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Author Topic:   Old rulerships
Lana29865
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posted March 18, 2008 01:38 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I claimed in another thread that I believe Chiron is the ruler of Virgo (oh yes, I know this is an old debate).

Having slept on it, I realize my statement about Chiron was hasty, but being a Virgo Sun and feeling quite different from Geminis (both supposedly ruled by Mercury), I would just love to have something clear cut and definite... That's, of course, not what astrology is about, so I googled some info on Chiron and found this astrologer's answer particularly appealing to myself:

"The discussion about what sign Chiron 'rules' has been going on since astrologers first started working with the planet. I am something of a purist as far as rulerships go, and I feel that the ancient system of what are called 'essential dignities' is best left intact. I am cautious about saying that Uranus rules Aquarius, Pluto rules Scorpio or Neptune rules Pisces. I will always -- always -- use the ancient ruler (Saturn for Aquarius, Jupiter for Pisces and Mars for Scorpio) first before attempting to use the modern one.

I think there is a lot of room for discussion about Uranus, Neptune and Pluto, and I think we need to know a lot more about how these planets evolved into their current meaning at all, as part of understanding the role of Chiron and other new planets. Often it is one astrologer who says something that catches on, and there is little actual discussion, either sooner or later. Often people come out with horrifying interpretations, like the Devil has been discovered, then over time, the other influences are seen.

Seeing the affinities with the signs of the zodiac helps astrologers be more objective and balanced in their views. Clearly, Chiron has an affinity with Virgo. Indeed, in many ways it seems to be redefining Virgo, and helps explain some of the intense properties of this sign that are not satisfactorily explained by Mercury, the traditional ruler: the focus, the dedication to service, the affinity for teaching and healing, the depth of intelligence, the long-term commitment, and most of all, the revolutionary spirit that seems to come pouring through Virgo.

You are an example of someone, and I have met many people by the way, who live out this Chiron aspect of Virgo. Some of the most revolutionary women I've ever known, and some of the greatest healers, have strong Virgo signatures. Chiron seems to blend in with these traits and qualities quite well, though we cannot forget the Mary/Isis aspect of Virgo -- that is, the Goddess.

Yet there is also the Sagittarius aspect. We can't really ignore the fact that there is a huge Centaur in the sky in the direction of Sagittarius, or that a Centaur is one of the most commonly accepted and traditional symbols of this sign. Chiron is likely to be that Centaur, as he was allowed to leave the Earth plane and live on the 'higher' astral plane in the form of this constellation, Centaurus. From this bit of mythology, we can learn a lot about Sagittarius and a lot about Chiron.

Sagittarius represents the 'quest' aspect of Chiron -- the spirit of pursuit of one's goals, of searching the outer world, of seeking for oneself through travel and education, and most of all, seeking awareness of one's higher self. I think that the Sagittarius and Virgo aspects of Chiron go together quite well, and provide a real point of balance.

But then there are the opposite signs, Pisces and Gemini. I am not ready to make the assertion that Chiron is 'poorly placed' in these two signs. I am much more familiar with Chiron in Pisces, as I was born in this era, as were many of my peers. And this placement seems to provide a genuine and heartfelt quest for God and for the spirit of the cosmos. Not one's own higher self, but rather the much greater cosmos that we must live in whether we recognize it or not. Certainly, recognizing our place in the scheme of things is a beautiful theme of modern spirituality, with all we're learning from science, which is often verging on mysticism these days.

As for Gemini, I think Chiron in this sign has a lot to do with healing the dualism that characterizes the physical plane -- the inescapable interplay of opposites, polarities, and dark and light. And there is the ever-important emphasis on relationship that Gemini is such a necessary part of.

So, to sum up, I think that the discussion of the affinities of the outer planets needs to be open-ended, open minded, based on a balance of theory and experience -- and most of all, creative.

(taken from http://planetwaves.net/cainer/archive/003530.php)

In addition to looking at the other double rulerships, I would like to challenge people to pay particular attention to Saturn as the ruler (or co-ruler) of Aquas... Now, that's gives a totally different picture of the "freedom loving sign", yet there must have been good reasons for choosing it...

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lalalinda
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posted March 18, 2008 02:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for lalalinda     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
WOW! I enjoyed that!
Interesting piece Lana

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Bucketrider
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posted March 18, 2008 12:33 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Good piece.

However

One of the problems with chiron going to virgo is this: virgo is primarily a task oriented sign. It does *work* very well. The 6th house is the house of work. That is the word - if there is one that we can boil virgo down to. Exact, methodical, professional, competent, perfect work. Virgos are busy and industrious and innately know what needs to be done.

Chiron, as an outer planet, is a larger goal/issue body. Like uranus, neptune and pluto. The central virgo traits have little or nothing to do with chiron larger/long term issues. It is a relating sign, not a global transpersonal sign. The wisdom chiron brings is more about how to come into one's own as one is in various societal roles. To become oneself fully, brilliantly, without impediments. Public reputation often increases with chiron as magi society point out. For this reason. Virgo as an archetype does not relate to public reputation and they are not overly concerned with that. They are content to work quietly, with integrity on perfecting themselves and doing the right thing in their day to day lives.

Chiron often is or famously is seen as relating to marriage and love. Not falling in love - but actually getting married. Committing. It is about assuming social and communal responsibility and the growth that happens as a result of that for self and community. Thats where the teacher/guide aspect comes in with chiron. The teacher helps one ascend to their "position." In contrast to uranus which says "break free" of societal constraints, chiron is more traditional and says find your place within civilization.

Although virgos make good teachers, so do many other signs - teaching and guiding are not words I would use to describe virgo. Assisting, helping, serving are. There is a distinct authority and wisdom that comes with chiron that is missing in virgo. Chiron transits bring wise, experienced teachers and guides to help with a long term life path. The goals and issues of the transit are very long term. They are not immediate and task oriented as virgo fundamentally is.

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T-gemini
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posted March 18, 2008 01:40 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There is another hypothesis: Virgo ruled by Vulcan. There are many links regarding tis rulership. I can't really see a match between Virgo and Chiron.

Here's a one many texts about Vulcan and Virgo from internet:

Virgo has as many planetary candidates as she has godess names. While the planet Mercury is presently her official ruler, she shares it with Gemini, a situation that does not allow either sign to be their true selves. It's like two people living in the same house; they must make compromises in order for them to be able to live peacefully under the same roof. Both Geminis and Virgos must be tiring of this situation, and eventually there will have to be a split up. Every sign wants their own planet(house, apartment, etc.) so they can express their true natures without hindrance. The problem is deciding who will stay(who is the real owner?) and who will move out.

Most astrologers and even non-astrologers feel that Mercury is the true ruler of Gemini and this appears to be so athough we wil never be fully certain untill the split up occurs. Let's say that Mercury does rule Gemeni first and foremost, and that Virgo has been shacking up with him all this time -what is the reason for it? People don't move into someone else's home unless there is nowhere else to go, or unless they cannot afford it. Cosmically speaking, it is very possible that the Virgoan race has lost its true home(Maldek?) and has had to be moved elsewhere(on Mercury).

This, by the way, is actually how planetary rulership works; the dominant race of that planet, or rather, its dominant king or ruler empowers it by becoming its logos. All of the other subservient races or nations represent the remaining planetary influences. So there are two dominant races presently living on/in Mercury -The Gemenians and the Virgoans. When a new home or planet can be found or re-established, the Virgoans will migrate there in their ships and empower or impregnate that planet with their own peculiar collective astrological influence. Then we will have a new astrological planet. It may be that the search or restablishment of such a home planet is well underway(the New Jerusalem?). Are not the biblical elect the "virgins" in Revelation who will be given new bodies and a new Earth(new planet?). This is speculation, but it's certainly possible!

One of the many candidates for a home for Virgoans is Vulcan, said to be situated between Mercury and the Sun. Why do we have a tendency to assign masculine gods to feminine signs? Virgo is a feminine sign and should have a feminine sounding ruler. Vulcania would be more appropriate. There are six masculine planet/signs in astrology and six feminine ones, and there should be six masculine gods and six feminine gods to represent them. Minerva or Medusa would be a more apt name for Pluto for example. This goes to show the extent of patriarchal rule in our society.

Vulcan was presumably sighted in the late 1800's, by Leverrier and others, but it may have been a giant ship passing through, for it has not been sighted since. Then there are those who say that Vulcan is in an etheric(non-materialized) state and can only be seen in ultraviolet light, or is hiding behind the Sun. Still others say Vulcan is somewhere out beyond Pluto. The Theosophists make a big deal about Vulcan and include Earth as one of their twelve planets. They also link Virgo esoterically to the Moon(which supposedly "veils" Vulcan). It is true though that the Moon has some kind of Virgoan influence. In fact, I have observed that the Moon often has more to do with Virgo(or Capricorn) than with Cancer. This is a real mystery for me. http://www.librarising.com/astrology/misc/virgo.html

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Belage
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posted March 18, 2008 09:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Belage     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
T-Gemini, that was so deep.

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Lana29865
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posted March 19, 2008 01:32 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm glad that text interested you guys :-)

As a Virgo sun (conjunct with Uranus) I think the task oriented side is definitely not all there is to Virgos (I can't see myself in that) and that's part of the reason I liked the text I posted:

"Clearly, Chiron has an affinity with Virgo. Indeed, in many ways it seems to be redefining Virgo, and helps explain some of the intense properties of this sign that are not satisfactorily explained by Mercury, the traditional ruler: the focus, the dedication to service, the affinity for teaching and healing, the depth of intelligence, the long-term commitment, and most of all, the revolutionary spirit that seems to come pouring through Virgo".

I've heard of Vulcan as well, and it's interesting to learn more :-)

~ Lana

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Glaucus
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posted March 19, 2008 02:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
if Chiron should rule Virgo what about its fellow centaurs like Pholus,Chariklo,Asbolus,Nessus,Hylonome,Pelion,
Cyllarus,Okyrhoe?


what about Kuiper belts objects especially the large ones like Eris,Orcus,Quaoar,Varuna,Ixion
as well as large Oort Cloud object,Sedna?

what about rulership for dwarf planet,Ceres?


some astrologers believe that the hypothetical planet,Transpluto exists and that it should Virgo. Some even wrote an article about it.


here is stuff on Vulcan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulcan_%28hypothetical_planet%29

here is stuff on Planet X http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planet_X


here are the hypothetical planets used in Uranian Astrology http://thenewage.com/resources/articles/uranian.asp?orig=00034-0000


hypothetical planets proposed by noted astrologer Charles Jayne: Sigma, Pan, Isis, Morya, Hermes, Osiris, Midas, and Lion.


There is Niburu which was Zecharia Sitchkin's idea http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zecharia_Sitchin


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Lana29865
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posted March 19, 2008 03:38 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I like the way the writer of the text I posted summed it up:

"So, to sum up, I think that the discussion of the affinities of the outer planets needs to be open-ended, open minded, based on a balance of theory and experience -- and most of all, creative".

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Lana29865
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posted March 19, 2008 10:57 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
T-gemini, your post was very interesting, thank you for sharing that :-)

Bucketrider, I believe that wisdom goes with evolvement, not with sign...

My initial post was NOT about Chiron ruling Virgo. I made that statement in another thread but regretted it and hence this thread. At this point I actually find it fascinating to think about some of those old rulerships (such as Saturn for Aquarius, a sign I know intimately).

;-)

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