Author
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Topic: USA's Founding Fathers,Astrology
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Glaucus Knowflake Posts: 2761 From: Sacramento,California,USA Registered: Jul 2006
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posted October 03, 2008 02:07 PM
I have read about how the founding fathers of USA were into Astrology.....especially Benjamin Franklin.My question is why did they pick July 4, 1776 to sign the Declaration of Independence? To me, it seemed like a bad day to sign because of Sun Square Saturn and Mercury retrograde in Cancer The Sun is in alignment with Sirius which is said to be a powerful star. but I don't think that it trumps Sun square Saturn heck,I have Moon in alignment with Fomalhaut, but I am like..so what...it doesn't trump my t-square Moon square the opposition of Saturn and Jupiter-Neptune. my Saturn/Neptune midpoint happens to be exactly opposite Fomalhaut too. I have Moon in alignment with Fomalhaut and Moon oppose Saturn/Neptune midpoint with 17 minutes of arc. It's like My Moon=Saturn/Neptune and Moon-Fomalhaut theme in my chart. It could be the conflict of idealism clashing with reality as well as spiritual faith being tested by hardship. I admit that my Sun trine Moon might help ease the t-square too. it would seem to me that planetary aspects are more important than fixed star alignments.
maybe USA's Sun-Sirius alignment and Sun square Saturn share a theme. It could be issue of pride,ambition as well as arrogance of a patronizing nature(how dare our nature we act like somebody else's parents because our culture is superior - views shared by many outside the USA) Sirius * the Dog Star the Sun of the Sun the prime Sun of our Galaxy Ambition, pride, emotionality, fame, leadership, wealth, fires, drought, danger through impetuosity. http://www.astrologycom.com/fixedstars.html#Cancer a retrograde Mercury in Cancer, is not a good time to be signing documents....obviously when they signed the declaration of Independence,they didn't have all Americans in mind the retrograde Mercury has an opposition to Pluto, but the founding fathers didn't know about the undiscovered Pluto at the time. But to me, this country can have emotional biases that adversely affect decisions as well as can be very suspicious,and distrustful of others who they might not see as patriotic because they question the government. Ironically, USA was a country founded by people who rebelled against the ruling British government. If anything, back in those days, they could have been viewed as being unpatriotic or traitors to their sovereign nations. the same with Sun in Cancer square Saturn in Libra which doesn't seem like they truly cared about justice when they signed the document. Justice was very limited...I would say. Of course,conflict with authorities. I would like to get some thoughts from others about this.
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Kick It Knowflake Posts: 1032 From: Leeds Registered: May 2008
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posted October 03, 2008 02:32 PM
Agreed, Sun square Saturn is not ideal. At that time, Pluto/Neptune/Uranus were not known I dont think, so can discount them.The general good point seems to be the grand old conjunction in Cancer. Sign of the father. Sun/Jupiter/Venus/Mercury. With Mars (and Uranus) just behind. Moon is trine Mars and Q the Cancer stellium, which is ok, nothing special, but ok. Depends on the ASC as to why they chose that day. Maybe more to do with transits. If Sibley is to be used (Sag rising) Jupiter will have conjunct a few planets. Later on 10th November, Jupiter started to retrograde, smack on the natal Mercury, which is a possible 7th ruler, thereby bringing it into focus. Actually quite good. When a planet moves into water signs, it aspects (in a good way) all them planets in Cancer. All good things come at once. This is true for the reverse. When a planet is square all them Cancer planets, it will all be bad....unless the square was from Libra, due to Saturn being there. Lots of bad points with the square to Cancer planets, but decent events due to the conjunction with Saturn in Libra. Good mix. IP: Logged |
katatonic Knowflake Posts: 501 From: ca, usa Registered: Jan 2008
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posted October 03, 2008 03:32 PM
i think they had to work within the framework of the time they were in and the events they were dealing with. sun squ saturn (ruled by capricorn, substitute england!) is a challenging aspect but better than no aspect, and saturn IS exalted in libra...no? the cancer first house puts capricorn (again, england) in the 7th, partners, and open enemies...and cancer (the sign of the MOTHER, isn't it??) a nurturing, security seeking sign is a great persona for a country.where is our progressed sun, anyone?? IP: Logged |
Glaucus Knowflake Posts: 2761 From: Sacramento,California,USA Registered: Jul 2006
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posted October 03, 2008 03:51 PM
I actually put a lot more emphasis on aspects than sign and house placements. ...especially how astrologers differ on house systems and there are some astrologers who use Sidereal Zodiac. I am a tropical Zodiac astrologer myself,but I intend to put more emphasis on planetary geometry, and so I like to focus more on things like geometrical patterns. I am also interested in harmonics too.I don't really don't put much emphasis on exaltations,falls,detriments,home placements of planets. I don't believe that exaltations work that much,and I definitely don't believe that they offset hard aspects in any way. as for that exalted Saturn in Libra in USA's chart,with it being square Sun.........well nobody can deny that USA have a strong history of unjust laws(Jim Crow laws comes to the top of my head as well as laws barring women, we have gay marriage bans..I am talking about not just the past,but the present too) as well as there is considerable corruption in the justice systems as well as disparities when it comes to the justice system. There is also many marriages that go wrong too. There is a high divorce rate. A lot of gays say that we have rigid views about marriage.
I have seen people with exalted Moons that are very emotionally unstable and/or their mothers are
I know people with exalted Mars including my own mother that have problems with anger and other Mars-related things. I guess it really depends on the view of the astrologer
maybe the founding fathers thought Sun-Sirius alignment was well known I do believe that USA's retrograde Mercury really plays out a lot...when you think of the Declaration of Independence was not written in mind for all Americans. Also...our Constitution has 27 amendments too to rectify problems of not considering certain liberties,rights of others. I also pointed out in another thread that USA has Sun-Venus-Mars-Jupiter-Pluto planetary synchronization in the declinations,and that's considered a super successful configuration in Magi Astrology with the Mars and Pluto, a military power...a super power. Magi Astrology focuses a lot of declinations. It's focuses solely on planetary geometry,and so they don't use signs nor houses. Declinations weren't used in the days of the founding fathers. They wouldn't have known about Sun-Venus-Mars-Jupiter in planetary synchronization in the declinations. IP: Logged |
Geocosmic Valentine Knowflake Posts: 994 From: New York, NY Registered: Sep 2007
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posted October 03, 2008 05:10 PM
Hi Glaucus,Actually, they certainly did know about declinations. Remember that a great majority of the founding fathers were Masons and they were very skilled at astrology, Benjamin Franklin in particular. Also, I wanted to offer that there is proof in Abigail Adam's diary/calendar that the Declaration of Independence was signed around 2:15 AM, making the Gemini Rising chart correct. The time was later rectified by Evangeline Adams to 2:13 AM. Many people argue that it would be dumb for them to sign the document early in the morning, but it was explained to me that the Masons often performed "rituals or ceremonies" early in the morning and author Don Borkowski explained that it would more than make sense for them to sign it at that early hour because the act of signing the document was considered to be illegal, an act of treason, thus putting themselves and their families in danger. It still happens from time to time that our modern Senate will hold votes around midnight and later, so it's not that surprising. If you look at the current Solar Arcs for the country, you'll see that SA Neptune is about to conjunct the ASC, an ego wipe-out to our country is about to happen. I also believe that our borders are about to become more porous than ever. IP: Logged |
taurusvirgoleolady1974 Knowflake Posts: 270 From: where I am Registered: May 2008
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posted October 03, 2008 06:33 PM
Isnt the date of America'a birth wrong as a portion of our population was enslaved? Every one was not free, so how could there be a Declaration of Independence. Wouldnt this be null and void, astrologically? Please no arguments, I've always wondered this. On 23rd September, 1862 Abraham Lincoln issued his Emancipation Proclamation. The statement said that all slaves would be declared free in those states still in rebellion against the United States on 1st January, 1863. The measure only applied to those states which, after that date, came under the military control of the Union Army. It did not apply to those slave states such as Delaware, Kentucky, Maryland, Missouri and parts of Virginia and Louisiana, that were already occupied by Northern troops.It was not until December 1865, when the Thirteenth Amendment of the Constitution had been passed by the House of Representatives and had been ratified by the required number of states, that slavery was finally abolished everywhere in the United States. common knowledge in the history books that President Abraham Lincoln put forth his famous "Emancipation Proclamation" order. This proclamation effectively gave freedom to all of the African-American slaves. It went into effect on January 1, 1863. and what about "Juneteenth" where slaves did not know they were free?!... However, because of antagonism, this order was not set into action in Texas. Two and a half years after President Lincoln had officially freed the slaves, Major General Gordon Granger and nearly two thousand troops of the Union Army arrived in Galveston, Texas. The date was June 19, 1865. Granger broadcast the news that the long-fought Civil War had finally come to an end. More importantly, he also advised the citizens of Texas that all slaves were now free, per orders of the President so, maybe this is why there are bad race relations. what if we were all free on the same day. slaves were totally exempt from this "declaration" like i said if you want to argue, please find another site. its so draining.
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Geocosmic Valentine Knowflake Posts: 994 From: New York, NY Registered: Sep 2007
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posted October 03, 2008 07:56 PM
Hi TVLL1974,As with everything, it's a possibility. But along with arguing, research can also be exhausting, but if you wanted to test that date along with the time of the signing, etc., testing specific events that happened in this country, you might find that you're correct. It's interesting that even though I put out that time for the 7/4/1776 Chart, there are many astrologers who use different times for that date and they all seem to yield incredibly accurate information for the events of this country. Also, Mundane Astrology works by different rules and different energies and symbolism interpretations. I understand that slaves were not free when the document was signed, however, the awareness of that fact was HUGE and I like to think that the energy of the words in the document were highly influential in making sure that it came to pass that all men and women eventually became free in this country. There were many countries in the past that had institutionalized slavery and countries now that we don't like to think or talk about that currently have slavery. There official constitutions don't mention freedom or democracy for their countries and it's not a priority for them to make sure all their citizens are free...and they're not. Even though slavery has been abolished in this country, there are still forms of it that still exist today here in the U.S. But I suppose it stays in the realm of philosophy at this point, in terms of poverty, education, choices to join the military, etc. I must admit, I can't continue this post and I'm sort of thinking out loud, but I have to leave my office now, but I think I'll look at that chart for the date The Emancipation Proclaimation was signed. Geocosmic Valentine ------------------ "Everybody is a star!" Sly & The Family Stone IP: Logged | |