is for sure:we both look for an ideal relationship (which of course is quite impossible)-we do tend to fantasize a lot and live in dreams and illusions.we´re always romanticizing our future,even before having the real material needings for those dreams hihihihi -we have neptune both in Sag and my venus is taurus/his is in virgo ( my sun sign).

Yup a Virgo with a Neptunian head,imagine that !We do exist :P

about image- i can cosider that we are both very into fashion,looks,arts,i personally love to invent a lot in my closet hihi ( some say that i am diferent by my style)- but i think this comes from my Libra AC,and from his Libra Sun.

When i was very young,i do looked at image of others,and i still do cause i like to look at people about their style.
But...when i started to grow up i realised that most of my most handsome friends,can be quite desinteresting and bored,while others,who i found not to goo looking,suddently became beautiful to me cause of their personalities:made me laught,had capability of giving theirselves and be real good persons.
While...the others were so much focused on theirselves that the others doenst really mattered much to them.

Concerning my bf, he still gives a lot of attention to looks: im always sayin to him that what "looks" often doenst"is " what it appears to be.He stares at me and then laughs :P - and says he knows that - but oh well, with time he will learn that,mostly in his work time and about his own friends.

There are always exceptions of course:i also have good friends who are extremelly good looking and are persons who we can count on - the ones who arent narcizic.

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Node
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posted August 13, 2007 09:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Node     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Let ther b light's Astrodatabank link has some of my favorite writing on this. I have the opposition. ......
    Quote in Part
"You've Gotta Kiss a Lot of Frogs"
"In order to find a prince, you've got to kiss a lot of frogs." This may be a mantra for Venus-Neptune aspects, since finding a dream man or woman to merge with is their compelling quest. Unlike Venus-Pluto or Venus-Saturn types who can turn their back on love after being badly burned , Venus-Neptune folks commit time and time again. Finding the perfect love is both their dream and their delusion. Becoming disillusioned with someone they never let themselves see clearly in the first place, they move on to another who triggers their fantasy of the ideal mate – and another and another.

Frog-kissing can become a habit for them. Many are drawn to people who are wounded or flawed in some tragic way, believing that they can rescue them with their love. They may fall for troubled souls or even for rogues with a heart of gold, sensing their potential. This is in part a less than judicious use of Neptune's compassion, a gift for perceiving the unsullied soul that underlies even the most the troubled or destructive personality. The gift is put to better use in the service professions or in volunteer work, like being a mentor to a troubled teen. Even in the service fields, however, folks with these aspects must take care, lest some murky boundary violations occur. Respect for boundaries, in general, is not the forte of this aspect.

As a result of poor choices, AstroDatabank's biographies show that notables with this aspect are a much-wed crew, with four marriages not uncommon. Director Roger Vadim married five times, including such glamorous movie stars as Brigitte Bardot and Jane Fonda. Model Cheryl Tiegs married four times before settling down with a yoga teacher. Any list of the famous and infamous is skewed by the pressures – and privileges – of that life style. While the divorce rate is now 50% in many parts of the country, it must be 80% in Hollywood. The marital histories of ordinary people with difficult Venus-Neptune aspects aren't so extreme. Many of them, in fact, don't leave mates they ought to, because they follow the counsel of country singer, the late Tammy Wynette.

    Nebulous, dreamy, delusional Neptune -->gotta love it.
And I really identify with this......A Venus-Neptune Vision of Love
Venus-Neptune folks have considerable charm, but it's different from the glitter and pizzazz of Venus-Uranus or the steam heat of Venus-Pluto. It's an endearing, poetic, Irish brogue charm. It's a wistful, woeful, wounded charm. It's a buy me another drink and I'll sing you another sad love song charm. It's a you're the only one who understands how I've suffered and makes me feel better charm. It's a you're the most wonderful, gorgeous, perfect person that ever walked this earth charm. It's an I can't believe someone like you wants a loser like me charm. It's a when my record goes platinum, I'll buy you the Moon charm. It's a we're soul mates, and we'll be together forever as soon as I straighten this out charm. It's a you know I never mean to hurt you, I just can't help myself charm. It's a forgive me this time and I'll never do it again charm. They're appealing, all right, and we can get hooked on the pain of loving them in return for the rare, evanescent moments when they are truly there. (If you have a Venus-Neptune aspect, perhaps this doesn't describe you, just the characters you tangle with repeatedly, romantically and otherwise.)

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Aen
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posted August 13, 2007 10:39 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi CoralFrequency

quote:
My first love was beautiful to me.. even though many people said he was bad looking and that I should go out with someones who's 'hot' etc, that I could do much better.. all that crap.


LOL

sounds verrry familiar. plus i've always had trouble describing physical appearance of a person i'm in love with. most extreme case was with a guy whose missing teeth I noticed only after I've realised he is a cad. (which was btw soon after meeting and without any pain).

but i certainly have rather unrealistic and illusion (or is it vision, i hope?) filled understanding about love.

i guess i'm saved for falling constantly for illusion due the plutonic stuff in my chart. people's real faces just won't stay hidden for long.

------------------
No hesitation. No regret. No looking back.

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alvarella777
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posted August 13, 2007 05:37 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I do agree almost 100% with the description you shared from the web, Geminilover – I can recognize so many aspects of Venus-SQUARE-Neptune in it.

Yes, I am very obsessed with the matter of “image” – be it my own or other people’s “images”. It’s not at all superficially inclined! It is just that I am easily impressed by “expressions” of other people – because all these expressions/impressions could “mean” something. I analyze people’s images very much – often I over-analyze. At the end, I get disappointed quite often. QUOTE: “The Venus-Neptune individual is more prone to fall in love with the smoke and mirrors of image rather than the substance of the heart and soul.” – yup, I agree to 100%.

But I am also eager to make a good “impression” myself, i.e. to create an interesting “image” of myself. As easily as I fall prey to the (wrong) allures of someone, I can play that game the other way ‘round - making a “good impression” ecc. and “make” people like me.

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summerdream
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posted August 13, 2007 06:32 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Cheers to GeminiLover. Another wonderful thread! I can totally identify with the Venus-Neptune square. And My Neptune is is the 5th!
quote:
It's an I can't believe someone like you wants a loser like me charm. It's a when my record goes platinum, I'll buy you the Moon charm.
I can't answer the question "what qualities do you love in him?" Ten times as one, I just stared at the one who asked and sighed.
Starry eyes forever, that's me honey.

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clockworkrose
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posted August 13, 2007 07:16 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have Venus square Neptune, and I am pretty obsessed with my own image atleast... obsessed with makeup, clothes. girly girl stuff. but I wasn't when I was a teen... I was very awkward; dressed in baggy clothes, never wore makeup, wore my hair in a ponytail. And then in college... bam, I started really caring about my appearance. I wonder what happened? maybe it was a transit. I never leave the house without makeup or without my hair done.

maybe Venus-Neptune people equate 'Love' with 'Beauty'... in that in order to be loved/adored, you have to be beautiful.

Also I want to say, that this aspect has a positive side as well, as it is the aspect of the 'Spiritual seeker' and makes one very sympathetic.

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CoralFrequency
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posted August 13, 2007 09:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for CoralFrequency     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't know if this is a Venus/Neptune thing.

I like putting make up on and I like my clothes.. as much as the next girl, but I wouldn't say I'm obsessed with it.. I mean I *would* leave my house without it and -do-.. when I go to the gym or to the beach.. or to the corner shop lol why wear makeup? It'll all come off anyway.

At university I wear it.. at work I would wear it. This is because I think that in some contexts, it makes you look unprofessional to have *zero* make up on (which would kill my Cap moon) - if anyone ever told me I looked unprofessional I think I'd throw up.

The opposite (having too much on) has the same effect lol

I also enjoy putting make up on. It's a bit like painting or drawing on your own face. I like making things look pretty, including my face.. but I'm not hectic about it.

The thing is I also have Venus opposite Pluto so I'm not blind to the ugly side of life nor does it bother me to see it or display it..

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AcousticGod
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posted August 13, 2007 11:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have Venus and Neptune conjunct in Sag in the 7th.

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kate_julia
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posted August 14, 2007 08:41 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
A better interpretation of this aspects would be that you are so blinded to ugliness, that you would actually see something beautiful in the ugliest things.. And whenever you fall in love that person really seems beautiful to you - whether they are objectively or not.

I agree with what you said Coral, it is what i have found in most cases too. It all comes down to how you express the energy that is given to you.

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