posted April 17, 2008 03:33 AM         

"Only want to teach you
About you
But that's not you"

I've been wondering what makes some people more introspective while others avoid self-reflection. What things in a chart would indicate both types?

I think most people here are introspective, using astrology to better understand themselves and others.

I suppose Scorpio or Pluto would contribute to someone wanting to get to the truth beneath the surface. Or even believing that there is a surface and something below it in the first place.

So I guess I'm that way b/c of my Scorpio Asc and Mercury. And I have Pluto conjunct my Sun/Moon midpoint. Gemini on the 8th may contribute too, curious about what's hidden. And I have my 8th house ruler in my 1st.

But my sister isn't like that and I would think she would be b/c she has her Sun and Moon conjunct in her 8th house. Maybe the 8th house could go the other way, and we instead hide from what we have in that house, so she's hiding from herself (Sun & Moon)?

posted April 17, 2008 06:43 AM         

Many years ago I did a course in Astrology in the centre of London. It was notable how many people there had the Sun in the 12th house. Maybe finding out about themselves is part of what drew them into it. Being contrary mine is in the 7th. Cusp with the 8th. So I think I am the opposite ~ a nosy Gemini who wants to suss out other people.

posted April 22, 2008 12:48 AM         

Astralmuse - Good point about her Sun-Moon conjunction! (Are you a Cap Sun?)

Maybe you need some disconnect between the self/ego and the unconscious/id before you feel the need for analysis. When you're that unified, you may not feel the pieces that you're made of, so you don't feel a need to study the pieces to put them all together. And not only would you lack the desire for self-analysis, but perhaps even the ability. If you identify your "self" too much with your unconscious emotional responses, you can't distance yourself from them enough to study them. The deconstruction would be too encompassing.

My Merc (& Uranus) square my Moon. For me, part of the purpose of emotions is to let Mercury have a gander at them.

You asked about hard aspects to her 8th house planets. Her Sun & Moon (29º Cap and 2º Aqua) are squared by her 5th house NN (in Libra) and 11th house Chiron (in Aries).

I don't think the Nodes are generally used in chart configurations, but if we were to include hers, that would put her Sun and Moon at the apex of a t-square. And in t-squares, I've read to look at the house opposite the apex for guidance in resolving the t-square. In her case, looking at the 2nd house makes sense to me, since I think of that house as the house where we define our identity and values, and in doing so get our sense of self-worth.

posted April 22, 2008 01:04 AM         

I've often seen 12th house planets described as parts of ourselves we repress or don't see clearly. I haven't found that to be the case though. More often than not, in my experience and observations 12th house planets are the ones people deeply identify with. They may not be loudly expressed to others but they're strongly felt as a part of yourself.

This is reminding me of something I read in Schulman's Astrology of Sexuality....

quote:

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The twelfth house symbolizes the understanding that comes from the soul. The soul is only as free as one's consciousness. In the sixth house the deeds and use of the body pervade the conscious mind. In the twelfth house, the individual has an opportunity to see the complete truth of his entire being. What we do in life is important, but what we think and know of what we do is even more important.

Our ability to change and grow must come from the inner self. When the body and personality are aware of the soul it becomes possible for the entire being to function in harmony with itself.

---

In the 12th house I have my chart ruler (Plu) conj my Sun/Moon mp. I couldn't agree more with that part in bold and have felt that way since I was a kid. I think of my 12th house action as contributing to that.

lol about those lacking emotional intelligence not understanding someone they've known for decades. Not too long ago, I told my sister that I didn't understand her.

posted April 22, 2008 02:14 PM         

if i didnt knew better i would say that your sister must have her sun in the 12th house.

The way her bf´s "complained"seem exactly how my bf and own family complains about me!

im considered a big book that´s closed for everyone - i have sun in the 12th - many times i myself conclude that i do hide in a counscious manner - sometimes cause i feel others wont see the real me when i talk about me and my inner issues;other times cause i do want to be secretive.

my sense tells me that when we open up too much,others always judge and finally they end up with their own conclusions,that couldnt be more the opposite about what we just finished to tell.

I pass many moments on introspecting and looking at myself - all of findings go right into the paper:again,the need to be on my own.

But i share my 8th house moon with your sister - but mine is in Taurus.that makes me keep my feelings to myself,even if/when i know i would be better if discussing with someone.
May be a compelling behaviour, i dont know.

posted April 22, 2008 02:36 PM         

quote:

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AG -
I remember you mentioning that you have a Moon-Pluto conjunction. I think that probably contributes a lot to your self curiosity. My sister's chart ruler is also Mercury, but she's more interested in external information. She does love it when I discuss her chart with her though. So I guess she is curious about herself, but not enough to do the work herself. She relies heavily on feedback from other people to learn who she is.

---

True. And my Sun squares that Moon conjunct Pluto.

posted April 23, 2008 01:38 AM         

Diandra -
Very interesting! May I pick your brain and chart a little bit? Where's your Mercury (sign & house) and what aspects does it make? And your 3rd house--what sign is on the cusp and are there any planets in it?

What you said about people judging and forming their own conclusions regardless of what you said reminded me of comments me sister has made.
(Edit: haha, "me sister." That wasn't a typo. I really am a pirate. Argh.)

posted April 23, 2008 01:54 AM         

To know what your 8th house NN asks of you, you'd have to first understand what the 8th house is about. And that house confuses me!

I think the 8th house is about being intimate with others, with allowing another person's identity to meet yours and bring about a mutual transformation.

Neptune in there suggests to me that you want a deep, spiritual connection with others. And with your NN in there, this is something that you're learning how to achieve, so getting there will require work.

posted April 23, 2008 05:27 AM         

I thought this might be relevant to add to the thread. This is what I wrote on another astro site re 8th house and represents what I feel of it:

quote:

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I in effect agree with the modern interpretation of the 8th. Personally for me, I see it as the house of "pulling things in by looking for it", by this I mean both material and non-material things such as sex, money, spiritual/emotional/soulful closeness, knowledge (through research). A deep desire to get to the bottom of things and constantly trying to get to the bottom even if there is not one (and not really feeling dejected by it). It also feels very undefined and nebulous, fluid. I'm very interested in what others would say about my loose definition.

The 8th house is an interesting house for my chart personally. Its not the first chart that others might look at in my chart as I have a lot of big planets in the angles so people might be drawn to that. My 8th is ruled by sco (I have pluto in libra/6th) and I only have one planet in the 8th, that is, neptune but I also have my NN and vertex there too. I'm learning how to appreciate and am actually seeing how these impact on me. I feel that I am constantly on the search or more appropriately constantly investigating and research things in my life. I feel like a vacuum cleaner sometimes. I think it might have a lot to do with my interest in astrology as well.

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What I said in the previous post was in reaction to what AG said about himself:

quote:

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I have a deep, undying curiosity about myself, and I have an 8th house Sun and Jupiter. Mercury is my chart ruler, though, and I'm curious about a lot of things.

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Quite frankly, I'm not sure if I have a curiousity about myself. I just accept who I am I guess. I don't really think about how I react to things the way I have except on the odd occasion. And as I said before, I don't really know how deep I am, nor how many layers I have and if I do have layers, then how do I get to them. So, I guess I am not introspective about myself as such.

I guess I'm more concerned about how I connect with the world and I am very interested in how others tick.

To add to my quote, the 8th house is about the "other" IMHO (and thus a continuation of the 7th; where 7th is "you", 8th maybe is "us" and 9th is "them and me"), drawing in the other. The 2nd I see as a continuation of the 1st/asc; what *I* value.

posted April 24, 2008 01:26 AM         

So you have Pluto on your 7th, and Scorpio on your 8th...sounds to me that you discover yourself through discovering others. Everyone does that, we're all mirrors, but your chart seems to really assign that function (self-knowledge) to occurring within your close relationships. So you would probably seek out partners who would be capable of that.