posted August 27, 2002 07:50 AM         

I would like to refine it better. Our goal is to let the other person grow emotionally. In fact, Love more than any other relationship is a soil for mutual growth. We have to be patient till the partner comes up emotionally. The Willingness to teach and the humbleness to be teachable are of profound importance. Without these frameworks, Patience might wither into tolerance and acceptance but would result in no emotional growth on the part of the other person. I had a friend who used to go to jail(for beating a policeman) - his father was patient with him - he used to take him out everytime he gets into such a mess. The patience is good, but so far it hasn't helped in the emotional growth of this person. We can learn to 'adjust' with someone who is related in our work or family, but when it comes to an intimate relationship, we must help the lover to to grow emotionally.

Many people think if they found 'true love' then 'happy forever' - I find it to be untrue. Love goes through stages even true love even after the couple have developed bond and intimacy there are 'still miles to go' - there are still more to discover of each other - there are still more to enjoy together - there is never an end to it.

posted August 27, 2002 03:17 PM         

I guess something I've seen to be true in more in one case, though, would be that men tend to think that if their gal is down or unhappy about something, the men think that it's their fault; they end-up (only trying to help and care for the other, I'm sure) trying to fix whatever's wrong, and if they can't they get frustrated, mad, or down on themselves. A "fixer"'s not usually what the woman wants, though - so, guys, if your girl tells you about something that's bugging her (that's not directly related to your behavior ) she doesn't necessarily want you to fix it, she probably just wants some sympathy/empathy.

I know it sounds hokey, but I've seen more guys than is imaginable think that way.

Other than that, there's nothing I can think of. Truth is, I tend to get along better with guys than girls; they seem much more reasonable to me.

posted August 27, 2002 04:37 PM         

2nd thing I think goes very wrong with relationships is the pure lack of consideration. As far as a battle between the sexes goes (for example) I find women always seem to put their husbands/boyfriends down, whether they are joking or not, it is out and out rude. Men are taught as little boys to have alot of masculine pride, when you are talking to your friends and make a snarky comment about his appearance/job/money/body/car, you are putting his pride down, whether you or he realizes it or not, then things start to happen like a lack of respect for eachother.
As far as women go I find men don't realize some things they say either, and this is also only an example too. When women are getting their time of the month and get a little emotional or crabby, men say it's all in your head, Im sorry but a very quick lesson in basic biology will teach you it isn't. People don't want to deal with people as much anymore it seems, so we make up excuses why we shouldn't, why not sit there and just try to make your wife laugh for those 5 minuites? could end up being the highlite of her week.
I find if you take that extra couple minuites every day and think to yourself to try to be better with your better half then you will never forget why you promised to love them and them only for the rest of your life.
Try to be more considerate and understanding and try to have the time to listen, even if it means you're going to miss your favorite show on tv.
Im not saying Im perfect or my relationship is either but why would you devote your life to sombody and after 30 years of marriage think to yourself "what was the point of all this?" I know that's somthing I don't want running through my head. Those are just my opinions....

posted August 27, 2002 06:25 PM         

I totally get you on the venting thing. I've just seen a few of my guy friends take personal responsibility for their girl's mood (part of the reason why no matter how much some gals vent about guys I will always think that the solid majority of men have good hearts)...and sometimes they just have moody girlfriends & there's nothing that they could really do to reason her out of it (the reason being that "reason" usu. will do nothing against most people's "moods").

As far as practical fixer's go: with you there; for me, though, it's about the guy kind of taking charge. I really, REALLY (really, really, really ad infinitum) hate to admit this, but I've discovered that some part of me screams for a guy to "be a man" and make the decisions most of the time (probably part of my Pisces Sun that I'm not too fond of rearing it's head). I've noticed that if I can control I guy, I have zero respect for him (Scorp rising, anyone?)...but I also demand to be treated as an equal (Aq Moon, probably)...
Wow, I'd hate to be a guy dating me.
But everyone has different tastes, and that's a good thing.

PS - Have you decided on a place to eat yet?

Rue -

>>I find women always seem to put their husbands/boyfriends down, whether they are joking or not, it is out and out rude. Men are taught as little boys to have alot of masculine pride, when you are talking to your friends and make a snarky comment about his appearance/job/money/body/car, you are putting his pride down, whether you or he realizes it or not, then things start to happen like a lack of respect for each other<<

Let me give you a secular "AMEN" on that one.

posted August 28, 2002 11:54 AM         

proxieme, you hit it on the spot, barring a few exceptions, most look for empathy and understanding not fixers (For lexigram lovers here is an interesting piece - LISTEN contains SILENT in it). All they need is somebody who can simply quietly listen to their troubles.

Rue, you are right. I think the root lies in basically what you think of marriage - to 90 percent it is another kind of transaction. Whether it is sex or intimacy - most tend to see it as a wonderful experience - and their lover(husband/wife) is a part of it. It goes like this "I give you respect. You give me respect - I give you love. So you give me love - I give you satisfaction. In return you also give satisfaction." That kind of attitude is ok with business partners and legal transactions but not in intimate relationships. We dont make transactions with love and respect - It doesnt gel. I can see there is another face to it - a simple quarrel between husband and wife or lovers often escalates as battle between sexes - The wife is a female to war against or the husband is a male to control. The famous masculine pride - I have seen as much wish to dominate in women as it is in men - gender hasn't got to do anything with it.
When your character is basically weak and insecure, you tend to go with "transaction love" - you may have extreme sense of euphoria - but I will assure you what you are feeling is not love - may be it is the result of a rush of adrenaline - but it is not love, No.

Lovers end up disillusioned after marriage - where was all the 'beautiful periods' they enjoyed together - they come to the generalized conclusion - 'love marriages simply dont work'. I would want to tell them they never loved each other in the first place - they were simply 'having an experience' (if you ask most college students to say about love it is the most common phrase used - 'it is a beautiful experience'), that the love they felt for each other didn't scratch even the surface. But ofcourse they are not going to understand what I mean - so I never used to tell them.

posted August 28, 2002 07:08 PM         

PS - Have you decided on a place to eat yet?"

My current boyfriend is a libra (cancer rising [Cnj my dc], virgo moon [cnj mine ]). sily as it may be he strikes the right balance between not taking my crap and taking care of me. And we're going to Montana's tonight, mmm Anjohitos

Raj & Rue "I give you respect. You give me respect - I give you love. So you give me love - I give you satisfaction. In return you also give satisfaction."

posted August 28, 2002 11:05 PM         

Im not sure about just how deep love goes, but whether you're in collage or not I think you can love to what YOU feel is an abundance. I believe it's all how you view it (beauty is all in the eye of the beholder) We all have differant temperments, we were all raised differantly and so on, I know exactly why I like the types of relationships that I do like/the type of men I like.
For all you know, I just might feel about my boyfriend as you feel about whomever you may be with, it's all on how you percieve it, each person is differant, along with how they interpret their emotions as well as how they express them. What you may see as a foolish collage girl who will never know the true meaning of love untill she's 34 may actually be with the man who fill's her heart up enough to merry him and have his children/grandchildren and to love him undevotedley for the next 55 years. I think really that that's what most people are trying to achieve. From there they tend to say, O! O! O! Im with my soul mate! Ok, so maybe they arn't but they in their hearts and mind's they truley believe they are, I think thats what matters, some are ment to be with their soul mates and some simply arn't, Im glad for the people who arn't that they have found a deep enough love to suit them, and if they live life blindley-HEY! sometimes ignorance is bliss!

As far as stages in relationships (and correct me if Im wrong) Since all of us here believe in astrology to some degree or another on this site, but as well as humans having a natel chart's as do relationships and everything else that has been born. I think everything living has a life and therefore realtionships, I just think it's all about growing and so stages too, that leads up to those beautiful periods of any relationship, I was also mentioning in my post above that I think thats why you have to stay on top of the game, keep remembering that you have to give and recieve love, respect, honer, happiness, sadness, anger, and consideration. If you make a full effort you will never be able to stop remembering what it was you started, and if it still grows dry and you have tried all you can, well maybe then it maybe just wasn't ment to be. I think stress does alot to couples and it takes a toll on their relationships, and married couples seem to go through alot of that, rich or poor (in every way).

posted August 30, 2002 11:35 PM         

Iiiiiiiii'm not sure if this post is going to make any sense. I'm about to collapse onto my keyboard. G'night.

posted September 02, 2002 09:49 PM         

Peace.

posted September 02, 2002 11:55 PM         

I don't know if there's any special name for the spine reading thing or if it's something he has learned on his own. He was in a serious car accident and was told he'd never walk again, and now gets around great with just a cane for help. He dug deep into spiritual and New Age healing and learned it while trying to heal from his accident. He's having lunch with us on Thursday, and I will ask him more about it then.

About men 40-50 years ago--my grandfather was a Virgo with Moon in Cappy and he was a very strong man and still sensitive. My grandma's a strong, strong Taurus and didn't give him a choice! He used to do everything his mother wanted and said, and my grandmother picked up five, young children and left him and Oklahoma and went to CA on her own. She told him to grow a spine and learn that she's more than a baby making machine or stay in OK. Then went out to CA and started working in a factory to support my uncles and mothers on her own. He showed up a couple of weeks later with a new attitude that he never lost. He was strong and gruff, and my nickname for him was "fuss goat," even though I didn't know a drop about astrology at the time, but you knew he cared about you, because he learned to show it. He's the one that taught me to demand both out of a mate.

posted September 03, 2002 10:06 AM         

1.
Mensural expulsions are not like ordinary sending out of the unnecessary or 'cleaning'. They are found to be rich in several minerals, especially iron.

2.
The existence of menopausal babies. If mensuration was meant as the preparation of the ovary for a new egg - then how come babies are born, even after the cycles have stopped?

You have explained well howMensuration happens. Yet the question facing biologists is not how, but Why.

posted September 03, 2002 11:48 AM         

I didn't read your post superficially at all. I was impressed that you are sensitive to it and was backing up what you said with biological facts.

posted September 03, 2002 12:46 PM         

That's really cool. I guess the most anagolous situation in my fam would be with my maternal grandma & grandpa. She's an Aq. with a Taurus Moon and Cap Rising and he was/is a Scorp with some heavy Taurean influences (...taking a semi-educated guess...he was very much like a Taurus) - both really strong people. Different, but respectful of each other and those differences (even in coflict), with a lot warmth there. To the extent that I've learned to demand both out of a mate, that's where I learned it...I think they also taught me that you have to genuinely like the person you're married to/involved in a significant relationship with.

When I was talking about the sympathy for men, I meant (but didn't really get across) for the pure dumbstruck confusion I've heard more than a few express about "what women want". They may hear one thing from "the media", another from their friends, another from their thoroughly confused dad, and another 5 from their girlfriend(s).

Perhaps (and I'm just talking out of my *** here; so if you thorougly disagree, don't tell me - I most likely won't have the same opinion tomorrow...of course, if you do agree, this is what I have always thought and will always think, Amen) the real problem is that both men and women tend to take the "other" as a whole. Oh, what do "men" want, what do "women" want - instead of taking each person as an individual. Of course, certain generalizations can legitimately be made on occasion, but it's dangerous to assume that one girl's bread'n'butter is another's.

Dern - now I know what it feels like to be a person with heavy Libran influences.

Now that I've strayed from the actual subject and rambled on way too much, I'll stop.