posted September 11, 2008 11:26 PM            

Let's use asteroid Karma as an example:

I find it much easier to understand asteroid Karma in a natal chart than I do in synastry. I have Pluto conjunct asteroid Karma (0 degree orb) in the 5th house and my life has been full of relationships with people with Scorpio Suns and Moons and one of the repeating themes within them is creativity.

As far as synastry goes, I feel more unsure. So, let's say someone's Karma asteroid is conjunct the other person's Descendant or Ascendant. Is this merely an indicator of karma/shared responsibility between two people or is there a more specific interpretation? If A's Descendant is being conjuncted by B's asteroid Karma, does B "owe" A something? Or does B have a soul contract to have a relationship with A?

In a composite chart, where does Karma fit in? I imagine that if it were to be conjuncting one person's natal planet then that would be an indicator. But what about hard aspects from Venus to asteroid Karma. Or from Valentine to asteroid Karma?

In essence, is it Karma's role here to teach or to learn?? What have you noticed in your own charts?

I know that all parts of the chart must be looked at in order to see the patterns and themes, but I've been curious about this for a while so everyone's experiences and opinions are welcomed

posted September 12, 2008 01:58 AM            

For example, with several of my closest friends and with my first serious boyfriend, their Karma is conjunct my Saturn. Before them, I had moved around a lot and not remained in touch with my friends. These people were the first ones who really stuck, who felt like my family even after I moved away from them.

With my mom, my Karma was exactly conjunct her Chiron at 0º Libra. Ever since I was very young, I played a therapist/healer/comforter role for her.

With my first best friend, my Karma is conjunct her Jupiter. We met in 4th grade. She was gifted academically and didn't have any close friends before I moved to her school. Our teachers commented to my parents that they were glad I'd moved there because they'd never seen her so happy. We had a lot of fun together, laughed together a lot. She has Jupiter in her 1st house and it rules her Moon, so it's an especially important part of her chart and psyche that had felt alone up until we met. It was probably easy for me to get her in touch with her Jupiter since I'm a Sag sun.

So the non-Karma person gets to strongly experience the part of their chart that is being activated, and the Karma person is naturally drawn to being their partner for that. The Karma person wants to play that role. Maybe the type of aspect complicates how the parties feel about their role in each others lives, or determines how easily they play that role.

In the example you named, I look at it like this. The ASC is the relationship axis, so the Karma person wants to be the ASC person's partner. The ASC person will get in touch with who they are within a relationship and what they want from a partner. The Karma person, to them, will appear like someone who can naturally provide them with this information.

posted September 12, 2008 06:18 AM            

It has just clarified its meaning for me SIGNIFICANTLY!!!!!!!

My Neptune conjunct their Karma 4 degrees
My Karma conjunct their Vesta 2 degrees

May I Jane, ask for your brilliant perspective on these 2 aspects. I have my own understanding, but would value yours

posted September 12, 2008 06:57 PM            

I have been trying to figure out what some of my connections are since alot of the conjunctions of my Karma are to other people's asteroids - and usually the same ones, time and again.

For example, with the ex-bf, My Karma/Pluto exactly conjuncts his Pallas Athena. What's that about?

The only two things that comes to mind are that about a week after I de-friended him, he temporarily moved to Athens, Greece for work. He's still there. Also, that I have Pallas conjunct my Ascendant, so it's somehow a feature of what I project.

Maybe my Pluto and Karma somehow pushed him to accept his Pallas...by moving to Greece? Doubtful. And yet in our Draconics, that same Pluto/Karma conjuncts his Draconic MC. Nothing I've ever read about Pallas has made sense to me in terms of our relationship, but it's funny because I feel like through him I am working through the wounds I have with my mother, also a Scorpio, and her Pallas conjuncts my Pluto/Karma as well. So...???

The ex-bf's natal Karma (and Lilith) conjunct my DSC, but with an orb of 5 degrees, so not too noteworthy. But then again I see similarities between Pallas Athene and Lilith.

To make things even more complicated, my boyfriend previous to my ex (and who shares the same b-day as my ex except he's 7 years younger) has similar placements in aspect to me but some of them are sort of inverted. Let me explain:

Nov. 1st BF #1:

Natal: My Pluto/Karma conjuncts his Saturn/Juno
My NN conjuncts his Karma/Sun/Mercury

Draconic: His Karma/Sun/Mercury conjuncts my MC

Nov.1st BF #2 (who I still loooove)

Natal: My Pluto/Karma conjunct his Pallas
His Karma/Lilith conjunct my Descendant

Draconic: My Pluto/Karma conjunct his MC
His Karma/Lilith conjunct my Juno

(Natally, my NN conjuncts BF#2's Sun/Juno)

Additionally, the longest relationship I've ever had lasted 7 years (with yet another guy) and his Draconic Karma conjuncted my Descendant and my natal Juno conjuncted his MC.

I mention all these points since there seems to be a pattern here for me in my relationships which involves Karma asteroid with the same points, again and again: Juno, North Node, MC, Descendant, Pallas and some I did not mention for the sake of brevity: Saturn, Vertex and Psyche. And since my Karma conjuncts my Pluto within mere minutes, inevitably, Pluto always manages to be involved too.

One thing I do see is that Juno is a very important asteroid for me in my relationships and that, somehow, it always connects to Karma. And yet Juno and Karma make no aspects to one another in either my natals or Draconics, however, they are the only planetary bodies I have in my 5th house.

So, I guess I'll go and put that in my pipe and smoke it for now. I always get discouraged with Juno and Karma, but you've helped me quite a bit with seeing Karma more clearly.

And if you've read this far, I owe you the magical GOLD STAR OF PATIENCE

posted September 12, 2008 08:04 PM            

What do you think about Karma conjunct Venus and Mars in synastry?

posted September 12, 2008 08:17 PM            

First Love's Juno conjunct my Venus by 0 degrees

Ex Flame's Venus conjunct my Juno by 3 degrees

I have really appreciated Jane's description of Karma. It really helps me understand why I have triggers with certain people.

My Neptune conjunct their Karma 4 degrees
My Karma conjunct their Vesta 2 degrees

This combination has opened up imaginative possibilites that have heightened my senses and I am sure I have triggered that person into self-discovery in areas of feminine awareness.

Also:

my partner's Karma conjunct my IC by 1 degree

My partner's 'way of life' has contributed to the creation of my comfort at home.

So, when will you hand out your Magical Gold Star of Patience

posted September 12, 2008 08:38 PM            

Thanks for your reply koiflower. See, that's what I think about Juno too. I've been p****d off with Juno for a while now. I feel like she pulled an emotional bait and switch with me...having everyone believe she's all about marriage, and yet she does not seem to indicate that in my charts at all. And I think you're right about it being very sexual and somewhat initiatory, based on whichever point or planet she's activating.

I have found that relationships will often begin or end when Juno is transiting my Pluto/karma combination, so there's definitely a connection there for me.

Btw, I also think that Vesta is responsible for sacred sexuality and tantra in addition to all that femininity. Virgo does not equal virgin.

How did you feel being on both the giving and receiving ends of Juno? Was there a greater sense of power/control in either case?? A greater sense of emotional detachment??

I loved Jane's description of Karma too since I'm trying to create some pattern recognition between all of my charts (natal, synasty, draconic and comp) so that I can 'see the lesson'.

I'm so tired of repeating my Neptune in the 7th house nonsense and astrology has a way of giving me distance and clarity. Sort of like meditating, but more exciting

posted September 13, 2008 01:52 AM            

my Venus has been triggered and I feel naturally drawn to that person and once the passion starts, it's ME OH MY!!!!

my Juno has been triggered by their Venus and I can't help but shudder, shiver, walk on cloud 9, pass out and almost faint with excitement.

IMO, Juno makes love to Venus. In return, Venus makes love to Juno.

Emotions with Juno? There didn't seem to be an emotional detachment at all, just a feeling of "I really like you - let's make love"

You have me thinking about Karma's transits now. So. I'll definitely be looking at that!

posted September 13, 2008 01:41 PM              

When i´ve red your view on KARMA asteroid i went to see the charts and BINGO:

What you said it´s true:

J´s Karma cj my Juno and Osiris

My D.Karma cj his Kiron

He is the 1st man i have ever felt like it was my natural partner,the ideal image of what Osiris embodies.

And i was the 1st person ever with whom we could let away behinf his pains and scars of the Past - through healing.

posted September 16, 2008 05:25 AM            

I was thinking some more about the Karma asteroid and how it's played out in my synastry. I still believe that it is the non-Karma person that feels their planet that is being aspected. I think it's up to everyone to decide for themselves what issues they have with that planet. No one else can really know what your particular issue with, say, Venus is. Are you in love with love? Are you afraid to love? Do you feel unloved? It could be anything, but it will be something dealing with Venus. Someone's Karma on your Venus will get you in touch with your Venus, but what your Venus needs to learn or experience is unique to you, and unique to what this particular person can teach you.

Love - I can't now, but I'll give you my thoughts on your post. And I want that Gold Star! You get one too.

koi - I think your interpretation makes complete sense.

Kismet* - That will be easiest for you to determine if you're the Venus and Mars person, since it will require only introspection. If you're the Karma person, it will be harder to know "the lesson" since it's the Venus and Mars person who is learning how to better live those planets. But if this is a case where someone has Venus & Mars conjunct, then the Karma person may be providing him/her with an opportunity to love and sexually desire someone. Maybe in the past the person has lived as one of the planets at the expense of the other, and now they're unifying them.

posted September 16, 2008 04:19 PM            

what if there is a Venus conjunct Karma on both sides???

example: my Venus in Cancer conjunct my Gem's Karma in Cancer.

my Karma in Taurus conjunct my Gem's Venus in Taurus.

posted September 16, 2008 06:50 PM            

It sounds as though it might mean that you are karmically giving one another the same gift, as it were.

As jane mentioned: "No one else can really know what your particular issue with, say, Venus is. Are you in love with love? Are you afraid to love? Do you feel unloved? It could be anything, but it will be something dealing with Venus. Someone's Karma on your Venus will get you in touch with your Venus, but what your Venus needs to learn or experience is unique to you, and unique to what this particular person can teach you."

I would then assume that the house and sign of each Venus would have the ultimate bearing on the way you complete that karma. So in Cancer, maybe your Gem is helping you to learn to love and nurture yourself? If this were occuring in your 2nd house then you might learn this through increasing your self-esteem and self-worth; in the 8th house learning to nurture by plumbing your depths and releasing what no longer serves you; in the 6th through service to others or perhaps being attentive to your own needs on a daily basis. The house that his karma is in might be the manner in which he helps to nurture you.

That's just what I would gather based on jane's theory which I think makes a lot of sense.

posted September 18, 2008 04:38 AM            

Is Pallas conjunct your ASC from your 12th or 1st house?

If I'm remembering correctly, this is the man who said that he couldn't continue the relationship because he felt like he was falling behind. That sort of comment does make sense from someone with a strong Pallas. Pallas is rational and strategic. Your Karma on his Pallas would highlight and strengthen his Pallas. He would look at his life through Pallas eyes, the eyes of a general who will sacrifice some things for the good of the war. Emotional commitments are discarded if they impede progress.

I'm sorry that your relationship with your mom has been painful. Since your Karma triggered her Pallas, I'm guessing that at times she seemed to live her life for her own growth and didn't seem to care when her decisions denied you the emotional security, closeness, and nurturing you wanted. (Feel free to neither confirm nor deny this if it's something you don't want to discuss here.)

What's really interesting about all this is how you have Pallas on your ASC. So Pallas is a strong part of you, but I wonder how strongly you express it in your relationships (since you're "meant" to express it in that realm, b/c it's on your ASC). I can see how it impacts your outlook on life in general, since your profession involves therapy. And therapy is a rational, studied look at people's emotional patterns in order to help them live as the best version of themselves. So your Pallas is working to help other people study their patterns in order to make them whole and healthy. But maybe your Pallas also needs to be a stronger influence in your own interpersonal relationships.

Your mom and your ex's Karma oppose your Pallas. The opposition tells me that you feeling your Pallas isn't as natural an experience in this synastry as it is for them, since they have the conjunction. Maybe it means that you are resisting feeling your Pallas, or that it hurts to feel it.

So, it's my guess that both of these relationships are asking you to become more rational in the way that you relate in intimate relationships.

Being a Cancer can make that difficult. But I think that your 5th house Juno, Karma, and Pluto also play a role.
You have that trio in the same house, the house of romance. Let's start with Juno. I loved koi's description of Juno. I agree that Juno inspires an overwhelming sexual and emotional attraction. In my experience though, issues around power and control do come into play. Juno, as the "marriage" asteroid, is a possessive Venus. That intense attraction is incredible, but then you have to go your separate ways (can't be together 24/7), and Juno doesn't like that. Juno wants to hold on to all that intense attraction. She wants it to last, and for her partner not to experience it with anyone else. That desire for exclusivity can lead to power and control issues.

Now the 5th house is the house of romance, but it's more the house of light, fun, Venus-style romance. Venus is flirtatious and a seductress. She likes to enjoy herself in the moment. Throwing Juno in that house means that your Venus and Juno are united. You don't want to be only Venus or only Juno. You want to be both, to be loved as both, and to love your partner as both.

I can relate to that. I have Venus quindecile Juno. (The quindecile is the aspect of obsessoin.) I need exclusive relationships (Juno), but I can't stand to be thought of as just the little wifey. I want to be the mistress AND the wife. I need to be Venus and Juno at the same time, and to be seen as both by my partner. Similar to you, I also have Pluto and Karma involved here. Karma sextiles Juno (my only narrow Karma aspect), and Pluto is on my Venus/Juno midpoint.

posted September 23, 2008 05:36 AM            

Sorry, I just saw tonight that you had replied on this thread. Thanks so much for your take on Pallas/Karma. I have to agree that I am learning to incorporate my Pallas into my relationships in terms of flattening out the Juno/Pluto effect of the 5th house. To tie this all together, I have Virgo ruling my 5th house and Mercury and Pallas in the 1st house conjunct my Ascendant. Mercury and Pallas are trine Pluto and square Juno.

I actually do use my Pallas. Some say I should use it less I am forever looking for patterns in all aspects of life, but what you said about loving in a rational way was noteworthy. I interpret that as learning to love without attachment, which is something I have never been great at, with all of my clingy Cancer placements and possessive Pluto aspects (and Draconic Scorpio energy) .

In fact, Pallas and the urge to categorize, compartmentalize and then synthesize patterns is one of the reasons I love astrology so much. I feel a deep passion for it, but it simultaneously helps me to stand back and have a look at things from a more detached standpoint. So, excellent point about that!

As for the conjunction versus the opposition, it's only my ex's Karma which opposes my Pallas, and rather widely at that. My mother's Karma conjuncts my South Node (just in case I wasn't completely convinced that we had some issues to work through).

quote:

---

Since your Karma triggered her Pallas, I'm guessing that at times she seemed to live her life for her own growth and didn't seem to care when her decisions denied you the emotional security, closeness, and nurturing you wanted. (Feel free to neither confirm nor deny this if it's something you don't want to discuss here.)

---

I could fill many, many threads about my mother, and I have no problem talking about it. The short version is this: what you said above is correct, plus she's a Scorpio. So there are alot of similarities in an energetic sense between my Mom and ex. Plus, he is the man I've loved the most deeply, completely and unconditionally, sort of like how you have a bond with your mother which can make you ache if it's denied you. So I can definitely see why he came into my life and what he was there to heal.

I just never considered Pallas in that way before so this was a good chat!

quote:

---

Emotional commitments are discarded if they impede progress.

---

Again, thanks for your insight.

posted September 23, 2008 06:29 AM            

My karma is conjunct exact my man's AC
his karma is opposing my moon/venus/saturn/NN

posted September 24, 2008 07:22 AM            

As Pluto, I am pulling the NN person forward so...

Actually, maybe I'll answer this question myself, and the rest of you can applaud afterwards??

I happen to think that my Karma asteroid, which is in Libra no less, is intimately connected with Pluto (they are conjunct by mere minutes). I believe that my karmic path is about depth and transformation...I think that's how I help people. No matter how my Pluto aspects anything else in my chart or another's, it's karma-fueled.

So maybe with the NN, I am helping my friend transform so that she can follow her path. And it's karmic.

I am both fascinated and nervous about the fact that Pluto is about to oppose my Sun and Venus beginning this autumn and then begin to square my natal Pluto. Did I also mention that my Pluto is Stationary Direct?

I kinda feel bad for my therapist.
Ah, whatever. He's a Scorpio, he can take it.

posted September 24, 2008 08:33 PM              

1) Longtime love-relationship with a man (lasted 9 years, marriage-like(:

My "Karma" in his 11th house
- cj. his BM Lilith
- cj. his P.o. Deep Reflection
- cj. his P.o. Bravery
- cj. his Mars/Node-Midpoint
- oppos. his P.o. Journeys
YES - I definitely spurred him on to be more bold, courageous, build his hopes higher and be more of a dare-devil, especially in his professional life - I supported him a lot in these regards and felt a deep urge to help him strengthen his self-esteem.

His "Karma" in my 11th house
- cj. his own name-asteroid in my chart (?)
- cj. my P.o. Popularity
- cj. my Moon/Pluto-Midpoint
- cj. Moon/MC-Midpoint
- oppos. my Saturn/Ceres-Midpoint
- oppos. my Saturn/Fortuna-Midpoint
HMMMM... more difficult to explain the other way around. Maybe he helped me discover my own "emotional force" and strength...and showed me the need to take my "nurturing needs" more seriously?

2) My last relationship - long distance, very (!) intense, ended miserably after one year

My "Karma" in his 9th house
- cj. his North Node (!)
- cj. his Psyche (!)
- cj. his Sun/Eros-Midpoint
- cj. his Sun/Chiron-Midpoint
- oppos. his P.o. Happiness
OH WOW - obviously my "karmic" mission was to teach him some basics of love - and about the healing effect it can have ... In fact, it was a fight for being honest, authentic, open hearted, tender ... and I have the feeling: I failed in my mission! That's why I left him, exhausted and heartbroken. (Who knows ... maybe it takes time for him to "swallow" that lesson ... maybe his next girlfriend will profit from that...)

His "Karma" in my 3rd house
- cj. my P.o. Discord
- cj. my Moon/Juno-Midpoint
- cj. my Moon/Ceres-Midpoint
- opposite my BM Lilith
- opposite my Hybris
- opposite my P.o. Fame
- opposite my Sun/Pluto-Midpoint
HUH ... from that perspective his "mission" was to "soften" my rather aggressive personality a bit, to teach me how to compromise more easily and how to bring out my more female side, maybe ...(?)

3) My current crush (not much has evolved between us so far...)

My "Karma" in his 2nd house
- cj. his Venus/AS-Midpoint
- cj. his Venus/Node-Midpoint
- cj. his P.o. Security
- cj. his Triumf
- oppos. his Toro
- oppos. his Pandora
NOW, that seems easy: I am predestined to raise his self-esteem and teach him something about his "personal" value as an attractive man ... ,-)