Saturn, Scorpio and relationships

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Author	Topic: Saturn, Scorpio and relationships
Bucketrider unregistered	posted January 14, 2008 04:35 PM The traditional rulerships that we have inherited have long outlived their relevance. Aside from the fact that there is a total lack of symmetry to the current system (i.e., pluto/scorpio - AFTER pisces/neptune) many of the associations between signs and rulsership planets are superficial and seem to hone in on one fact that both have in common but do not resonate with the sign as an archetype. My experience of saturn in relationships is that it is absolutely essential. Its necessity in relationships of all kinds is one of the most consistent astrological facts. There is no longevity without it and there is often no substantive sexual attraction without it. It is possessive, can be controlling, manipulative and trust issues are an ongoing factor. Saturn in synastry in hard aspect with any personal planet will often have those dynamics to contend with. These are all scorpio traits. Not capricron. Saturn is much more of a relationship planet than jupiter, mars, mercury, sun, uranus, neptune or pluto. Why is that??? Why is it the most commonly found planet in aspect in marriages? None of this goes with capricorn. Capricorn is not fundamentally a relationship sign. It is about status and achievement. Further, saturn is transformational. As any who have gone through a saturn return or hard transit to sun or personal planet can tell you. You are forced to step up and make real changes. You are forced to survive in difficult circumstances and thereby transform the area of focus by the transit. There is a need to develop intense discipline and determination. These are scorpio qualities. Saturn is emotionally intense, demanding, often pessimistic, cautious, suspiscious, and intensely connected. It is about being forever connected. It is the glue. These are all scorpio qualities. Scorpio is also far more potentially negative than any capricron I ever met. This is also consistent with a saturn rulership. Capricorn is ambitious, service oriented, humble, guiding, leading, knowledge oriented. It is not about longevity in relationships. (I can say this - having venus in capricorn). Saturn is about developing a solid core and about surviving tests and trials. Capricorn does not resonate with that kind of intense struggle and difficulty. It is missing that intensity and drama. Its stamina and ambition are less about the self and more about external achievement and society. Thinking about the collective and greater good. Saturn is almost always personal and intimate in its focus. I have an idea of what rules capricorn but Ill leave that for another thread. IP: Logged
blue moon Knowflake Posts: 1344 From: U.K Registered: Apr 2009	posted January 14, 2008 04:52 PM This assumes that marriage and relationships have nothing to do with external achievement and status. We might not like to think so, but if it was the case the expression "gold-digger" wouldn't be in frequent use, it would be common for surgeons to marry hairdressers, and the average wedding wouldn't cost around 13 grand (22 thousand US dollars). IP: Logged
Glaucus Moderator Posts: 5228 From: Sacramento,California Registered: Apr 2009	posted January 14, 2008 06:43 PM Saturn is exalted in Libra,the relationship sign any way I don't know what Scorpio being potentially more negative than Capricorn has to do with I also never thought of Saturn as emotionally intense. It's not only hard Saturn transits that are tough and reflect people forced to make changes....it can be hard transits from any of the outerplanets. I would also look into other factors too. BTW...I have strong Scorpio and strong Saturn influence. Saturn aspects all my Scorpio planets and aspect their dispositor Pluto Sun in Scorpio quincunx Saturn Mercury in Scorpio contraparallel Saturn Venus in Scorpio contraparallel Saturn Saturn trine Pluto IP: Logged
Bucketrider unregistered	posted January 14, 2008 07:31 PM Saturn doesnt seem emotional because of the way it has been characterized and its association of capricorn. However, in my experience and in relationships it is highly "attached" and intense in a way that does not fit capricorn. In any case, qualities of emotional vs intellectual are more associated with elements than planets. Scorpio being water which is emotional. The fundamental question to me is why is saturn the most essential planet in relationships if it is associated with capricorn? It just doesnt fit. Hard transits from saturn often have a relationship and character focus and demand change in a way that requires self awareness and work. The transits from the outer planets in a certain sense "do" the work or inspire it through various events and dont involve the kind of depriving and "doing without" that saturn demands. This surviving and thriving and remaking despite not having is a scorpio quality. Not capricorn. It also a much faster process than the plutonian - very slow and gradual but complete transformation of an area. Scorpios can change a habit or mode of operation rather quickly. That change often relates to self control in some way (saturn) it does not have the broad, fundamental, sense of mission, spiritual quality of pluto. IP: Logged
Green Fairy unregistered	posted January 14, 2008 08:56 PM Saturn has a dampening effect, and is not always representative of longevity [from my observations anyway]. But i think it also depends on what you're asking from a relationship, if you want a strong, passionate and exciting one, Saturn is no good. If you want routine and no changes, then Saturn is the one. But i do remember reading about the "Original House system" [ i guess that means the true position of the planets in the sky] which is strictly based on mathematics and many houses take the place of others, for example the 10th H becomes the House of Scorpio [instead of the 8th as we know it] and vice versa. IP: Logged
cappie78 unregistered	posted January 15, 2008 03:18 AM First I think you've hit on a number of reasons why capricorns are so misunderstood. All the traits you are saying are really Scorpio are in fact innately Capricorn. Thing is... Scorpio traits and Capricorn traits in some areas are not that different. What's different is the way each expresses it. Capricorns are very passionate and very emotional but with us usually it's a more internal kind of thing. The saturn influence you mentioned is all about transformation. How many transformations do you think the goat has to make to scale their mountains. It's not a straight shot up. It's a rocky treacherous climb that requires skill, patience, dexterity, rethinking certain paths and most of all endurance. I'm interested in what your own chart is and your own personal relationships with capricorns. IP: Logged
blue moon Knowflake Posts: 1344 From: U.K Registered: Apr 2009	posted January 15, 2008 04:11 AM �...my love for Heathcliff resembles the eternal rocks beneath - a source of little visible delight, but necessary. Nelly, I am Heathcliff - he's always, always in my mind - not as a pleasure, any more then I am always a pleasure to myself - but, as my own being...� A little something for all you rock-climbers out there. IP: Logged
Glaucus Moderator Posts: 5228 From: Sacramento,California Registered: Apr 2009	posted January 15, 2008 09:40 AM Saturn was assigned rulership of Aquarius too,and it was associated with detachment. Saturn is traditional rulership of Aquarius. Also..it can be hard to isolate the Saturn,Capricorn from Pluto,Scorpio if you have both strong in the chart. Like I have my personal planets in Scorpio aspecting Saturn. My girlfriend has Moon conj Saturn in Scorpio,and so she has strong Scorpio and Saturn influence. My mother has Moon in Scorpio square Pluto which sextiles and parallels her Sun,but she has Mars in Capricorn sextile Saturn along with Saturn trine Ascendant. My Aunt Isabel has Sun in Capricorn trine Pluto. That reflects her being an intense Capricorn. I am sure that a lot of Capricorns have intensity any way and its reflected by strongly placed Pluto like Pluto in angular houses,Pluto in 8th, or Pluto aspecting the personal points,angles, or a stationary Pluto. Even Pluto involving significant midpoint configurations. Some have a significant Scorpio influence. Not to mention...they could have strong aspects to kuiper belt objects which are objects that orbit beyond Neptune. I am sure an aspect to the large plutinos, Orcus and Ixion can be intense. Even aspect to the large cubewanos,Quaoar,Varuna. Eris is larger kuiper belt object than Pluto,and Eris has some intensity. those are just some examples. My unknown father has Sun-Mercury in Capricorn trine stationary Saturn-stationary Jupiter in Taurus.....but it seemed his Moon in Pisces and Stationary Neptune had more say. Also he had Mars in Scorpio as well as Sun contraparallel Pluto. I still use traditional rulerships along with modern rulerships as co-rulers They work for me. so I use Saturn and Uranus as rulers of Aquarius Jupiter and Neptune as rulers of Pisces Mars and Pluto as rulers of Scorpio also astronomical points the Pluto Nodes and the Pluto perigree/apogee can be a factor in intensity. I have Mercury,Venus,and Moon aspecting Pluto Nodes myself. IP: Logged
Glaucus Moderator Posts: 5228 From: Sacramento,California Registered: Apr 2009	posted January 15, 2008 12:30 PM I checked out all 36 charts of Capricorn Sun celebrities listed in Solar Fire. I checked for Pluto in angular houses and exalted house which is 5th house, Pluto aspecting(including declinations) personal planets/points,also personal planets/points in Scorpio, planets in 8th house I used only the 30 degree division aspects. I also checked the Geocentric Pluto Nodes because they are astronomical points. Jeffrey Wolf Green uses planetary nodes in Evolutionary Astrology and believe that they are karmic points and that the South planetary nodes have to do with pastlife karma. I didnt check Pluto Perigree/Apogee because the perigree/apogee is not in Solar Fire I use only a maximum of 2 degree orb for the planetary nodes. Geocentric Pluto Nodes have been in Cancer/Capricorn for well over a century. The Nodes of Jupiter and objects beyond Jupiter move very slowly even more so than outerbody objects....so they have more to do with the collective. North Pluto Node is currently in 20'18 Cancer R South Pluto Node is currently in 20'31 Capricorn The Saturn Nodes and The Pluto Nodes are lined up with each other....just around 3 degrees from being conjunct/opposite each other. North Pluto Node and North Saturn Node conjunct South Pluto Node and South Saturn Node conjunct All 36 Capricorn Sun celebrities have the things listed. It's no surprise that these Capricorn Sun celebrities are intense. They have strong Plutonian energies quite a few Capricorns have their Sun and/or personal planets in Capricorn contraparallel Pluto. Elvis Presley had Sun-Mercury oppose/contraparallel Pluto,and so he was born during an occultation. Muhammad Ali Jan 17, 1942 6:35 PM Louisville,Kentucky Mars square Pluto - 1'44 Sun oppose Pluto - 7'30 Moon oppose Pluto - 7'37 North Pluto Node semisextile Ascendant - '11 South Pluto Node quincunx Ascendant - '12 Joan Baez Jan 9 1941 10:45 AM Staten Island,NY Pluto in Leo in 5th (exalted by both sign and house) Moon sextile Pluto - '14 Mercury contraparallel Pluto - '34 Venus contraparallel Pluto - '53 Mars trine Pluto - '15 Jupiter square Pluto - 2'19 Saturn square Pluto - 4'23 Pluto trine Asc - 1'58 Pluto contraparallel MC - '04 Mars in 8th Jim Bailey Jan 10, 1938 11:30 PM Philadelphia,PA Pluto in 10th Sun oppose Pluto - 8'52 Mercury quincunx Pluto - '17 Venus contraparallel Pluto - '05 Jupiter oppose Pluto - 5'47 Saturn trine Pluto - '34 Pluto parallel MC - '17 Pluto square Vertex - 2'14 North Pluto Node oppose Sun- '51 South Pluto Node conjunct Sun - '48 Moon and Uranus in 8th Jim Bakker Jan 2, 1940 11:00 AM Muskegon Heights Sun contraparallel Pluto - '24 Mercury contraparallel Pluto - '06 Mars trine Pluto - 3'07 Jupiter trine Pluto - '52 Pluto quincunx Asc - '49 Pluto contraparallel MC - '40 Maggie Bell Jan 12, 1945 12:45 AM Glasgow,Scotland Mars contraparallel Pluto - '20 Uranus sextile Pluto - '07 Pluto sextile Asc - '47 Pluto parallel MC - '46 North Pluto Node oppose Sun - 1'53 South Pluto Node conjunct Sun - 1'49 Ian Brady Jan 2, 1938 12:40 PM Glasgow,Scotland Pluto in 4th Sun contraparallel Pluto - '14 Venus contraparallel Pluto - '22 Jupiter oppose Pluto - 3'36 Saturn trine Pluto - '08 Pluto contraparallel MC - '41 North Pluto Node oppose Moon - '07 South Pluto Node conjunct Moon - '17 Nicolas Cage Jan 7 1964 5:35 AM Harbor City,California Sun trine Pluto - 2'10 Mercury trine Pluto - 4'43 Mercury contraparallel Pluto - '46 Pluto conjunct Uranus - 4'16 Pluto semisextile MC - 1'28 Tracy Caulkins Jan 11, 1968 3:35 AM Winona,Minnesota Pluto in 10th Scorpio Ascendant Moon parallel Pluto - '39 Jupiter oppose Pluto - 1'01 Saturn quincunx Pluto - '51 Pluto conjunct MC - 1'09 Pluto contraparallel Ascendant - '38 North Pluto Node oppose Sun - '38 South Pluto Node conjunct Sun - '37 Kevin Coster Jan 18, 1955 9:40 PM Lynwood, California Jupiter parallel Pluto - '57 Pluto sextile MC - 1'07 Pluto parallel MC - '45 Pluto semisextile Asc - '43 Pluto trine Ceres - 1'01 Pluto contraparallel Ceres - '12 Larry Csonka Dec 25, 1945 5:53 AM Akron,Ohio Pluto in 8th Sun contraparallel Pluto - '03 Mercury trine Pluto - 4'03 Mars contraparallel Pluto - '39 Saturn conjunct Pluto - 5'12 Uranus parallel Pluto - '22 North Pluto Node conjunct Vertex - '45 North Pluto Node trine Jupiter - '49 South Pluto Node sextile Jupiter - '03 Marlene Dietrich Dec 27, 1901 9:15 PM Berlin,Germany Pluto in 10th Moon parallel Pluto - '02 Venus trine Pluto - 3'04 Saturn quincunx Pluto - '08 Uranus oppose Pluto - '50 North Pluto Node oppose Jupiter - 1'06 Jeane Dixon Jan 5, 1904 2:00 PM Medford,Wisconsin Pluto in 1st Moon sextile Pluto - 1'15 Mars trine Pluto - '06 Jupiter square Pluto - '42 North Pluto Node quincunx Mars - '06 South Pluto Node semisextile Mars - '15 Sun in 8th Heidi Fleiss Dec 30, 1965 9:05 AM Los Angeles California Pluto in 7th Mercury square Pluto - '15 Uranus conjunct Pluto - 1'10 Pluto contraparallel Asc - '57 South Pluto Node semisextile Mercury - '49 Joe Frazier Jan 17, 1944 7:00 AM Beaufort, South Carolina Pluto in 7th/8th Mars sextile Pluto - 2'39 Mars parallel Pluto - '07 Pluto contraparallel Asc - '18 Mercury quincunx Pluto - 1'15 Pluto conjunct North Lunar Node - 1'01 Jupiter in 8th Crystal Gayle Jan 9, 1951 1:25 AM Paintsville,Kentucky Sun quincunx Pluto - 1'09 Mars oppose Pluto - '12 Uranus parallel Pluto - '20 North Pluto Node oppose Sun - 1'30 North Pluto Node semisextile Mars - '08 South Pluto Node conjunct Sun - 1'25 South Pluto Node quincunx Mars - '03 Herman Goering Jan 12, 1893 4:00 AM Rosenheim,Germany Pluto in 7th Mars sextile Pluto - 1'50 Saturn trine Pluto - 4'37 North Pluto Node sextile MC - '47 South Pluto Node trine MC - '58 Marjoe Gortner Jan 14, 1944 6:49 PM Long Beach,California Pluto in Leo in 1st Mars sextile Pluto - 2'53 Mars parallel Pluto - '07 Pluto conjunct North Lunar Node - 1'07 Pluto conjunct Midheaven - 4'11 Cary Grant Jan 18, 1904 1:00 AM Bristol,England Pluto in 8th Venus oppose Pluto - 3'30 Jupiter square Pluto - 1'39 John Edgar Hoover Jan 1, 1895 7:30 AM Washington,DC Pluto in 5th.....accidental exaltation Moon square Pluto - '22 Sun quincunx Pluto - '39 Saturn contraparallel Pluto - '00 Pluto quincunx Asc - '08 North Pluto Node oppose Venus - '32 North Pluto Node trine Uranus - '22 South Pluto Node conjunct Venus - '06 South Pluto Node sextile Uranus - '04 James Earl Jones Jan 17, 1931 6:05 AM Arkabutla,Mississippi Pluto in 7th Sun oppose Pluto - 6'56 Moon oppose Pluto - 7'37 Mars parallel Pluto - '28 Jupiter conjunct Pluto - 5'37 Jupiter parallel Pluto - '44 Saturn oppose Pluto - 4'00 Saturn parallel Pluto - '03 Pluto square Lunar Nodes - 1'18 Pluto contraparallel Asc - '58 North Pluto Node square Lunar Nodes - '51 North Pluto Node conjunct Pluto - '27 South Pluto Node square Lunar Nodes - 1'12 South Pluto Node oppose Pluto - '05 Neptune in 8th Janis Joplin Jan 19, 1943 9:45 AM Port Arthur,Texas Sun oppose Pluto - 7'36 Mercury oppose Pluto - 3'12 Mars contraparallel Pluto - '02 Saturn sextile Pluto - '23 Pluto trine MC - '59 North Pluto Node conjunct Jupiter - '14 South Pluto Node oppose Jupiter - '42 Annie Lennox Dec 25, 1954 11:10 PM Aberdeen,Scotland Moon contraparallel Pluto - '08 Venus square Pluto - 4'57 Jupiter semisextile Pluto - '57 Pluto semisextile Uranus - '03 Pluto parallel Uranus - '58 Pluto parallel MC - '44 North Pluto Node semisextile MC -'07 South Pluto Node quincunx MC - '58 Henri Matisse Dec 31, 1869 8:00 PM Le Cateau, France Pluto in 10th Pluto conjunct MC - 3'37 Sun trine Pluto - 5'55 Mercury trine Pluto - 4'38 Jupiter conjunct Pluto - 5'09 North Pluto Node oppose Vertex - '04 South Pluto Node conjunct Vertex - '30 Lyle Menendez Jan 10, 1968 12:10 PM New York,NY Moon trine Pluto - '23 Sun trine Pluto - 3'15 Mercury trine Pluto - 4'33 Pluto trine MC - 1'42 North Pluto Node oppose Sun - '21 North Pluto Node oppose Midheaven - 1'11 South Pluto Node conjunct Sun - '19 South Pluto Mode conjunct Midheaven - 1'13 Venus in 8th Mary Tyler Moore Dec 29, 1936 10:45 AM Brooklyn,NY Pluto in 5th...accidental exaltation Moon conjunct Pluto - '39 Sun contraparallel Pluto - '09 Mercury oppose Pluto - '41 Mars square Pluto - 2'00 Jupiter contraparallel Pluto - '10 Pluto contraparallel MC - '05 Mars in 7th/8th Michael Nesmith Dec 30, 1942 11:59 AM Houston,Texas Pluto in Leo in 5th.....exalted by sign and house Moon sextile Pluto - '52 Sun quincunx Pluto - 1'52 Sun contraparallel Pluto - '21 Mercury contraparallel Pluto - '22 Venus contraparallel Pluto - '22 Mars trine Pluto - 3'52 Saturn sextile Pluto - '09 Pluto contraparallel MC - '33 North Pluto Node oppose Venus - '44 North Pluto Node quincunx MC - '56 South Pluto Node conjunct Venus - '09 South Pluto Node semisextile MC - '21 Jimmy Page Jan 9, 1944 4:00 AM Heston,England Venus trine Pluto - '58 Mars sextile Pluto - 3'10 Mars parallel Pluto - '08 Pluto sextile Uranus - 2'42 Pluto conjunct North Lunar Node - 1'14 North Pluto Node oppose Sun - 1'52 South Pluto Node conjunct Sun - 1'45 Moon and Saturn in 8th Dolly Parton Jan 19, 1946 8:25 PM Locust Ridge,Tennessee Mercury contraparallel Pluto - '04 Pluto sextile MC - 2'04 North Pluto Node conjunct Mars - 1'32 North Pluto Node conjunct Saturn - 1'26 South Pluto Node oppose Mars - 1'02 South Pluto Node oppose Saturn - '57 Mary Pierce Jan 15, 1975 1:07 AM Montreal,Canada Mercury trine Pluto - '56 Venus trine Pluto - 1'59 Pluto sextile North Lunar Node - '01 Pluto contraparallel Asc - '14 Pluto sextile MC - '33 Elvis Presley Jan 8, 1935 4:35 AM Tupelo,Mississippi Pluto in 8th Sun oppose Pluto - 7'54 Sun contraparallel Pluto - '29 Mercury oppose Pluto - 2'49 Mercury contraparallel Pluto - '50 Venus oppose Pluto - 4'13 Pluto contraparallel Asc - '32 Pluto sextile MC - 1'41 Pluto conjunct Vertex - 3'39 Sissy Spacek Dec 25, 1949 12:03 AM Tyler,Texas Sun contraparallel Pluto - '10 Mercury contraparallel Pluto - '36 Venus oppose Pluto - 3'59 Uranus parallel Pluto - '26 Pluto parallel MC - '12 North Pluto Node oppose Mercury - '46 North Pluto Node sextile Saturn - '37 South Pluto Node conjunct Mercury - 1'38 South Pluto Node trine Saturn - '15 Donna Summer Dec 31, 1948 9:00 PM Boston,Massachussetts Sun contraparallel Pluto - '21 Mercury contraparallel Pluto - '27 Venus trine Pluto - 1'28 Jupiter contraparallel Pluto - '20 Uranus parallel Pluto - '14 North Pluto Node oppose Mercury - 1'38 Billy Tipton Dec 29, 1914 2:00 AM Oklahoma City,Oklahoma Moon semisextile Pluto - '01 Sun oppose Pluto - 5'41 Mercury oppose Pluto - 1'26 Venus in Scorpio Venus quincunx Pluto 1'46 Mars oppose Pluto - 4'20 Saturn conjunct Pluto - 2'52 Uranus contraparallel Pluto - '32 Pluto trine Asc - 6'40 Moon in 8th Tracy Ullman Dec 30, 1959 3:15 AM Burnham,England Pluto in 10th Sun trine Pluto - 1'37 Moon trine Pluto - 6'24 Saturn trine Pluto - 3'11 South Pluto Node semisextile Mars - '27 Neptune conjunct Asc in Scorpio Denzel Washington Dec 28, 1954 12:09 AM Mount Vernon,NY Sun contraparallel Pluto - '56 Venus square Pluto - 3'27 Jupiter semisextile Pluto - '42 Uranus semixtile Pluto - '06 Uranus parallel Pluto - '58 Pluto parallel MC - '47 North Pluto Node square Vertex - '22 South Pluto Node square Vertex - 1'06 Venus conjunct Saturn in Scorpio Malcolm Young Pluto in 4th Sun contraparallel Pluto - '24 Mercury contraparallel Pluto - '48 Uranus parallel Pluto - '02 Pluto sextile Asc - '00 Pluto parallel Asc - '21 Raymond Andrews IP: Logged
Bucketrider unregistered	posted January 15, 2008 03:08 PM Lots of info there Glaucus. Im not sure it makes the point though. Look at capricorns with no pluto or saturn aspects - what are they like? Ive met several and they are earnest, achievement oriented, intelleectual and not intense. I think anytime I describe a sign as not having a quality that someone with that sign feels they have - they will protest. Classic rulerships were assigned with very limited info. It was a good scheme given what they knew but are very OUTDATED given what we know now. Nobody has addressed the central issue of why saturn is so central to relationships and deep long term connection. Why is saturn so centrally about power in relationships? Cap is about achievement and specialized knowledge of an area. Not really power. Scorpio is about power in its purest form. Cap does not suffer from the trust issues that comes with saturn. Scorpio does. I think there are many misunderstandings of the signs which have persisted because of the old rulerships. They were made by generalizing about traits and a lack of knowledge about other planets. Like mars being sex and desire bec it has an outward and confronting quality. It is the "arm" of the zodiac but it is more about work, industry, energy and vitality than sex. Sex can be linked easily to many planets and asteroids - moon, venus, sun, saturn, uranus, pluto, juno, vesta and others. It is not the domain of one planet. It is that kind of blurring lines that current makes the system of rulerships almost useless. If Ptolmey were around today he would not go with the classic scheme and he would not assign pluto to scorpio. IP: Logged
Glaucus Moderator Posts: 5228 From: Sacramento,California Registered: Apr 2009	posted January 15, 2008 03:25 PM I was trying to make a point that people with Capricorn Suns that are intense could have things in their chart that indicate intensity I have listed 36 examples as well as mentioned my aunt and my father who had Pluto aspects. other things that I didn't look at which are relevant are even a stationary Pluto Pluto on the equator personal planet/point aspects to Pluto Perigree and/or Pluto Apogee also...they could have minor aspects involving Pluto.....like semisquare,sesquiquadrate which are considered major aspects in Cosmobiology. even quintile,biquintile also the other kuiper belt objects can be intense too and not just Pluto....there are many kuiper belt objects that include Eris,Orcus,Quaoar,Ixion,Varuna are the big kuiper belt object There is also the harmonic charts to consider too.....those are relevant. I just don't think that generalizations about Solar Capricorns can be made without considering the overall chart. There are so many factors in people's charts. As an astrologer, I don't put a lot of emphasis on sunsign...I look at the overall chart instead. I wouldn't want people judging me by sunsign instead of looking at my overall chart just like I wouldn't want people judging me by my speech instead of getting to know me. My mother has Gemini for sunsign,but she's so dominant in Cancer with Ascendant,Mercury,Venus,Jupiter,and Uranus in Cancer and so dominant in Scorpio with Moon in Scorpio square Pluto that she's far from what they say about Geminis in sunsign books. She definitely shows Pisces traits too,and she has Sun in 12th trine Neptune. My Aries girfriend has strong Scorpio traits and she even feels that way, and she has Moon conj Saturn in Scorpio conjunct their dispositiors,Pluto,and they oppose Mars. She even has Pluto semisquare Ascendant almost exact. I definitely wouldn't want people to generalize with people with same sunsign as me either....because like I said,you have to look at the overall chart.....I definitely have strong Pisces/Neptune traits that sometimes outweigh my Scorpio/Pluto traits.....I have strong Saturn,Jupiter,Mars,Moon,and Uranus traits as well as strong Mercury traits. I even have strong Eris traits. If Astrology was only about sunsigns,I would have never gotten into Astrology. I don't even own a sunsign astrology book. I was skeptical of Astrology until I found out about moonsigns. btw...I am thinking of moving away from Tropical Zodiac Astrology because it doesn't consider people born in the southern hemisphere. I focus more on planetary geometry and astronomy of it. I am also thinking of using the actual constellation zodiac. Instead of considering myself a Scorpio Sun as I am in tropical zodiac,I'd consider myself a Virgo Sun as I am in the actual constellation zodiac. IP: Logged
LeoCat unregistered	posted January 15, 2008 08:17 PM I have my venus conjunct saturn and I always read that this aspect shows a detached personality to love. I consider myself very scorpio when it comes to love. I'm very selective in my mates which is perhaps where the Saturn comes in to tame me, as I also have Venus trine Uranus. Love, affection and loyalty are everything to me and I want 110% of it or I don't want it at all. I'm very jealous and obsessive as well but that's most likely due to my pluto on my ascendant. So I like your interpretation of Saturn. This whole Saturn/Venus detached emotions thing never jived with me. IP: Logged
LeoCat unregistered	posted January 15, 2008 08:19 PM What are pluto nodes? IP: Logged
Glaucus Moderator Posts: 5228 From: Sacramento,California Registered: Apr 2009	posted January 15, 2008 09:06 PM Here is the thread on planetary nodes http://wwww.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/015709.html I like this one especially http://www.considerations-mag.com/articles/geocentricPlanetary.htm Your Pluto conjunct Ascendant can modify any detachment qualities....Pluto conjunct Ascendant is intense and so it can be obsessive,jealous.....and it's same as Pluto oppose Descendant, and so it involves relationships too. Also...I see that you're a Leo.....Leo is not known for being detached....especially being Aquarius' opposite sign. You have a stellium in Leo. definitely not detached also your Venus is prominent by being conjunct the Midheaven and tightly squaring the Ascendant.....that can indicate somebody being very affectionate and possibly possessive. Another thing too is your Venus tightly trines Juno,and that's a strong relationship-oriented aspect...and Juno is in Libra in 1st house,and that can be a strong relationship-oriented placement. Your Sun is trine your 7th house ruler Neptune almost exact,and that can indicate being relationship oriented..I am talking about the trine to your 7th house ruler alone.....the trine to your Neptune is very sensitive,inspirational,idealistic. Really nice aspect to have. It seems that with Sun in Leo trine Neptune you can have a gift for creativity,self expression in some way as well as be very romantic. The Venus conj Saturn could modify it a little with being shy,cautious when expressing their love...have to get to know the person well before being affectionate. Like I said before,the overall chart has to be taken to account IP: Logged
LeoCat unregistered	posted January 16, 2008 06:17 AM Wow Glaucus, thanks for analyzing my chart! I don't have many relationships although you mentioned it was written all over my chart. But you're right, all I want is to fall insanely, fairy tale like in love and I guess I'm waiting for somebody to make me feel that way. I have Pisces ruling my 7th house which I've heard could mean the single life or waiting for the perfect mate and I guess that's a pretty good description of me lately. Everytime I try to let loose my dumb Saturn keeps holding me back. And of course I had to have chiron thrown in there to add to all the fun. It's funny, i just noticed that during my Saturn return I shortened the leash Saturn has on my venus, I just read that the other day, interesting because I didn't realize that could happen (I don't know much about astrology). I guess some people free up their Saturn hold after their Saturn return and some hold onto it more tightly? It definitely hasn't made me more detached emotionally, it's just made me more selective. I should actually thank my Saturn, if not for it I would probably be a serial dating nymph with my venus in gemini trine uranus. I never understood that gemini thing, I really don't jive too well with them. IP: Logged
Glaucus Moderator Posts: 5228 From: Sacramento,California Registered: Apr 2009	posted January 16, 2008 09:58 AM You're welcome. I have Pisces Descendant like you, and I also have its ruler Neptune parallel Venus. I can relate to everything that you said. I have Venus contraparallel Saturn,and I can relate to all the Venus-Saturn stuff that you said. Luckily,I found my soulpartner. She has Pisces Ascendant. IP: Logged
LeoCat unregistered	posted January 16, 2008 03:14 PM You're so lucky Glaucus. I thought I found my soul partner but I was wrong. I'm beginning to think it's not out there for me and I've been waiting for nothing. If there's one out there for me I'll find him, if not then maybe the next time around. That's just something I may have to accept. I'm really emotional right now about it so I can't think too much about that it really upsets me. Ok now I'm confused! I'm trying to do this planetary nodes thing but it's throwing me off. Does it matter where the planetary nodes were at birth? Can I use these just like conjunctions or do they not apply as the nodes should constantly be in motion. IP: Logged
LeoCat unregistered	posted January 16, 2008 03:39 PM I guess my question is, how do we figure out the planetary nodes at the time of birth? IP: Logged
Glaucus Moderator Posts: 5228 From: Sacramento,California Registered: Apr 2009	posted January 16, 2008 04:47 PM You can calculate the planetary nodes here. you can also calculate the perihelion/aphelion here too. you can get the nodes and perihelion/aphelion(geocentric is referred as perigree/apogee) for every asteroid,kuiper belt object that is listed astro.com and not just the planets. http://www.megadelfi.com/~jonathan/pos/ IP: Logged
phoenix1111 unregistered	posted January 17, 2008 10:12 AM Makes sense ------------------ Sun: SCORPIO Asc. LEO Moon: GEMINI IP: Logged

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