posted August 17, 2007 10:42 AM              

Another quaestion: person with Pluto=Sun+Moon in the birth chart will be very Plutonian?

Could anyone help with my questions, especially the first one?

posted August 17, 2007 11:00 AM              

However, regarding your question on midpoint:
The whole midpoint theory has been worked out in recent times especially by the Cosmobiologists or Uranian astrologers. And those only take into account hard aspects, but also the minor hard aspects semisquare and sesisquare.

But the question is why. They say - and I have to agree to a certain degree- that hard aspects are the ones that make things "happen".
You can easily live without taking notice of a nice Venus-Neptune-trine; it`s there like a soft cushion, but you don`t think abou it.
But this situation changes drastically, if you had Venus square Neptune for example. This square would provide very much energy, and you really can`t ignore a square. You will be confronted with those Venus-Neptune-energies all the time, be it through deception in relationships, secret love affairs, falling in love with someone unavailable or unable to really commit. With a Venus-Neptune-trine you would probably have the same inclination for being very idealistic in relationships, but it would probably not lead to such challenges. In a square aspect there would be also much idealism, but you could easily add the word "too much" for a square here, and this "too much" is the "more than enough" amount of energy released through a square, and as I said in the beginning, you WILL notice that energy, as will others.

Or take relationships for example.
Let`s say with one person you share a Moon-Uranus-trine, with the other one a Moon-Uranus-opposition.
What is the difference?
According to my experience it`s the way you deal with the energy of Moon-Uranus. In the first case you would probably love the excitement and uniqueness of your partner.
In the second case your partner would also be very exciting and unique and independent, but too much, so that you could feel abandoned or accuse him of being unstable, fickle, unreliable and detached, and that would lead to a conflict. But this conflict is only there, because your partner is too independent and headstrong and unique.
Generally you like those qualities, but he kind of overdoes the thing. And as we all know we tend to ignore the things that run smoothly and refer to those, that don`t run all that smoothly, and we invest much energy to resolve those challenges.

So, I guess, this is the reason we only look to hard aspects to midpoints. Because a planet in aspect to a midpoint will awake this midpoint.
Your Venus-Mars-midpoint for example can tell you something about your deepest passions, but it is a dormant one. You don`t really have access to it (unless one of your own planets aspect it of course). This midpoint needs another planet to trigger it, to be awoken.
And now imagine, someone comes along with his sweet nice Moon and this someone is whispering sweetly into your ears (you are the Venus-Mars-midpoint in my metaphor btw): "Will you please wake up for me?" and Moon maybe even gently strokes your hair.
That would be a soft aspect.

And then imagine another Moon coming along, maybe the one with the instinctive lunar energy, we sometimes tend to forget, the wildness that Moon also can have; and this Moon will run her hands firmly through your hair and almost shouts: "Time to wake up. You`ve slept long enough." and maybe will even shake your shoulders.
That would be a hard aspect.

So, when would you awake more easily?

DD

posted August 17, 2007 11:26 AM            

The hard aspect (in synastry) is considered "good" because it's a "loud" aspect in a sense. It works as a beacon.

It's been said that one would more likely be drawn someone with a square/opposition/conjunction to their Sun/Moon midpoint before someone with a trine/sextile.

This is because the "hard" aspects force us to deal with them directly. They're packed with so much energy that they hardly can go unnoticed. Either they're directly experienced by the individual or projected and attracted from the outside.

Someone with a trine/sextile to the Sun/Moon midpoint of another would get along with them very well and convey a sense of belonging, comfort, and harmony.

Someone with a hard aspect would act as a magnet (or repellant) almost instantly. It may not be ultimately harmonious feelings but they will almost always be in motion, activated, and highly charged. Instead of just feeling like "we get along so well, she/he's my soulmate"...it may be "I can't stand him/her but I can't live without them either!"

Hope that helps!

posted August 17, 2007 12:05 PM              

But let`s take my Sun-Moon-mp as an example:
It`s on 21,5° Capricorn; now let`s say a guy has his Sun on 23° Capricorn and another one has his Sun on 20° Virgo.
According to midpoint-theory the one with Sun in Capricorn would get my instant and total attention; he would trigger my Sun-Moon-midpoint and probably arouse strong feelings in me, whereas the one with the Virgo-Sun could almost go unnoticed. Maybe I would think he`s a nice guy and get along well with him, but he most probably wouldn`t become the centre of my attention.

posted August 17, 2007 01:47 PM            

Like you, AG, I find conjunctions wavering in nature. I don't see them in the stereotypical "hard" aspect category, nor do I see them in the "soft".

They're almost in their own category because the aspect can go either way, and usually does! The planetary energies are combined so it's hard to separate the function of one planet from another, which can strengthen a "weak" planet (weak by sign, placement, aspect etc) or debilitate a "strong" planet.

I don't see the aspects as "bad" or "good"

Trines and sextiles don't pack the same kind of energy and force that oppositions and squares do. Yet oppositions and squares don't bring the kind of ease and smooth flow associated with trines and/or sextiles.

A trine/sextile can work just as negatively as an opposition and/or square. Sometimes, even worse.

This is why in synastry, even though I know all major aspects are important, I pay more attention to the conjunctions, oppositions, and squares.

You'll find that in many passionate, loving, and enduring relationships...the synastry is laden with squares and oppositions. It's because it's direct energy- strong energy for the two individuals to "feed" from. It's a constant feeling that something is there that needs to be dealt with. While the "soft" aspects can inspire the feeling that "everything is fine", a feeling that can get old pretty quickly (depending on the person).

posted August 17, 2007 02:09 PM              

I definitely agree.

Well, the terminology of "hard" aspects regarding conjunctions is used by the URanian astrologers; I`m not fond of it either. I guess they used it this way to discriminate the conjunction / opposition / square from the trine / sextile.
"hard" in this context doesn`T mean "bad", it just means "more energy".
Maybe "stronger" would be a better word?

And yes, I agree also on the synastry with the dynamic (even better as "stronger"?) aspects; I have seen it very often in strong relationships.
But I guess it depends on the people involved; those people also had very "dynamic" natal charts.
Maybe someone with very much trine and sextile, MOon and Venus influence in their horoscopes without the balance of some oppositions, squares or Mars, Sun or even Pluto aspects wouldn`t like too much square-energy. Just guessing here.

I also realized, that in most relationships there are similiar and complimentary aspects in the natal charts, like Person A has Venus square Pluto and Person B has Mars square Pluto or things like that. There would be an attraction between them, even without having looked at synastry aspects yet.

But as wonderful a Venus-Uranus-conjunction for love at first sight might sound on paper, what happens if person A has Venus in Aquarius in the 5th house conjunct Mercury or Jupiter, while PErson B has Venus in Taurus in the 7th house trine Moon?
I suspect, person B would have difficulties to handle the synastric Venus-Uranus-aspect (too unpredictable, too exciting), while PErson A probably would like it quite a lot.

*sighs* It`s all more complicated than looking at just one aspect.
Also, in my example with the Capricorn-sun on my Sun-moon-mp: let`s not forget that anyone born in the middle of january (of ANY year!) would have this. HOw individual can that be? They cannot all trigger deep feelings in me!
But what if this Sun is ruler of his 1st or 7th house? What if there are other Sun and Moon aspects?
I think, this Sun-Moon-mp may be like a "sign", pointing into a certain direction, but then you have to see if there are more hints into the same direction. A Sun-Moon-mp alone doesn`t make a soulmate or even someone you want to have a relationship with!

DD

posted August 17, 2007 02:18 PM            

quote:

---

And yes, I agree also on the synastry with the dynamic (even better as "stronger"?) aspects; I have seen it very often in strong relationships.
But I guess it depends on the people involved; those people also had very "dynamic" natal charts.
Maybe someone with very much trine and sextile, MOon and Venus influence in their horoscopes without the balance of some oppositions, squares or Mars, Sun or even Pluto aspects wouldn`t like too much square-energy.

---

I agree, I was going to add that into my post but I felt I was straying a bit from my main point.

quote:

---

I also realized, that in most relationships there are similiar and complimentary aspects in the natal charts, like Person A has Venus square Pluto and Person B has Mars square Pluto or things like that. There would be an attraction between them, even without having looked at synastry aspects yet.

---

Also agree. My boyfriend has a Venus/Uranus conjunction. I have Uranus opposite the DC and Venus in the 11th. Our composite has Venus opposite Uranus which you think would tear us apart, but I feel it's the best aspect in the world.

quote:

---

But as wonderful a Venus-Uranus-conjunction for love at first sight might sound on paper, what happens if person A has Venus in Aquarius in the 5th house conjunct Mercury or Jupiter, while PErson B has Venus in Taurus in the 7th house trine Moon?
I suspect, person B would have difficulties to handle the synastric Venus-Uranus-aspect (too unpredictable, too exciting), while PErson A probably would like it quite a lot.

---

Great point!

quote:

---

A Sun-Moon-mp alone doesn`t make a soulmate or even someone you want to have a relationship with!

---

posted August 18, 2007 03:47 AM            

summerdream, don't feel bad about asking a synastry question! It says right on the menu page that this folder's discussion includes synastry. If other people would rather discuss other things, they're big boys & girls and can start threads on topics that intrigue them. also, I doubt anyone's complaints were about this type of question, it was more an annoyance with "give me a free compatibility reading while i sit back & don't contribute anything to my own understanding"-type of threads.

posted August 18, 2007 05:52 AM              

I absolutely agree with you.
The comparision of the natal charts should be the basis of any relationship analysis.
And that Venus-Uranus aspect just sounds heavenly to me.
Well, I once had that with a guy; my Uranus was opposite his Venus, and I was head over heels.
The problem was: he had a Taurus - Moon and Venus - so, Uranus definitely was a problem to that guy!
In my case it`s more complicated: My Venus is in Capricorn, but my Moon in Aquarius just loved that Venus-Uranus-aspect.

On the other hand I once met someone, who had his Moon conjunct my Venus in Capricorn, a heavenly aspect as they say, but even though I felt "something", it just wasn`t for me. I`m not one to fall for those Moon-Venus-actions (Moon in Aquarius, Venus in capricorn again, I think).
But give me someone with Mars in Capricorn conjunct my Venus, now that is a different story. lol
Even though, theoretically this Mars in Capricorn should clash with my Moon in Aquarius, Sun and Mars in SAgittarius, but probably a Saturnian Mars is easier to handle for me than a lunar combination. Maybe this is because the Moon is so ultra-soft, and even though Capricorn is a female sign, it`s by far not as soft and gentle as Moon, Venus or Neptune (must be the Saturn in it). Also, of course with a Mars in Capricorn there is a polar attraction to my Venus in CApricorn - a Mars-Venus-thing.
Whereas a Moon in CApricorn combines with my Venus in Capricorn - that is more about sympathy and there is nothing complimentary in it. Or so I think.

Jane,

I never thought about it, but you`re right. I guess we tend to forget that the composite is really that, a midpoint-horoscope. We treat it like a normal chart then and forget that if there is a Sun-Venus-square, it`s actually a combination like this:

The Sun-Sun-mp squares the Venus-Venus-mp (of both persons).
I`m not sure what to think of this to be honest. But I`m not working THAT much with composites anyway. Have you found they work?

DD

posted August 22, 2007 09:57 PM            

natally & in synastry, i haven't read anything about how to interpret midpoints aspecting other midpoints. the view on mp's seems to be that they're receptive, so it's pointless to compare two receptive points...you need something else to activate them. yet with composites, that whole view on midpoints is ignored and the aspects are treated exactly the way aspects between planets would be. trines are "easy"--the cookie cutter descriptions list the positive sides of the planets involved. squares, etc. are "hard"--the cookie cutter descriptions list the negative sides of the planets involved. maybe that's the way things work when it's actually the planets aspecting one another, like in a natal, synastry, or davison chart, but why would aspects between midpoints respond the same way? also, if the general view on mp's is that they need a "loud" aspect to be affected--square, opp, or conj--then in a composite, wouldn't it be good to have many of those "loud" aspects b/c then transits would be touching all those planets at the same time, integrating the chart and making you feel all the connections? sorry to hijack, i think i'll start a thread on this topic.

re:whether composites work...i haven't studied enough of them to say. i have noticed that in the comps for many couples i know, there is almosts always a conj or opp involving sexual/romantic planets or asteroids. and some people i know almost always have the same aspect in the comp for all their close relationships (including friendships)...one friend usually has a sun-venus conj; another usually has a sun-mercury conj. in my composite with my bf, we have many conjunctions, squares & some oppositions. our graph at asro.com is almost entirely red. i remember when i first read the descriptions, it sounded nothing like us. it sounded like a relationship from hell! this is what first got me wondering if "hard" aspects in a composite play out the same as they do in non-midpoint charts. perhaps composites need hard aspects to link all those midpoints, and the emphasis should be placed on those midpoints being able to feel one another.