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Author
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Topic: outer planets in synastry
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Bucketrider
unregistered
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posted February 18, 2008 09:11 PM
 
I am becoming of the opinion that outer planets (anything past saturn) will not be a factor in relationships unless they are closely aspected via a MAJOR aspect by an inner planet in person A's natal chart. By major aspect I mean conj, opp, trine or square. In fact, it may be that asteroids like ceres, vesta and juno are more significant than an unaspected uranus, neptune or pluto in synastry. Astro investigators marriage research seems to bear this out.Any thoughts? IP: Logged |
Glaucus
Moderator Posts: 5228
From: Sacramento,California
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted February 18, 2008 09:22 PM
I am in agreement with you.Also...it would be interesting to see if there is a midpoint involving a personal point and outer planet that is aspecting the other's personal point example A's Sun/Pluto conjunct B's Venus what about the sextile.....that's a major aspect Major aspects are what the Ptolemaic aspects are referred to as Ptolemy used aspects by sign
modern astrology is more geometrically oriented
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jcweimpw
Newflake Posts: 18
From: Pinckney, MI USA
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted February 18, 2008 09:33 PM
What type of orbs do you use for midpoints in synastry?jcweimpw IP: Logged |
Glaucus
Moderator Posts: 5228
From: Sacramento,California
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted February 18, 2008 09:43 PM
Cosmobiologists use 1 to 1/2 degree orbs for midpoint pictures.IP: Logged |
Bucketrider
unregistered
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posted February 18, 2008 09:46 PM
I would exclude midpoint conjunctions from outer planet aspects. In fact, I know someone who has uranus conjunct her sun/moon midpoint and she is not very uranian at all. Not to discredit the validity of the sun/moon midpoint - which is pretty major. As far as aspects, I dont see the sextile as stronger than the quintile. The quintile, sextile and septile and octile (semisquare) are similar in strength in my opinion. They are all weaker than the first four but "stronger" than the last four. An outer planet aspecting an inner planet via sextile or semisquare is just not going to be as present in a persons life as one aspecting via the first four major aspects. IP: Logged |
Glaucus
Moderator Posts: 5228
From: Sacramento,California
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted February 18, 2008 09:48 PM
what's the orb on that Uranus conjunct Sun/Moon midpointalso...there is a lot of things in the chart that will modify a certain thing in the chart any way.
Heck...I have Moon conjunct Mars.....doesn't mean that I have to be very Marsy
I have Moon square Neptune,Moon square Saturn,Moon trine Sun as well as other aspects that indicate that I am not a Marsy type
there are many manifestations for a certain astrological placement.....so many variables
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Bucketrider
unregistered
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posted February 18, 2008 09:57 PM
It is conjunct. The orb is about 2.5 degrees. I have seen sun/moon midpoint hard aspects work often within 3 degrees. I think midpoint pictures complicate things. I have not found that kind of analysis to be particularly useful when it says anything which contradicts the basic flow of the chart - i.e. - sun/moon, houses, nodes, aspects to inner planets. After exploring many schools of astrology pretty thoroughly for a while - I am coming back to the basics (with some modifications on rulerships, aspects, and aspect orbs). The basics tell the story. IP: Logged |
Glaucus
Moderator Posts: 5228
From: Sacramento,California
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted February 18, 2008 10:10 PM
I think that it really depends on what system an astrologer usesCosmobiologists don't use midpoints past 2 degrees.....they use them up to 1 to 1/2 degrees..... even Astrologers that aren't cosmobiologists use up to 1 to 1/2 degree orbs some use only no more than 1 degree because that's the same orb that they use for Solar Arc and Secondary progressions.
Cosmobiologists don't even use houses. They believe that they can gather insights without even using houses which they believe to be relative,arbitrary. They don't put much focus on signs. Their system is completely different.
They even use different orbs between personal points (Sun,Moon,Midheaven,Ascendant)---an orb of 5 degrees on each side between fast moving planets(Mercury,Venus,Mars)---an orb of 4 degrees on each side. between slower moving planets(Jupiter,Saturn,Uranus,Neptune,Pluto)---an orb of 3 degrees on each side.
They use 90 degree dials
so conjunctions,oppositions,and squares appear as conjunctions and semisquares,sesquiquadrates appear as oppositions
basically 4th harmonic chart.
You talk about using the basics, but you have been proposing modifications too.
I believe that modifications in Astrology are valid with all the new astronomical discoveries. The ancient astrologers didn't use the outerplanets....Classical astrologers don't use them nor do the Vedic Astrologers. they use the classical planet rulerships like Mars rules Scorpio,Saturn rules Aquarius,and Jupiter rules Pisces. the use of outerplanets aren't basics according to the Classical astrologers,Vedic Astrologers,and definitely not to Astrologers who did Astrology before the discoveries of the outerplanets. They are more like modifications to Astrology. Vedic Astrologers believe that you don't need outerplanets because they believe that Rahu (North Lunar Node) and Ketu (South Node)have outerplanet like energies they use aspects diffently....Mars,Jupiter,and Saturn cast special aspects They also use a whole sign equal house system which is actually the oldest house system.
now we have numerous house systems
the discovery of the Kuiper Belt opened up a can of worms....especially with the discovery of Eris being larger than Pluto. That led to redefining the planetary boundaries with Pluto demoted as minor planet and classed as a dwarf planet. Ceres also is now Pluto's equal in Astronomy as a dwarf planet.
Ceres was once classed as a planet for 50 years before it was demoted to minor planet status. the other major asteroids were classed as planets too. But the astronomers realized that they were one of many objects in a region in what they refer to as the asteroid belt. The same with Pluto....they now view Pluto as one of many objects in a region in what they refer to as the kuiper belt. Now,Pluto is getting treated like Ceres and the other major asteroids were. we now know that Chiron is one of many centaurs, and that it didn't originate outside our solar system. we now know that the solar system doesn't end with Pluto....many objects orbit beyond Pluto like Eris and Sedna. IP: Logged |
mblover
Knowflake Posts: 111
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted February 18, 2008 10:29 PM
I agree with you on outer planets.. especially Uranus Pluto Neptune and Jupiter..Saturn you need to watch. This devil can either give more responsibility or put control on all love you have to offer. I hate when Saturn opposes Moon or Sun... its like the person just can't express love clearly.. IP: Logged |
mblover
Knowflake Posts: 111
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted February 18, 2008 10:30 PM
Glaucus, whole house system has made a much better sense to me than going into degrees. In that you have a proper ruler of the house and there is a much better clarity.IP: Logged |
Bucketrider
unregistered
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posted February 18, 2008 11:06 PM
Glaucus - the more you study astrology, the more you come to your own understanding. That is a good thing. I dont think doing away with houses and signs, ignoring trines and other 3 family aspects is accurate. As I said, I think midpoint pictures cloud and overcomplicate the basics. The vedic school is very deterministic and probably absurd not to acknowledge outer planets. One of the easiest things to observe astrologically are the effects of an outer planet transit on a given chart. However, vedics emphasis on the nodes is something western astrology continued with good reason.As far as kuiper belt objects - I dont think size is a determining factor in astrological importance. Pluto has unique qualities which set it apart from other kuiper belt objects - such as its brightness, atmosphere, size and most importantly that it intersects with neptunes orbit. Again, proven astrological significance of a body is the barometer. Not mere existence. Nothing intelligible can be said if there are 50,000 important planets and midpoint pictures.
Chiron is unique among the centaurs. It has a gravitaionally bound atmosphere which puts it more in a planet category than a centaur. It also has a coma. The others do not. The other centaurs like pholus are red while chiron is gray. Any system must demonstrate coherence and focus. It also must have some sound theoretical principles by which it operates. For instance, the notion of the conj, opp and square being equal aspects does not make sense. They are different divisions of a circle and resonate with similar but different harmonics. Experientially, they feel very different as well. I think any serious student of astrology should go through most if not all of the major astrological schools and take what works and leave the rest. Nobody has all of it right. The reason they all continue to exist is that they have read some aspects very accurately. Like any topic of study - the truth is usually an integration of a fields most important movements. It is not found in the movements themselves.
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Bucketrider
unregistered
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posted February 18, 2008 11:12 PM
Btw, I think the comprehensiveness and seriousness of your study of astrology is admirable.IP: Logged |
Glaucus
Moderator Posts: 5228
From: Sacramento,California
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted February 18, 2008 11:23 PM
the plutinos have 3:2 resonance with Neptune too. They orbit like Pluto.too. They cross Neptune's orbit like Pluto does.also there are centaurs in our solar system that have highly elliptical orbit like Chiron. the other centaurs that don't have highly elliptical orbits are assigned female names like Chariklo and Hylonome.
as for the other stuff
it's more like different strokes for different folks as well as to each,his or her own
I am just not into regular Astrology any more. I am getting more into astronomically oriented stuff like the stuff Philip Sedgwick is into as well as Cosmobiology and Theodor Landscheidt's concepts
I just feel that there are some inconsistencies in regular modern Astrology which I feel includes modifications from adaptations to astronomical discoveries like the outerplanets. IP: Logged |
Glaucus
Moderator Posts: 5228
From: Sacramento,California
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted February 18, 2008 11:35 PM
In astronomy, a plutino is a trans-Neptunian object in 2:3 mean motion resonance with Neptune. For every 2 orbits that a Plutino makes, Neptune orbits 3 times. Plutinos are named after Pluto, which follows an orbit trapped in the same resonance, with the Italian diminutive suffix -ino. The name refers only to the orbital resonance and does not imply common physical characteristics; it was invented to describe those bodies smaller than Pluto (hence the diminutive) following similar orbits. The class includes Pluto itself and its moons.Plutinos form the inner part of the Kuiper belt and represent about a quarter of the known Kuiper Belt objects (KBOs). Plutinos are the largest class of the resonant trans-Neptunian objects (i.e. bodies in orbital resonances with Neptune). Aside from Pluto itself and Charon, the first plutino, 1993 RO, was discovered on September 16, 1993. The largest plutinos include Pluto, 90482 Orcus, 28978 Ixion, 38628 Huya, (35671) 1998 SN165, and 38083 Rhadamanthus. While the majority of plutinos have low orbital inclinations, a substantial number of them follow orbits similar to that of Pluto, with inclinations in the 10-25° range and eccentricities around 0.2-0.25, resulting in perihelions inside (or close to) the orbit of Neptune and aphelions close to the main Kuiper belt's outer edge (where objects have 1:2 resonance with Neptune). The orbital periods of plutinos cluster around 247.3 years (1.5 x Neptune's orbital period), varying by at most a few years from this value.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plutino
Ixion and Orcus are prominent in my chart.
IP: Logged |
CoralFrequency
Newflake Posts: 0
From:
Registered: Aug 2009
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posted February 18, 2008 11:36 PM
Glaucus, I'm curious about a midpoint aspect I have in synastry and not sure how to interpret it. I have a general idea but I'd like a second opinion anyway.His Venus is Scorpio.
Mars is Capricorn (on my Moon) His Venus/Mars midpoint is 23' Sag.
His Sun is at 24'Sag.
His Neptune is at 22' Sag. My Uranus is at 23' Sag. So how would you say, my Uranus conjunct his Venus/Mars midpoint, plays out? Thank You! PS. Just realized - technically my Uranus is also conjunct his Sun/Neptune midpoint. IP: Logged |
Glaucus
Moderator Posts: 5228
From: Sacramento,California
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted February 18, 2008 11:58 PM
Uranus = Venus/Mars
VE.MA.UR.
+ passionate. original. vehement. effervescent. sensual. fiery. high-spirited. highly expressive. enjoys technical or reform work. future-oriented. works with rhythmic artistry. enjoys dancing. musically inclined.
Unexpected enjoyment in connection with work. To demonstrate affection unexpectedly. To suddenly effect a compromise. Pleasant event on the job. Surprising action for peace. Congeniality in connection with technical work. Adventurous love relationship. Surprising passion. Surprise about or due to relatives. To act on artistic stimuli. Happiness about implementation of reform. Healthy glandular functions. Successful operation.
- eccentric. impetuous. hot-blooded. lacking in self-restraint. unstable. morally lax. has a stressful love life. short-tempered. carnal.
To contribute to tensions in love. Sexual incidents. Abdominal operation. My Mars conjuncts my girlfriend's Venus/Uranus midpoint with 18 minutes of arc,and so we have something similar. Uranus = Sun/Neptune
SU.UR.NE.
+ highly imaginative. inventive. ingenious. highly intuitive. mediumistic. interested in the occult. esoteric. relaxing. future-oriented. daydreams. inventive. visionary. Reformer.
Relaxed or relaxing person. Stimulus for the future of men or a man. Surprise of an unfamiliar person. Surprising sacrifices. Man and metaphysical factors. Relaxation of physical tension. Years of future reforms.
- reacts unconsciously. devitalized. vacillates between impulsiveness and passivity. contrary. deluded. deceptive. easily tired.
Pointless excitement. Upset over falsehood. Sudden ambiguity or confusion. Uncertainty due to tensions. Unexpected loss. Sudden outage or dismissal. Sudden neutralization. To faint. Upsetting situation due to air or water [or intoxicants]. Epilepsy. Sudden physical weakening. Days of unexpected deceit or disillusionment.
here is a thread where I posted Ruth Brummond's Rulebook....She's Uranian Astrologer. I left out the hypothetical planet stuff that the uranian astrologers use.
I feel that it's good for not only interpreting halfsums and midpoint configurations but also aspects and planetary geometrical configurations
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/011166.html
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