posted October 03, 2008 02:07 PM         

My question is why did they pick July 4, 1776 to sign the
Declaration of Independence?

To me, it seemed like a bad day to sign
because of Sun Square Saturn and Mercury retrograde in Cancer

The Sun is in alignment with Sirius which is said to be a powerful
star.

but I don't think that it trumps Sun square Saturn

heck,I have Moon in alignment with Fomalhaut, but I am like..so
what...it doesn't trump my t-square Moon square the opposition of
Saturn and Jupiter-Neptune. my Saturn/Neptune midpoint happens to be
exactly opposite Fomalhaut too. I have Moon in alignment with
Fomalhaut and Moon oppose Saturn/Neptune midpoint with 17 minutes of
arc. It's like My Moon=Saturn/Neptune and Moon-Fomalhaut theme in my
chart. It could be the conflict of idealism clashing with reality as
well as spiritual faith being tested by hardship. I admit that my Sun
trine Moon might help ease the t-square too.

it would seem to me that planetary aspects are more important than
fixed star alignments.

maybe USA's Sun-Sirius alignment and Sun square Saturn share a theme.
It could be issue of pride,ambition as well as arrogance of a
patronizing nature(how dare our nature we act like somebody else's
parents because our culture is superior - views shared by many
outside the USA)

Sirius *
the Dog Star
the Sun of the Sun
the prime Sun of our Galaxy Ambition, pride, emotionality, fame,
leadership, wealth, fires, drought, danger through impetuosity. http://www.astrologycom.com/fixedstars.html#Cancer

a retrograde Mercury in Cancer, is not a good time to be signing
documents....obviously when they signed the declaration of
Independence,they didn't have all Americans in mind
the retrograde Mercury has an opposition to Pluto, but the founding
fathers didn't know about the undiscovered Pluto at the time. But to
me, this country can have emotional biases that adversely affect
decisions as well as can be very suspicious,and distrustful of others
who they might not see as patriotic because they question the
government.
Ironically, USA was a country founded by people who rebelled against
the ruling British government. If anything, back in those days, they
could have been viewed as being unpatriotic or traitors to their
sovereign nations.

the same with Sun in Cancer square Saturn in Libra which doesn't seem
like they truly cared about justice when they signed the document.
Justice was very limited...I would say. Of course,conflict with
authorities.

I would like to get some thoughts from others about this.

posted October 03, 2008 02:32 PM         

The general good point seems to be the grand old conjunction in Cancer. Sign of the father. Sun/Jupiter/Venus/Mercury. With Mars (and Uranus) just behind. Moon is trine Mars and Q the Cancer stellium, which is ok, nothing special, but ok.

Depends on the ASC as to why they chose that day. Maybe more to do with transits. If Sibley is to be used (Sag rising) Jupiter will have conjunct a few planets.
Later on 10th November, Jupiter started to retrograde, smack on the natal Mercury, which is a possible 7th ruler, thereby bringing it into focus.

posted October 03, 2008 03:51 PM         

I don't really don't put much emphasis on exaltations,falls,detriments,home placements of planets. I don't believe that exaltations work that much,and I definitely don't believe that they offset hard aspects in any way.

as for that exalted Saturn in Libra in USA's chart,with it being square Sun.........well nobody can deny that USA have a strong history of unjust laws(Jim Crow laws comes to the top of my head as well as laws barring women, we have gay marriage bans..I am talking about not just the past,but the present too) as well as there is considerable corruption in the justice systems as well as disparities when it comes to the justice system.
There is also many marriages that go wrong too. There is a high divorce rate. A lot of gays say that we have rigid views about marriage.

I have seen people with exalted Moons that are very emotionally unstable and/or their mothers are

I know people with exalted Mars including my own mother that have problems with anger and other Mars-related things.

I guess it really depends on the view of the astrologer

maybe the founding fathers thought Sun-Sirius alignment was well known

I do believe that USA's retrograde Mercury really plays out a lot...when you think of the Declaration of Independence was not written in mind for all Americans. Also...our Constitution has 27 amendments too to rectify problems of not considering certain liberties,rights of others.

posted October 03, 2008 05:10 PM         

Actually, they certainly did know about declinations. Remember that a great majority of the founding fathers were Masons and they were very skilled at astrology, Benjamin Franklin in particular.

Also, I wanted to offer that there is proof in Abigail Adam's diary/calendar that the Declaration of Independence was signed around 2:15 AM, making the Gemini Rising chart correct. The time was later rectified by Evangeline Adams to 2:13 AM. Many people argue that it would be dumb for them to sign the document early in the morning, but it was explained to me that the Masons often performed "rituals or ceremonies" early in the morning and author Don Borkowski explained that it would more than make sense for them to sign it at that early hour because the act of signing the document was considered to be illegal, an act of treason, thus putting themselves and their families in danger.

It still happens from time to time that our modern Senate will hold votes around midnight and later, so it's not that surprising. If you look at the current Solar Arcs for the country, you'll see that SA Neptune is about to conjunct the ASC, an ego wipe-out to our country is about to happen. I also believe that our borders are about to become more porous than ever.

posted October 03, 2008 06:33 PM         

It was not until December 1865, when the Thirteenth Amendment of the Constitution had been passed by the House of Representatives and had been ratified by the required number of states, that slavery was finally abolished everywhere in the United States.

common knowledge in the history books that President Abraham Lincoln put forth his famous "Emancipation Proclamation" order. This proclamation effectively gave freedom to all of the African-American slaves. It went into effect on January 1, 1863.
and what about "Juneteenth" where slaves did not know they were free?!...

However, because of antagonism, this order was not set into action in Texas. Two and a half years after President Lincoln had officially freed the slaves, Major General Gordon Granger and nearly two thousand troops of the Union Army arrived in Galveston, Texas. The date was June 19, 1865. Granger broadcast the news that the long-fought Civil War had finally come to an end. More importantly, he also advised the citizens of Texas that all slaves were now free, per orders of the President

posted October 03, 2008 07:56 PM         

As with everything, it's a possibility. But along with arguing, research can also be exhausting, but if you wanted to test that date along with the time of the signing, etc., testing specific events that happened in this country, you might find that you're correct.

It's interesting that even though I put out that time for the 7/4/1776 Chart, there are many astrologers who use different times for that date and they all seem to yield incredibly accurate information for the events of this country.

Also, Mundane Astrology works by different rules and different energies and symbolism interpretations. I understand that slaves were not free when the document was signed, however, the awareness of that fact was HUGE and I like to think that the energy of the words in the document were highly influential in making sure that it came to pass that all men and women eventually became free in this country.

There were many countries in the past that had institutionalized slavery and countries now that we don't like to think or talk about that currently have slavery. There official constitutions don't mention freedom or democracy for their countries and it's not a priority for them to make sure all their citizens are free...and they're not. Even though slavery has been abolished in this country, there are still forms of it that still exist today here in the U.S. But I suppose it stays in the realm of philosophy at this point, in terms of poverty, education, choices to join the military, etc.

I must admit, I can't continue this post and I'm sort of thinking out loud, but I have to leave my office now, but I think I'll look at that chart for the date The Emancipation Proclaimation was signed.

Geocosmic Valentine