posted July 08, 2004 10:29 AM         

I have changed my plans about moving to Idaho, suffice it to say, my mom is not at a stable point (emotionally) in her life where she can work in a family business. I felt it would be better for her to relax, enjoy life and start working part time to get her feet into the salon market in that part of Idaho.

That leads me to Mr. Taurus, who would like nothing more than for me to move to Arizona to be with him (and I would be close to my dad, who I get along with so much better than my mom). Here lies the problem.

Mr. Taurus has a small house that he is renting. He is also allergic to cats. I have cats. I am an animal person and I have no intention of changing my love for animals and helping strays find homes. He knew that about me when he met me. It was one of the first things I brought up.

He wants me to move in with him. Yes, we are engaged, but where is it written that engagement means two people HAVE to live together? He said he would compromise about the cats, meaning "You can keep them in a room, but I don't want them to have free reign".

....so I am slowly counting to 10....trying to keep my composure as my Pluto conjunct Asc sense this is going to be a control issue between us. How can I lock my cats in a room? That would be cruel. Why can't we have a room that they are not allowed to be in, or even two rooms - we can keep the door shut.

Then he said it..."I feel like you love the cats more than me and will chose them over me". Why did he have to go there...I can't chose...it may seem weird, but I had the cats before him..I told him..now "I" feel he is being unfair.

So I said "Look, I understand your position and maybe your current residence is just too small for all of us. Why don't I move out, get my own place and we can revisit this in a 6 months or so. Meanwhile, we can look for a house that we can buy, a bigger house and that way we can have a few rooms where we ban the cats".

Ummmm...no, he thinks that is a silly idea. Why have two houses and pay twice the rent? he asks.

I am thinking "Why make me choose? Why do I HAVE to move in with you?"

Ahhhh...he says I cannot compromise, that he feels like I am not only getting cold feet but that I am using this as a deal breaker. That I could easily walk away from him because of this.

I am getting cold feet now. I am worried that this is the beginning of him trying to change me. I know that relationships are about compromise..but he seems to be unrelenting in his views.

I still think that the best option would be for me to get my own place and we can re-evaluate in 6 months. He is right, if in 6 months we can't come to an agreement, then I will walk. I won't give up who I am or my cats. I did tell him that I will not take in any more cats (unless it's just to rehab them and find owners) and when mine depart this world, I will not run out and get more. We can have dogs and horses (and maybe a barn with outside cats since he is not adverse to that).

Still..he thinks I am not being open to compromise.

Any advice?

posted July 08, 2004 12:07 PM         

if you do give that up, you run the risk of being resentful, unhappy, and guilty. Why would he risk that from you? I would tell him that you would feel incredibly resentful down the line-make sure to add that down the line part-if you gave up your animals. Sure you two may get along in the short term, but eventually you would remember and get angry at the loss of your pets. It's not like you have children to replace them and I am sure he can't argue with that right now.

As for keeping them in another room, that's not possible, cats go everywhere.

If you want to put your foot down, do it. He's a Taurus and understands limits, if he doesn't then he is being insensitive.

That's a little harsh but that's my experience. My ex the Libra said he felt I loved my cats more than him which is incredibly insecure, to be jealous of two cats is a little crazy and I lost a lot of respect for him because of that. Ironic that now, he has a kitten and just adores the little guy. Now he understands.

BTW I USED to be allergic to cats too, until I went to the allergist, and cleaned up my diet. After a while my immune system got used to it and now that they are brushed and groomed, nothing bothers me about them. I do give them revolution which prevents fleas, ticks, or mites from getting to them and a lot of people are actually allergic to the flea dandruff, the flea debris that comes off cat's fur. Since mine have none and dont' go outside, there is not debris.

Good Luck on this, but like you said, he knew about the cats before, chances are he is just trying to make his life simpler and better. But this is one place where emotions rule. It can be done.

As for spending twice the rent, that's not fair to say, money has nothing to do with it because all you are asking for is a compromise. It doesn't have to be that extreme of a problem, an answer like that is designed to make you give up.

So I would as you said get your own place and stick to it, and see how he gets along with your cats. If it's close by moving together won't cost as much and if his place is that tiny then he ought to be thinking about getting a bigger place anyway.

In the old days...people got good jobs and bigger homes before they moved in together, and they planned together, they didn't just move in together and then say, what the hey??

This the planning stage he has to compromise if he wants to spend the rest of his life with you.

It makes sense too because you two make dislike living together so much for other reasons, you don't get married. Statistics say that couples who live together before marriage, do not stay married. That's because they are resentful over cramped apartments and lack of planning, as well as lifestyle choices that don't include them such as having cats.

Live apart until you get married but close by, he can feel more in control by helping pick out your furniture if he choses to. But in my experience it's a mistake to live before. Men are big on this though and I already told the Gemini I won't do that ever again. I did that with the Libra before it was official and I always felt cramped in his tiny place and resentful about it, years later.

Good Luck to you and your kitties,

posted July 08, 2004 12:51 PM         

Thank you for your advice. You reaffirmed what I was feeling and my decision making process.

I have decided to stick to my guns about my cats. He will just either have to understand or risk the end of the relationship.

I believe as you do, that the cats are an extension of me. I tried to explain that to him last night- my cats are my best friends, I do not see them as interchangable things like furniture. I was never a cat person until I adopted my first one at the age of 19. These two little ones are rescues from when I was a vet tech at an ER place in Portland almost 7 years ago. They are a part of my lifestyle and my self-esteem.

Today he called me, just to tell me he loves me and that he understands my point. I believe as you do, that moving in together causes much anguish unless the two people are ready and have a place together. I already did the "move across country to live with a man" I married him and we divorced 3 years later.

I asked him if he was okay with my plan, to move close to him, but not in with him. He said "yes, I just want you to be near me and I understand your decision, I may not totally agree with it, but I see your point".

So, we will see how things progress from there. I will look at signing a 6 month lease, we can go back and forth and have a real courtship / engagement and then work towards getting a house together.

As it is, it may be the best idea, because then we can look to getting married, move into our house, and he will then have 1 year left in the Army. He was already excitedly talking about the fact that he can then get a Federal job once he is out of the Army which will then give him the eligibility to transfer to another region with some seniority.

Then once we have had the house for 2 years, we can sell it, not pay the taxes since we held it for the allotted time and then we can move up to Idaho / Washington to raise our family.

I am also in agreement with the allergy thing. I used to be allergic to cats as well. After having them for a while I built up an immunity to them. I still need Benedryl once in a while when the pollen gets too high and combines with the dander. My cats are indoors only and don't have fleas- I brush them almost daily and vacuum at least twice a week.

Personally, I think he is just being stubborn and bull-headed..LOL...but he will learn that I can be very open minded to lots of things, but not when it comes to my animals

Thanks again for your words Natasha - I needed to hear them.

posted July 08, 2004 12:58 PM         

I agree, if he doesn't want anything to do with your cats, then your only option is to get your own place. He's being a meany if he just expects you to give them away. He's not placing any value on your feelings and your attachments to your pets. Not setting a good precedent for a long term relationship.

Stand your ground, Pid.

Is he REALLLY allergic? Have you seen him have allergy symptoms from being at your place with the cats? Because my Virgo ex, well he was really anal about his property and his stuff, and he figured that house pets only damage your stuff, and make your house smell, so he would claim that he was allergic to dogs and cats, making damn sure that my daughter and I never even harbored a HOPE that we could get a pet someday. At least, not while living with him.

And, usually if a person is allergic to cat's they're allergic to dogs too. So, it's weird that he has no problem with getting a dog, but the cats are a no-go. (?)

Some men think cat's are for girls only. MEN like dogs. I can't even count how many times I've heard a man say "I Hate cats"

I dunno, Pid...I would say that how you two work this one out will set a precedent for the whole relationship. Stand your ground, girl.

posted July 08, 2004 01:00 PM         

What is his Venus in?

I'm extremely allergic to cats, and a HUGE animal lover, having had almost every kind of domestic and wild pet you can think of. But as soon as I meet a guy who says he has cats, I honestly end it right there in my mind. Is it my Venus in Virgo? Or is it because I'm become MISERABLE when my cat allergy hits. Made MORE miserable since I have NO CONTROL over it. It's not my choice.

I'm allergic to their saliva even worse.

And my body reacts totally different to the cat allergy, than to other allergies I might get. The cat allergy is like I'm down with the flu.

So your guy is definitely between a rock and a hard place. If you know he'd do anything in the world for you, except that, then you both have to compromise. But the solution is not an obvious one, unless it's having two separate places.

As for living together, the stats have been mixed on that. I flip-flop on that, I hate to say. But if the relationship is the kind with the intention of getting married, I would NOT live together. After many years of seeing all (Libra) sides of this, I say it because a woman always invests more of herself emotionally, no matter how trivial her activities may seem within the "live-in" household. If the relationship ends, you are not protected legally, plus if you're intention was to be married, that's a double-whammy.

But what the heck to I know...

posted July 08, 2004 05:34 PM         

Well, he does have a slight allergy, but it is not severe. I wouldn't have continued to see him if it was- and I told him that last night. In the past I ALWAYS made sure if a man did not like cats or was allergic, I would move right on by and say it was nice to know ya. LOL....he is indifferent to cats, but he was not adverse, meaning, I heard him cooing and petting them without a problem.

His problem is when the place is not kept up like at his buddies house. He was in a major allergy fit - puffy watery eyes, miserable nasal congestion, but like he said "His friend NEVER vacuumed and he had about 2 inches of cat fur everywhere".

Mr. T has spent several nights with me and he was JUST FINE - he even commented on how the place appeared to not even have cats. I said "Yes, because I am allergic to them myself".

AJ, like you, I am very allergic to the salive, so I have to wash my hands after Pheobe slobers on me. It is bad enough that if she touches her nose to my face I get welts. But - I have learned to deal with it- he is NOT THAT ALLERGIC!! LOL...and I DO have to keep the place clean or risk an attack. My eyes are very susceptible to, what we used to call at the ER hosp "blowing up". That is when you get a cat hair in your eye and the eye swells up and waters - it's terrible.

His big thing is more than just the cats. It is like Natasha was talking about - sometimes some people pick one thing and use that in order to really get at another thing. He has been worried that I am not as "involved" in this relationship as he is. That I can just give or take it. Now, on some level that is true, not because I don't love him, but because it is my nature to understand that things may not work out and if they don't then I must be philosophical about it (So Saggie).

He has Venus in Cancer - so when he does make an emotional tie (combine that with stubborn Taurus with a Taurus rising) well, he gets very wrapped in it. Me..well, I am more prone to being a bit flighty and that concerns him BUT...my loyalty is real and I won't stray - but I can't be forced into changing what is such an strong part of my being.

He has his moon in Virgo and he is NOT allergic to dogs. I think he is using the cat thing more as a control issue - to see how far he can push me or maybe even to test my resolve (something that Natasha said that rings true). Well, I won't back down on this.

Now our intention is to get married, so I am not ready to jump into living with him. I am more content with us keeping our independence and then working towards a marriage and then living together. Heck, I could live forever in my own place...(again..how Saggie).

BTW, he made this really sarcastic remark, thankfully I didn't respond because I am sure it would have really rubbed him the wrong way. He said "So, your answer to compromise is to maybe have us live separately indefinitely?"...

Don't ask a Sag what you don't want to really know..because I almost said "Well, hell, that is my dream marriage - to love someone but live apart..yeah baby!!! The best of BOTH worlds".

posted July 08, 2004 06:28 PM         

Maybe it is my Uranus in Libra in the 1st. It does tend to give me those Libran qualities (combined with that Pluto rising giving me a Scorp flavor) no wonder I send mixed signals. LOL....

posted July 08, 2004 06:48 PM         

On the local news the other day, a lady had turned 104 years old, she didn't look at day over 70. Anyways, she was blowing out the birthday candles, and her friends asked her, "What's your secret?"

She says...

"Staying single!!"

Hilarious...

posted July 08, 2004 07:28 PM         

Yes, you are right. I think it is all working itself out. He has realized my resolve and understands my position. If it continues to be a bone of contention, then I will have to confront the problem and let the chips fall where they may. If that means we break up over cats, then so be it. If it is all about the cat issue today and I relent, then it could be about changing something else about me tomorrow or choosing where we live instead of going to Idaho when he gets out of the Army.

I am seeing the big picture, the down the road picture. If I do give up and say "Ah, okay, I will give up my cats or put them in a room" then I am not honestly representing myself and I will harbor major resentment towards him. Also, when the time comes for me to want to help another creature he may put his foot down..then what..I already gave in - so no, I won't walk down that road. He can take pills LOL...

I'm not trying to be flippant, but he needs to compromise as well.

posted July 08, 2004 11:21 PM         

A ten year investment in an ex Taurus, father of my children, has taught me a few things Pid. Plus, a squillion years with a Taurus mom, sisters and a Karmic tie to Taurus`s that should end in this lifetime

Hold your own needs equal to his. If you give up the fur faces whats next? Taurus like to be the bully boss ( and do a fine job ) but they need to understand compromise. I have personally found they don`t like the middle ground but feel they need the edge.

You will find the right way to approach this. After all, you`re a Sag and what a way you have with words.

Love and positive vibs to you and Mr. Taurus.

posted July 09, 2004 09:11 AM         

Have you thought about asking your Dad for suggestions?

He knows you very well and is probably the most significant male figure influence in your personality and emotional make-up.

Now that you are both older and (hopefully) wiser, there may come to mind contentious situations from the past that may provide insight into what would have made the results fully complete for both sides. As I have a feeling your partner is very much like your Father.

Food for thought.

Good luck

posted July 09, 2004 10:33 AM         

Thanks for the advice and I am getting that feeling from him that the more I stand my ground, the more he understands my position and respects it. If there is one thing a Taurus seems to understand it is being stubborn - I have enough stubborness to go around LOL....

He is not all that happy with my decision to move into my own place, but he has acknowledged that he really wants me close to him and if that is what will work for me, then he will go with it. He also knows I am prepared to live on my own forever if that means keeping my cats- because as you said, first it's the cats - then what? Take away my dream of having horses? He is not cruel, but he is obstinate and so am I

Thank you for your encouragement.

Aphrodite,

You hit the nail on the head. There are two things at work - things coming up from my past- my need to independence because of my fear of dependence. We talked about this latest issue with my mom and things became so clear- I have always held people at a distance and never took certain declarations of love seriously. Meaning, when someone said they loved me I would smile- but remind myself that tomorrow is another day and everything could change.

I learned that, as has my brother, because of my moms ever fluctuating moods. One moment she would love us so intensely, then next she would tell us she hated ever having children. I asked her about that last night, how she could treat us so harshly, even as kids and she said "Because you two would frustrate me and hurt me- so I needed to make you feel as terrible as me".

soooooooo...here we are....my bro with his Scorp moon and me with my Aries moon opposing Uranus. My mom is written all over it, but rather than be bitter I need to use it to move on.

My dad and I are very close and yes, Mr. Taurus is very much like me dad. My ex hubby had the same temperment as my mother- which is odd.

My dad thinks it is a very good idea for me to move to AZ and concentrate on my relationship with Mr. T. My dad likes him and thinks he's a great match for me. He also told me to stand my ground and that if I felt it would be a better idea to get my place for 6 months then I should do it. He doesn't want to see me jump into a living arrangement and make a life with someone and then have it not turn out.

On some level, I think I touch on a bit of an insecurity in Mr. Taurus- like I rattle him in some way. He has alluded to this- which I think is why he gets a bit "controlling" LOL...but in the end we both need to learn about compromising- but not on issues that affect who we are and individuals. His biggest insecurity is that I might just walk away and not look back. He also has a nutbar for a mom- in fact both of our moms are very similar. Weird...

AJ- I think I will look into that device. I think he will appreciate something like that- well at least his Virgo moon will

Thank you all for your wonderful support. You're all such super friends and I am grateful to have a network like this.

posted July 09, 2004 11:56 AM         

I'm still playing catch-up at LL after being away for over a week...so I just stumbled on to this thread.

I am so glad you are standing your ground, for yourself and your precious kitties. Time and time again (stupid) women give up their cats for some (worthless) man...to prove their love or some other such misguided (pathetic) reason. Well, it ain't love to dump the cats 'cause you think a man will love you more if you do.

Yeah. I have strong opinions on this sort of thing. I realize that your Mr. T has an allergy, but as you said, it's slight, and most people can learn to live and adapt to those allergies, as have you.

You've gotten some wise advice, and you are a wise woman yourself. I sincerely hope this all works out well for you, but I had to say that I really admire that head on your shoulders.

Much to you and your fiance.

posted July 09, 2004 11:59 AM         

It's just that the older I get, the more I value the beautiful souls of animals, and I have always been a great animal lover.

So apologies Pid, I didn't mean to send any harsh vibes towards you or Mr. T.

posted July 09, 2004 12:39 PM         

Hey there..no problem. I don't think that you are being judgemental at all!!! I like what you had to say and I respect your clear cut, direct Aries manner.

You are very right and I am standing my ground. I just sent him an e-mail (I am so much better writing that explaining verbally) and I let him know how much I love him and that I will not give up my cats (which he never asked me to do) but I was willing to make sure we had a clean house, ionic breeze machine and tons of benedryl when we merge our houses together in the future.

Basically, I said my level of commitment was evident when I said "yes" to his proposal and when I decided that I would move to AZ. Living on my own for a while does not mean I don't love him as much, but that I need for us to go through that courtship stage and when we set a wedding date, then we can look into getting a house and preparing a move. At this point I don't see myself moving in with him, giving up all of me and getting not much in return (meaning, living as a married couple, me making the compromises and him sitting pretty).

We'll see how he responds. I ended my e-mail with

"Just please don't change me - just please accept that I am this weird person that really loves animals and takes in strays. I promise it won't interfere with "us" and because I know that you are willing to put up with it, I will do everything possible to show you how much I love that...

Okay...so enough with the long letter....I do love you Nerdle toes..more than anything. I hope you understand that."

I mean hell, I am not all that wild about his garish wardrobe- I almost think is 1st house Sun makes him SO LEO!! He loves bold - busy shirts that just makes me want to cringe, but hey, I can deal with it if he wants to wear it. LOL...but I wouldn't make him change.