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Author Topic:   Gemini girl ditching manipulative Cancer man...any last words?
Aria
unregistered
posted September 24, 2007 09:48 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi, guys:

Well, I'm at the 2 1/2 month mark with my Cancer man and I think I'm going to have to blow the escape hatch, as it were! Even with everything I learned here about Cancer men, I think this one is faulty - aside from his Cancer tendencies...

Okay, a month ago he told me he needed things to progress slowly. I got it, with the help of everyone here Cancers take a while to feel comfortable, they're shy and they mask it well. They take the round-about approach rather than the straight forward one and they have issues with intimacy (especially after being burned.) However, do they also put their foot in their mouth as a matter of routine? Whenever the man DOES say something - I could just throttle him!

"Before you kick me to the curb, we'll have to fly out to CA so you can see how beautiful it is!" He tells me. Why would I want to kick him to curb? Couldn't get an aswer!

"You're going to make some man VERY happy because you're the whole package - maybe it'll be me, maybe not - but you are!" Excuse me? What does THAT mean? Why wouldn't it be him?

If my phone rings more than one or twice he'll say "all those men you've got chasing after you!" I've told him over and over again that I only date ONE man at a time.

When we talk about my ex (who continues to hound me, although I don't mention THAT to him) he'll say "Oh, you'll go back to him! Once time passes, you'll go back." This is AFTER I've repeatedly said that I don't do "do-overs!" I work hard at a relationship but once I'm at the point of ending it, there's NO going back.

Then he tells me he reserves the term "girlfriend" for someone who he's been dating long term. We're just dating, it seems...yet, two weeks ago when I asked, I WAS his girlfriend.

He's still on Match.com as an active member, although he's only on there once every two weeks or so. I'm on there too (that's how we met.) Now, my subscription is expired but my profile stays up. I considered taking it down it altogether but why should I if he's still on there? Well, he finally brought up the point that he still sees me on Match. He said he was checking to see if I was still there - I told him I was checking to see if HE was still on there. We laughed about it - THEN, he tells me that since he's gone so much, if I wanted to have dinner with another man, he'd understand. WHAT??????

Peeps, I was ready to punt this man right out of my house that night! Again, as a Gemini, I needed to talk this one through and through until I could wrap my head around it! Apparently, he'd understand - though he wouldn't like it. "Dinner is just dinner...as long as you're not sleeping with him!" He says. I told him that wasn't MY definition of our relationship and I wouldn't UNDERSTAND if he went out with another girl. He then said he had no desire to, that he was dating only me. THEN WHY THE HELL SAY SOMETHING LIKE THAT?

Doesn't he care that dinner could lead to developing an interest in someone else? Do I mean so little to him that he's willing to take that chance?

So, we're exclusive but I'm not his girlfriend? He's dating ME but if I wanted to have dinner with someone else he'd understand!? He may be a Cancer and have issues with verbal expression and intimacy but that's NOT the things a man who's interested in keeping a girl says!

Oh, but wait. I'm supposed to believe that he's simply "the strong but silent type." I'm sorry but that's just beginning to sound like a cop-out!

And what's with all the "before you dump me..." or "you'll go back to your ex..." talk?

He won't even talk to me on the phone when he's back home visiting his 16 yr. old daughter who KNOWS dad has been dating for YEARS! He's uncomfortable, he says...

Then heaven forbid he CALL me instead of texting me - even when he's here at home! When he's flying, I understand but when he's 20 minutes away and wants to see me?

Seems to me, this guy wants it all for nothing! The more detached he can remain, while still getting all the perks the better! He gives me just enough to keep me on the hook (like asking impatiently if I've developed pictures of our trip to Japanese gardens and wanting me to email them) or not letting 24 hours go by without texting.

Other than that, I don't even get a "you're on my mind" or "just thinking about you" or "I miss you" NOTHING! He's shy....he's not at THAT comfort level...he's the silent type.

Yet, where is all this apprehension in the bedroom? Nowhere! Looks like he's perfectly at ease with THAT aspect of the relationship. He'll "drop trou" at a moment's notice and perform like the Energizer bunny! And man, is he ever expressive! Nothing emotional - but he has NO qualms speaking his mind sexually!

In any relationship, regardless of who you are, you have to take risks - Cancer or not! And this little crab is about to be steamed! Can anyone say "Gemini girl played to the hilt by Cancer man?" Man, I feel like an idiot!

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MissTerious
unregistered
posted September 24, 2007 10:41 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi there, try not to beat yourself up about it. Even if you do decide (for real) to end the relationship, I am sure that you have gained something positive from the union, although it may not be apparent right now. I am a water sign (Scorpio sun), so I can understand on an intuitive level another water sign. I don't think he is trying to be manipulative I think he is just insecure from being hurt in the past. He still has not let that hurt go and unfortunately that is what you are getting the brunt of. When he says things like you are going to leave me for him and so on, these are probably things that have happened to him before. I haven't read the other posts, but I know that when my own insecurities come up within a relationship I find myself saying foolish things like your partner, even though the person expresses their sincerity. That is why it is important to let go of past hurt and pain completely before geting into a new union. Do what your heart tells you to do. I do think he cares for you though, he is very sensitive.

Be blessed.

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miss_muffet
unregistered
posted September 24, 2007 11:10 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Last words...?
"You go girl!" sound good to you?

He's way too insecure. He needs to grow up.

MM

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lalalinda
Moderator

Posts: 1120
From: nevada
Registered: Apr 2009

posted September 24, 2007 11:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for lalalinda     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hello and Welcome MissTerious

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mars446
unregistered
posted September 24, 2007 01:03 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ha ha ha, I don't mean to laugh at you Aria, I'm laughing at the dude ur talking about.

It is definitely that he's very insecure. You don't realize how insecure he is. When he says he understands that if you date another person, it is b/c he feels that he's not living up to your expectations in this relationship, that you'll get whoever you want, but he doesn't feel he can have you for himself. He wants to, to himself, say that he can let you go, but really, he can’t. As for the phone calls, he wants to know everything in your life (like if guys are calling you), so he is reassured that he's the only one in your life. I know, I know, you're there for him already....but when a person is trapped in his own box, he has to realize that he is trapped in that box before he attempts to get out. He doesn't think that he's valuable enough for you to stick around.

"Seems to me, this guy wants it all for nothing! The more detached he can remain, while still getting all the perks the better! He gives me just enough to keep me on the hook (like asking impatiently if I've developed pictures of our trip to Japanese gardens and wanting me to email them) or not letting 24 hours go by without texting."

He's in denial that has emotions for you.....he wants to be detached, but deep down, he knows he's not. He probably doesn't realize how deep his feelings can be, and I think, although u r more than welcome to refuse this suggestion (and I completely understand), is that you tell him to stay away from you until he figures out what he wants from his life, and I guess, if you want to deal with this or not.

Don't forget that most of his time he's on the plane, so he can't sit down by himself for long periods of time assessing his feelings. On top of that, he's a guy, so it's hard to assess feelings in the first place.

He's blatantly telling you that he likes you "You're going to make some man VERY happy because you're the whole package - maybe it'll be me, maybe not - but you are!" although he is annoying that he wants to play a bit hard to get. He's projecting what he thinks he would do onto you, although you are not like that.

For a person to know how valuable they are, it depends from one person to another. I knew one person who took years (like 4-5 yrs) to figure it out (b/c they didn’t trust themselves and others to take what others say that they are valuable to heart)…..and some others, it takes a good heart to heart convo, trust to do that, and a few days or weeks to do that. So are you willing to stick around for that long until he finds value in himself to say, “I deserve her, I don’t want to let her go. I’m human, and it’s ok to be weak, vulnerable, and to need others.”

It is up to you…

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Dulce Luna
Newflake

Posts: 7
From: The Asylum, NC
Registered: Apr 2009

posted September 24, 2007 01:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dulce Luna     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm sorry if maybe I'm clueless or maybe its because I'm just like him, but I don't see what he did wrong??

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MissTerious
unregistered
posted September 24, 2007 02:28 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank-you lalalinda


Dulce Luna
Your comment got me thinking, he probably is not aware of the emotional toll his behaviour is taking on her, so yeah it is right to sit him down Aria and have a heart to heart and tell him what is bothering you. It can be frustrating to constantly have to stroke someone's ego.

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Aria
unregistered
posted September 24, 2007 02:31 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mars - if this guy has ANYBODY to thank for his longevity in my life its you!

I SO want to belive that you're right and that he doesn't really mean the things he says but damn it, its SO difficult! He's his own worst enemy then! The scuttler of his own ship! He's the gash in the Titanic, for pete's sake! (does that mean that I'm the iceberg?) Anyway, I vacillate between just sitting him down and telling him EXACTLY what you said or giving him more time!

Ugh, I know I must have dated another Cancer at one time or another but I've never encountered anyone so vexing! Everything is about HIS comfort level and keeping things "light." What about MY comfort level? You should have seen us last Thursday, I had to straddle him and hand wrestle to get him to admit he liked me at all!

Then he said he's "reining himself in!" When I asked him from what, he couldn't answer (or wouldn't!)

Dulce Luna, I knew I could count on hearing from you! What has he done wrong? Well, let's see. He says things like:

"You can to out to dinner with another man - as long as you don't sleep with him. It's only dinner" or "you'll make a man VERY happy because you're the whole package - it could be me, it could not but, you are!" Then there's "Oh, you'll go back to your ex...just give it time, you probably will!" How about: "Before you kick me to the curb, we'll have to fly to CA so you can see how beautiful it is!"

Get it? What man, who really has feelings for a girl tells her these things? Understands if I go out to dinner with another man? Says he's sure I'll go back to my ex or that I'll kick him to the curb?

How about texting ALL the time instead of calling? Especially when he's here and lives 20 minutes away? He'll even text me to ask me out!

Yet, heaven forbid I refer to myself as his girlfriend or, ask him to be my date for a future event (like in Oct/Nov!) I swear he breaks out into hives!

Can you honestly tell me that you act this way, Dulce? Or understand this behavior? He may have feelings for me but he tries so HARD to affect otherwise that all he ends up doing is convincing me that he doesn't give a hoot and what girl wants to feel like that!?

Cancer man or heartless creep?

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hippichick
Knowflake

Posts: 588
From:
Registered: May 2009

posted September 24, 2007 04:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hippichick     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My 2 cents worth...

And I am quite jaded about Cancer men...

Creepy, insecure, psychotic, healing, caring, nurturing, emotive, gawd I could go on and on...

Your guy is insecure...and that is HIS problem, not yours...

A few good threads on LL have been started regarding the Cancer man and the Airy lady...NEVER a match made in heaven.

Until this man comes into himself, and that may be a very long time, he will most probably need you to reassure, tell him each and every moment you breathe that you care for him, that you are only dating him, that you love only him...and that will not even be enough.

If, as an airy lady, you want a challenge and want to put alot of blood, sweat and tears in to this relationship and truely learn from it, then hang on and be prepared, of not...let it go...

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Dulce Luna
Newflake

Posts: 7
From: The Asylum, NC
Registered: Apr 2009

posted September 24, 2007 04:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dulce Luna     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
ANYWAYS......


quote:
You can to out to dinner with another man - as long as you don't sleep with him. It's only dinner" or "you'll make a man VERY happy because you're the whole package - it could be me, it could not but, you are!" Then there's "Oh, you'll go back to your ex...just give it time, you probably will!" How about: "Before you kick me to the curb, we'll have to fly to CA so you can see how beautiful it is!"

Ok, these statements are kinda odd but I don't find anything wrong with them. If anything, the first one only highlights how very much into you he is. The second just highlights his insecurities which yeah, is kinda bad but something I don't blame him for given his past.

quote:
How about texting ALL the time instead of calling? Especially when he's here and lives 20 minutes away? He'll even text me to ask me out!

Ok, I'll give you that one, but have you addressed this to him?

quote:
Yet, heaven forbid I refer to myself as his girlfriend or, ask him to be my date for a future event (like in Oct/Nov!) I swear he breaks out into hives!

But I thought he did consider you his girlfriend? That is strange.

quote:
Can you honestly tell me that you act this way, Dulce? Or understand this behavior? He may have feelings for me but he tries so HARD to affect otherwise that all he ends up doing is convincing me that he doesn't give a hoot and what girl wants to feel like that!?

Yeah, I kinda have been that way in the past (sans the ambiguoity about the relationship status) and its something that p1ssed off the scorp in the past because I guess he thought I didn't care or was just playing games. Funny, that now I see it from a third party's perspective other than Scorp that maybe now I can begin to understand why it may have hurt him in the past. But no worries here...I've reformed.

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Dulce Luna
Newflake

Posts: 7
From: The Asylum, NC
Registered: Apr 2009

posted September 24, 2007 04:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dulce Luna     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
MissTerious,


quote:

Your comment got me thinking, he probably is not aware of the emotional toll his behaviour is taking on her, so yeah it is right to sit him down Aria and have a heart to heart and tell him what is bothering you. It can be frustrating to constantly have to stroke someone's ego.


As I've just addressed in my last post...DEFINITELY. I was kinda that way in the past with the scorp that's with me now and I didnt realize how much it affected him, I still understand but I have reformed out of consideration for his feelings. But thanks to this thread and a couple of others, now I kinda get why it may have angered him.

P.S. Nice name!

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mars446
unregistered
posted September 24, 2007 06:00 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The text msging......he cannot face u b/c of the impact of ur reaction on him. In other words......u got him whipped beyond silly.

There are two additional things you can do....have a heart to heart talk about the things that bother you, but use the "I" statements...ex. I don't like it when this and this happens. This makes me feel bad, etc, etc... Show your vulnerability as well, it helps him realize that he's not alone with his feelings and that both of u are humans (he probably idolizes you), now that you know why he's insecure...for ex. I know that liking someone a lot makes a person vulnerable, but you're not alone in this. I feel the same way, we just deal with it differently. I'm just hoping that you realize that I'm different from the other girls that have hurt you, and that you are as valuable to me as I am to you. And if he doesn't change (and this type of change doesn't happen over night), then break it off.

The other thing is to ignore everything he says (if you feel confident enough that you know him WELL). You know, we know he's being an idiot for being so insecure......so he'll snap out of it at some point in time...don't count that it will go away anytime soon, though.


Btw......before you do anything......does he know how to swim? (I'll let you know what this have to do with anything)

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marsconjunctmercury
unregistered
posted September 24, 2007 08:10 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Cancer men suck. They're so selfish and changeable. It's that simple. Why write an essay on it?

------------------
4th December 1974 18:00GMT Isle of Wight U.K
marsconjunctmercury@yahoo.co.uk
neutralcruiser@hotmail.co.uk

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Aria
unregistered
posted September 24, 2007 08:41 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The text msging......he cannot face u b/c of the impact of ur reaction on him. In other words......u got him whipped beyond silly.
____________________________________________

Girlfriend, if only that were true! However, what about the fact that HE was the first to originally tell me that he needed to take things slowly? That he sensed I felt more than he did/and faster? That maybe (due to my expressive nature) I was trying too hard? Yes, that was a month ago but, so what?

That sounds like a man who REALLY wants to keep me at arms length, doesn't it?

Plus, when he says the dumb things he does like the "dinner with other men," he does so with such confidence! Such aplomb! Could all this truly be an affectation masking insecurity? If it is...the man is GOOD!

I like the suggestion of having a talk with him and using "I" instead of assigning blame. My only problem with that is everytime we're together, we reassert the "rules" of our relationship during the course of conversation. I hold firm that I want him and he makes comments that come across as non-commital. That's why I get the desire to bolt - his comments make me feel like I'm the WAY into him but he can stand to hold me at bay. Then, out of the blue, an "I'm reining myself in..." comment!

I actually thought that after Thursday, when I grilled him silly, he'd split (according to what I learned about Cancers - they HATE being pressed about their feelings) He didn't. He's back to texting me during his trip - and using an endearment! (I told him I was tired of getting texts that could be mistaken for those he'd send to a golfing buddy) so, he knows how to correct behavior that bothers me.

Oh, and yes...he can swim very well. Why? Should I try drowning him?

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Isolaede
Newflake

Posts: 15
From: Sunny CA
Registered: May 2009

posted September 24, 2007 08:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Isolaede     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hello there Aria:

I’m so sorry things are so difficult with your crab. I see such sincere frustration and hurt in your e-mail, and the thing that grieves me the most is that I believe the root of your hurt lies not in a defect in your crab but in an inability for you two to communicate with each other and understand one another. You are both struggling with the same problems I think.

Let me help interpret a little in hopes you will if nothing else be less hurt:

"You'll make a man VERY happy because you're the whole package - it could be me, it could not but, you are!"

For whatever reason your cancer has NO security in your relationship. He does not think you are that into him. He wishes with all his heart he did, but the way you communicate your love is not getting through to him.

"Oh, you'll go back to your ex...just give it time, you probably will!"

My guess is your cancer, with his finely honed empathy senses your unhappiness. He probably feels he’s the cause, and consequently he’s looking at every man that had a part in your life, and that comes into your life as a threat. He compares himself to them, and figures they are probably far better for you than he is (since he’s making you so unhappy). He doesn’t want to loose you, but at this point he’s trying to mentally prepare himself for your departure. On the flip side, he’s also hoping that when he says these things you’ll reassure him verbally that he’s the one for you so he can quiet his nagging sense that you are just not meant for him.

"Before you kick me to the curb, we'll have to fly to CA so you can see how beautiful it is!"

See the above comments, but this statement just reinforces that he truly wants you in his life, and he’s hoping you come around and be happy with him.


"You can to out to dinner with another man - as long as you don't sleep with him. It's only dinner"

In all sincerity I think he’s testing your loyalty here, and I don’t think it’s a game. Again, he doesn’t have confidence that you love him and want only him, so he’s trying to see if you’d be happier perusing other man. If you agreed to have dinner with other guys, I grantee he’d let you go. He wants you to be happy, but he also needs loyalty.

As for texting instead of calling – I think he’s probably trying to be polite. I know it’s odd, but if he really expects you are dating other man, he doesn’t want to be “that guy” that calls fifty times and annoys you. Oddly enough, his insecurity over you makes him 1000 times more cautious and politely reserved that he would be normally.

Now, my dear Aria, I want to reassure you that you are probably doing NOTHING wrong. I truly believe you and this gentleman have a profound inability to understand one another perhaps due to astrological incompatibility. I find his actions completely understandable, because I’m a Cancer and I get Cancers. But you are confused and hurt by them. I’m guessing he’s confused and hurt by your actions too. You are not meeting his emotional needs or giving him the reassurance, and comfort he needs in relationships. That doesn’t mean you can’t, but from the frustration levels you are experiencing now, I think it is probably best for both of you if you lovingly part ways.

If you can find it in your heart to try to understand him and press on, you will always have a handful of caring “Cancer translators” here to help you understand our crabby ways. : )

Hugs,

Isolaede

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mars446
unregistered
posted September 24, 2007 11:12 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ha ha, I luv ur sense of humor.

That's great that he knows how to correct his behavior!!!! That's something guys don't do, especially someone who posted his msg before yours.

"Girlfriend, if only that were true! However, what about the fact that HE was the first to originally tell me that he needed to take things slowly? That he sensed I felt more than he did/and faster? That maybe (due to my expressive nature) I was trying too hard? Yes, that was a month ago but, so what?"

Ah ha! U said the magic phrase..."that was a month ago." People fail to realize that others can take a long time to fall for someone, but when they do, they fall so hard and so fast it's freaking scary. He was saying that b/c he was starting to feel that he is falling for you, but he wants to keep control over his feelings, and he knows that if that dam breaks, he won't be able to control himself. You probably didn’t sense that he fell for you recently.

To be continued...

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mars446
unregistered
posted September 24, 2007 11:14 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Continuing... stupid post doesn't let me post everything.

Moreover, you still think that there is something wrong with you, that you are “trying too hard.” There is nothing wrong with you, it is him. He is trying to keep his balance, he trying to keep the dam intact. Personally, when someone expresses their emotions to me, even if it just a female friend (I’m a grl by the way), I say that I’m not emotionally expressive b/c I don’t want to admit to myself that I am, or can be.

Darling, you fail to try to see things from his perspective.....think about it from his point of view, and you'd see it quite clearly. But why the hell am I here for ?

In one language, the root word for heart is change. The heart changes from one moment to the next. Trust that anyone’s heart changes, and the more it goes through changes, the more it feels.

To be continued...

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mars446
unregistered
posted September 24, 2007 11:15 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Continuing...

It’s great that you do not mask your feelings, but realize others have a NEED to mask their feelings. It is like 2nd skin to do so. He is one of them. He wants to see if you will be steadfast, or you’ll be just like other people…if you are interested enough in him to stick around. This is not about loyalty, this about how valuable he is to you…rememeber, we are talking about insecurity and values here. If he is valuable to you, everything else will fall into place (and I know that you value him…..HE doesn’t know that).

As scary as it might seem, people sometimes need to be confronted....b/c then, they feel they don’t have to hide anything from the other anymore, that the other accepts them for who they are. If you truly care, you will delve in beyond all walls that he has put up. Unfortunately, people these days don’t care to give time to anything. People are starving emotionally, including him.

Isolaede might have a point, although I courteously disagree with her. I’m not a crab, so I don’t know. However, I do know that I was in his position, and know how it feels like to be insecure.

And no, don’t try drowning him….he’s already drowning in your love I asked you if he knows how to swim or not b/c love is like the sea. If you know how to swim, you won’t drown. But if you panick, you will drown. He’s panicking, and that’s why he’s splashing and making a ruckus. But if he trusts his emotional instincts, as he should b/c that’s what being human is all about, then he will be able to swim and be the most loving person he can ever be. Tell him that, and he is sure to relax, because I’m sure he would remember what it is like to panick when trying to float, and when he finally was able to float, it was because he was able to relax. Tell him that if he relaxes with you, he’ll feel so much better and both of you will be able to solidify your relationship even further. And if he is having a problem relaxing, tell him that you are receptive and more than willing to help him relax, or even empathetically teach him to do so. He will be more than grateful that you are trying to go out of your way to make him feel that the relationship is not just a regular chair or bed to rest on, or even out of silk and velvet, but that it is made of clouds…and as you know, having that perfect feeling of rest, security, heavenly idealism is very rare to find.

Guys are like children, and ignore anyone who states otherwise or makes a gender fight in this forum. There is even research to back this up (that’s a different discussion). Treat him like you would treat a newborn, very gently, especially when this newborn has had some pretty bad damage, and he will be able to grow up in your care. If you know how to mold children the right way, you will definitely know how to mold him. I’m not saying change him, because men don’t change…women do. But molding him in the sense that knowing how to guide his behavior without him knowing that you are doing so. This is a speciality in women, and you should learn doing that. Also, I heard or read somewhere (don’t remember) that a woman has to give at least 60% in the relationship to make it survive. Unfortunately this is the burden women have to deal with if anything is going to last.

Lastly, as for his behavior….I’m sure you heard this phrase “The heart has its reasons, of which the mind knows nothing.” Don’t assess his behavior by logic, assess it by looking at it from an emotional point of view.

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mars446
unregistered
posted September 24, 2007 11:37 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
PS The fact that he says he wants to be distant or allowing you to date other men is not b/c he doesn't value you, he doesn't value himself. He doesn't place any importance to himself, b/c if he does, then he has to be demanding, and if he's demanding, then he has expectations of others, and if they don't fulfill his expectations, then he is disappointed. When he has been frequently disappointed, he is hurt and doesn't want to be hurt anymore. In order not to be hurt, he becomes emotionless. To do that he stops expecting things from people, he stops being demanding, and when you stop being demanding, b/c you feel you shouldn't demand things from others, you are unconsciously devaluing yourself...he doesn't want to be imposing....what's the point of dreaming the best of people when you're going to be disappointed in the end, b/c people don't even care to try to show their care to you by fulfilling your expectations...that they dismiss what you consider important, and whatever is important to you is a part of you, and when parts of you are dismissed as unimportant, then you are not important?.....hence not valued, and you start believing that unconciously.

Make him feel that it is worth it to be demanding, to feel valued and be valuable to himself, and just b/c he was disappointed, doesn't mean that anything is wrong w/ him.....it is b/c others are not worthy of him, not vice versa.

As I am advising you, I realize things at the same time. This post was an epiphany while I was writing the previous three posts. I hope this helps. Like I said, this guy is great...don't lose him b/c his behavior is puzzling. You shouldn't believe everything b/c it's been told......read b/w the lines and use your experiences or others' experiences to understand what is going on around you. But just b/c not everything is true to you, doesn't mean you shouldn't take both sides into account. It may not help to consider the false side now, but it may help you in the future.

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Seeing Stars 7.21
Knowflake

Posts: 137
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted September 25, 2007 12:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Seeing Stars 7.21     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

I agree with Miss Terious...

If you want the relationship to work you have to work to change him and reassure him.. Anyone can be insecure and it causes bad things in people... but Cancers are generally already insecure .. so when they have bad past experiences it doesnt work good.. they find difficulty committing and when they do they are controlling and worried... but that applies to the ones that have bad past.. I dont know how people are writing so much.. its very simple.

Its funny cause My Saggitarius Cousin is actually more insecure than I am.. or anybody I know, hes 21 ... his ex had to break it off temporarily becuase of the bombarding of questions...possesiveness.. insecurity.. not to mention she paying like half of his expenses and bills and living with her.. very dependent and childish at the same time.. I still love him and I know hes working at it... but that was just for MCM .. heh..

Aria .. lay out the line with him.. tell him how things better be.. tell him how you feel.. comfort him and reassure him.. you cant go wrong with this.. tell him what you tell us.. tell him it needs to change and tell him that he can trust and love you.. and just in general tell him your feelings...

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cancerrg
unregistered
posted September 25, 2007 03:51 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
:::
Cancer man or heartless creep:::

Not Exactly !
if you se it from cancer' persepective .

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jane
Knowflake

Posts: 1277
From:
Registered: Jul 2009

posted September 25, 2007 04:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It's incredibly difficult to restructure the way you view reality, especially if that restructuring would open you up to more pain. From what he's known, love doesn't last & women aren't loyal. That's just the way life has been for him. Since that's how it's been, that's how he thinks it will always be. Starting to view love as permanent & reliable will be difficult for him, but probably not impossible. If you're still interested in continuing things with him, let him know the type of woman you are. If when you love, it's forever, let him know that. If when you're committed, you don't want the company of other men, let him know that too. Knowing that you're different from the women who have hurt him will help him grow, but mostly he needs to change the way he views the world. Your reassurance will help him do that, but ultimately trusting another person is a leap of faith he has to choose to make.

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Aria
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posted September 25, 2007 09:14 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dog-gone it! So many people can't be wrong...

SeeingStars: to you it may seem like a dissertation (and a waste of time) to unravel this but it is excrutiatingly difficult to see insecurity when its masked by such bravado! If he were nervous, edgy or stuttered over his words when he's around me then I'd be able to see the insecurity BUT, for better or worse, he's mastered the ability to come across as confident, aloof and restrained while at the same time telling me outright that he wants to go slow, that I can go out to dinner with other men and that "girlfriend" is a bit too serious a term for him. So you see, when you put the whole thing together the illusion is powerful and easy to believe. He BEHAVES like a confident, self-assured man so when he SAYS things they come across at face value and totally genuine! For someone who isn't used to dealing with insecurity (not that I'm impervious) and masking what they truly feel, it is unimaginable that someone could be deliberately misleading to protect his feelings. That's what reading all these posts are teaching me - to decode and understand his behavior.

Mars, you are a wealth of perspective and knowledge! Yes I can put him at ease and try to see past the walls but I have a very unwilling participant here! I mentioned that he'd never gone 24 hours without texting...well, he just did and why? Because when he sent me a text Sunday night I was with a friend from out of town (a girl, mind you and he knew about the visit ahead of time) and my response was for him to call me when he could because I wanted to hear how his daughter's surprise sweet 16 party went (something you can't really have a chat about via text!) Not a sound since then! I hope you caught the magic word in the text I sent...CALL!

Yes, he's called before - weeks ago now when he was stuck in an airport on his way back and we chatted nicely but like you said, that was THEN, this is NOW. For all of you who are helping me to see things from this Cancer's perspective, now look at it from a Gemini's. I interpret that one of two ways: He doesn't want to be forced to call when I ask him to so he won't call AND now he won't text OR he can't be bothered to take the time to call me and that comes across as uncaring and dismissive...and no, he's NOT too busy! If he can text, he can call if only to say hello. So, doesn't he miss me? Doesn't he want to hear my voice? Conclusion: No, he doesn't so why should I spend any more time sharing myself with a man who doesn't want me? See what I mean, guys?

With everyone's help I'm trying not to be analytical or overly sensitive but its tough with air signs...we're expressive and we read lack of expression (or expressing misleading comments) as lack of affection. Add to that the fact that I'm a girl who is intimate with this man and the feeling of "I'm being SO totally used here" is almost overwhelming!

I've always gone by the adage "people show you who they are...believe them!" And what is he showing me by not calling and by saying things he doesn't mean? That he doesn't value me or care! In the past, I've given in and established contact but now the question is why should I? If he doesn't care then blast him! According to what I'm reading, doing just that would make him even MORE insecure (he tested me - I dropped him - I failed test - he was right in being cautious, aloof and reserved.)

From a Gemini's point of view, he's said EVERYTHING he can to indicate that he's not in too deep, wants to keep it light. He won't even take the time to call me! What's a girl to do? Ditch! I don't stay where I'm not wanted!

So, I can call and reassure him by doing so that I'm still here for him OR, I can hold my ground (not be played) but inadvertently make him even more insecure! Plus, what would that type of conditioning do? In my mind, it would simply teach him that he can pull back and I'll always come forward - what girl on earth wants to feel like they're at a man's feet? I mean, I have a sense of self worth and dignity too!

It's all very counter intuitive! Looking back - everything you guys have said is absolutely right! He's even TOLD me some of these things (he's shy, but hides it well...not expressive...reining himself in...uses humor to deflect emotionally uncomfortable situations - like when I pin his arse to the ground and try to pry him open - when he's in, he's in for good and that other women have called him gooey, overly sentimental, possessive and too lovey-dovey) but again, HOW DO I KNOW HE'S ON HIS WAY TO FEELING THAT WAY ABOUT ME WHEN HE SAYS/DOES EVERYTHING TO THE CONTRARY?

Yes, Mars..SS...Iso...Canc...that's why you guys are here I guess! To keep this Cancer man from being boiled alive (I do believe he's a good person) and this Gemini girl from having her heart crushed by his claw!

*sigh*

And Mars - he can swim AND he can fly! He just can't seem to hit "dial" on his cellphone!

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Dulce Luna
Newflake

Posts: 7
From: The Asylum, NC
Registered: Apr 2009

posted September 25, 2007 09:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dulce Luna     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
: to you it may seem like a dissertation (and a waste of time) to unravel this but it is excrutiatingly difficult to see insecurity when its masked by such bravado! If he were nervous, edgy or stuttered over his words when he's around me then I'd be able to see the insecurity BUT, for better or worse, he's mastered the ability to come across as confident, aloof and restrained while at the same time telling me outright that he wants to go slow, that I can go out to dinner with other men and that "girlfriend" is a bit too serious a term for him. So you see, when you put the whole thing together the illusion is powerful and easy to believe. He BEHAVES like a confident, self-assured man so when he SAYS things they come across at face value and totally genuine! For someone who isn't used to dealing with insecurity (not that I'm impervious) and masking what they truly feel, it is unimaginable that someone could be deliberately misleading to protect his feelings. That's what reading all these posts are teaching me - to decode and understand his behavior.

Exactly, it is just a mask. The words should tell you that.

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Seeing Stars 7.21
Knowflake

Posts: 137
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted September 25, 2007 09:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Seeing Stars 7.21     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yea but you see it really is simple...


Hes such a fake.. does he really mean all the stuff he sais? NO. Hes acting.. or as you call it wearing a mask.. Hes only presenting you with these options so that he will find your true intentions.. and to see how you really are.. does he really want you to go to dinner with others. no. he is someone else inside.. he has been hurt therfore he fears commitment.. its basic instinct.. you do something you feel comfortable doing > you get hurt > next time you are very cautious doing that same thing again.. hes not going to give you much power over him.. its nature.. live with that.. but you can try to help him be comfortable and reassurance.. and hes not going to show you much comittment cause well that would mean you have an effect on him.. If you left him today as much as he would try to play it off as nothing.. he would be crying inside or later that night in hise bed..

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