posted August 02, 2005 11:39 PM         

I was doing a Davidson composite on me and my present yet long-distance love interest (we'd be in a more "committed relationship if we could be together, and as is we're just corresponding). It shows a very tight kite, with Chiron conj Jupiter in Pisces (yikes) as the apex. (I tell ya, Chiron is sure having it's merry way with this relationship, for sure!). It scares me a little that the opposing planet to this is Uranus (double yikes).

In a midpoint composite, we just have a water grand trine (that includes a Moon-Chiron conjunction as one point...damn!).

posted August 03, 2005 11:58 PM         

"In a midpoint composite, we just have a water grand trine (that includes a Moon-Chiron conjunction as one point...damn!)."

Damn?
Sounds like a very moving relationship, IMO.. and in yours too, it seems.
Good luck!

These guys think your grand trine is important! http://www.cafeastrology.com/articles/soulmateastrology.html

posted August 04, 2005 01:02 AM         

I don't trust myself to be very objective about this, so anybody's input is welcome. A moving relationship? Geesh, we've been around the whole spectrum of emotion it seems (although we've not had a big, ugly argument so far...we have been both pretty p'd about the circumstance that keep us apart, however, just not at each other).

I like the ideea of the Jup-Ciron meaning a healing blessing. I could welcome that. LOL. I definitely feel this as a challenging relationship, a growth one. I feel I have to muster up everyounce of maturity to deal with it. A good thing,I suppose, but it's not easy. The thing that scares me is I can't see it getting easier, unless either he can come back to the US or I get over him (which I don't really want to do LOL).

In synastry his moon (in Aries) forms a kite, not a grand trine, with my grand trine (opposing my Libra Uranus). I don't get the feeling he completes me that much (possibly due to him being in another hemisphere at the moment LOL) - rather it's more that I feel he can bring out the better side of me, even though we're apart. When he was here and we were together, I was defintiely happier, more confident, and more at ease with my otherwise crappy existence. Even though he's away from me know I still feel confident and able to confront life (well, somedays are better than others!).

posted August 04, 2005 11:01 AM         

Very intriguing, because as a Pisces moon myself, I have many encounters like this -people with whom I share a seemingly instant affinity, whom I could have long and rather revealing conversations, yet nothing really develops. And then I tend to miss them once they have moved on. This sems to occur when there's harmonious contacts with my moon, espcially either a planet in a water sign, or with the other person's moon, Neptune or even Pluto.

This guy I'm into tight now is a Cancer, but his Sun's at the end of Cancer and only tightly aspects my Neptune and Saturn (fortunately a trine and sextile respectively). But His cancer Mercury trines my Moon by one degree. I can finish his thoughts - which unnerved him at first, and then he decided that was pretty cool, seeing Cancer Mercury tends to need a little help expressing itself directly. His moon sextiles my Mercury, so he doesn't feel defensive about me knowing what he's going to say before he says it. LOL.

His 1st house Venus-Pluto conjunction in Virgo opposes my Moon too, which can be unnerving for me - while I can know what he's thinking, he seems to know what I'm going to do next. On one hand, it's odd, but at the same time, what a relief it is not having a explain why I do this or that - he just "gets" it (and *thankfully,* his Venus mellows out his Pluto, so he isn't pushy about this). And as I was saying in another forum, we Pisceans aren't always so good at articulating our inner workings, even when we're very Mercurial otherwise like me.

Anyhow, back to you, I suspect his Pisces moon was a significant player here. I'd be interested about any moon-Mercury contacts - even subtle aspects would be significant (Pisces moon, afterall, prefers less overt avenues anyhow). Your water Sun-moon trine is a biggie too, even if it's not a very tight trine, since these are the lumineries and in water signs. Scoprio is of course very intuitive and pschyic, and works on pretty much the same frequency as Pisces. So anything that "reverberated" off his moon got picked up your Sun, and would give you the feeling of being "of one mind," even when there wass no conscious or overt communication going on. (I have this kind of thing between me and my best pal - she's a Scorpio moon.)

There would have been a little difference in how either of you experienced this - as the Scorpio and Solar individual, you would feel it as a reverberation or echo, a kind of harmonic and energizing vibration in your psyche. For him, the Pisces and lunar person, and thus quieter and more introspective, he would has sensed this more as a mirroring and identifying with you, a recognition of affinity and compatibilty that made him more open and receptive to you. Pisces can bond *instantly,* on an emotional, spiritual, or psychic level (or all of the above), with someone they recognize has an affinity with them (a quality that has its pluses and minuses ). Scorpio, in turn, yearns that kind of bonding, but is fixed and thus more hesistant and self-protecting - qualities that the more vulnerable Piscees can easily overcome (this is why Scorpio-Pisces contacts tend to be really, really intense, for better or worse. LOL).

Much of what else you listed suggest to me that either they aided in this Sun-moon trine and any Mercury-moon contact, or simply didn't get in the way. Sextiles and quintiles, for example, can make things easier, perhaps too easy, although very pleasant and agreeeable. That nothing developed may be due to no significantly intense, tension-creating aspects that compelled both of you together and form something more longlasting (Pluto is often good here, but also Mars). It is possible that it was your Sun signs - oppositions between fixed signs sometimes are "quietly" difficult, kind of like a mutually acknowleged stalemate. Each planet simply keeps its distance, without necessarily being openly hostile or disagreeable. And also, anything with Saturn that may have interferred and could have "cut things off at the chase," so to speak.

Trines between Venuses are very agreable, but because both planets are receptive in nature, this aspect tends to lack initative and needs contact frrom something else more energizing and outgoing to make it work well. Which, oddly enough you should have had - Mars-Venus conjunctions are *very* energizing. What sign and house was this conjunction in and how tight was it? Was Saturn anywhere in the vincinty?

posted September 01, 2005 03:41 PM         

i read something about the dalai lama's chart not that long ago; he happens to have a kite with a moon / neptune conjunction in virgo as the apex. the kite formation supposedly speaks of evolved spirituality, and his chart demonstrates this beautifully.

i would think a davison chart with a kite would indicate a relationship that has an air of spirituality to it, to put it very simply. with jupiter / chiron as the apex, this would symbolize a need for the relationship to be grandly (jupiter) heroic, regenerative (chiron). chiron has a very dual nature. it is the part of us that wants to be heroic, yet needs training, needs coaching. it is the part of us that has returned, often exhausted, from a journey and needs to be healed, to recuperate. contacts involving chiron can remind us that we are super heroes ready to do the impossible AND they can also remind us of failures and past hurts, past wounds. chiron says it will be a learning experience, an adventure, a challenge and something that, faced creatively, will give you the courage to articulate. i can only imagine that jupiter / chiron in pisces in a davison makes this a very special spiritual adventure for both of you, one that is both healing and challenging.

with uranus opposing jupiter / chiron, i'd imagine there's an unpredictable quality to the healing, to the growing. it comes in spurts. this opposition is part of the kite, though...so its energy is expressed differently than just a regular old opposition by itself.

i think the jupiter / chiron kite apex is fascinating. let me just say that i am more inclined to view chiron as the teacher that he was, the one who prepared heroes for their feats. he was probably the greatest teacher in all mythology! he taught heroes and royalty everything from hunting, fighting, medicine, herbs, and music to religion. he did get wounded and to ease chiron's suffering, zeus (a. k. a. jupiter) immortalized him into the constellation centaurus (a. k. a. sagittarius). given the connection in the mythology of chiron to sagittarius and jupiter, it is rather interesting that chiron is connected to jupiter in your davison.

here are some good articles on chiron (i don't know if maybe you've seen these before, but i'm including them anyway):
http://www.aplaceinspace.net/Pages/JMWholeness.html http://www.aplaceinspace.net/Pages/CandyChiron.html http://www.aplaceinspace.net/Pages/ExpandingChiron.html http://www.aplaceinspace.net/Pages/CandyChironOverview.html

i'm not sure i've actually added anything here, but hopefully you'll enjoy those articles.

posted September 02, 2005 08:46 PM         

Unfortunately we've mutually called it off, at least unless something changes in our situations so we can be together (I'm in Texas, he's in Europe). There was something weirdly Sagittarian about our relationship though. However, at the moment, I'm in no mood to ponder this - it is a pretty big disappointment. but thank you anyhow.

posted September 05, 2005 03:33 PM         

i don't like to hear that you have experienced that level of disappointment -- i know how mind-numbing and freezing it is when a life experience surprises
you with uncontrollable joy and comfort, extraordinary kinship, visceral physical attraction, and an immediately apparent capacity for growth and mutual support ends abruptly for circumstancial reasons beyond the control. it is somehow 100 times more difficult to cope with it ending compared to the ease with which it was established.
before i met him,
i had never been lucky enough to experience a friendship like ours. the truly amazing similarity was that we both have tight (10 minutes) uranus rising configurations with the exact same aspectual arrangements natally and compatible house placements and this appeared to be a reason for the highly unusual sync between us that was at once immediately familiar and exciting. the friendship bond was indescribably close-knit and we literally could finish each other's sentences & unspoken thoughts, in a completely creepy-sounding but amazingly not creepy-feeling exchange and it became a haven for us. what it comes down to is we gifted each other with a rare and exotic gem of a friendship that i now miss so deeply that life seems horribly cold & flat.

i just want you to know i am thinking of you, and if you need anything please don't hesitate. i enjoy interacting with you.

-chrissy

posted September 06, 2005 03:34 PM         

yea, you know what i am starting to think? i actually think jupiter contacts in synastry et al could be one of the most important ties to have, you know? with g, his sun trines my jupiter (which is stationary), our jupiters trine each other (his jupiter is on his su/mo midpoint), and his venus (on his AC from the 12th side) parallels my jupiter by i don't know, 10 or 15 minutes maybe? one other thing, gosh, maybe you can actually enlighten me here, but i have been doing some looking into uranian astrology lately and the 16th harmonic (22.5 degrees) aspect has piqued my interest - supposedly this is a BIG deal to their school of thought. i read that a tight 16th harmonic aspect can be way stronger than a wide conjunction or opposition. the orb would have to be very small for this to work, i believe maybe no more than .25 degrees - 15 minutes? there is very little on meaning but from what i can understand, it's supposed to have all of the tension and energy of a square BUT also the key to making the square work. ooh, i just got goosepimples. it does fascinate me that there could be something to this, but i have to admit i don't know whole lot about uranian astrology so im not speaking with authority here. ANYWAY, so my jupiter is excactly 22 degrees and 30 minutes away from his AC. i um, don't know exactly what to think of that yet because i know very little about harmonic theory and uranian thought. i was just throwin that out there since hey, that could be a big deal, i dont know.

anyhoo, i wish i was actually home today (in austin) so i could add to this topic on davison aspects in composites. i really get the urge to contribute more here from time to time, because a real exchange about theory, practice, and comparison in astrology is very rare here. i could read through 20 pages of archived posts and i would probably glean only a small amount of the good stuff (the RATIONAL approach). anyways, i want to contribute more. i thought i would maybe add some other things to the thread so we can discuss. i am really interested in davison charts. you know, people really tend to dismiss them because they dont understand them. it is a composite yes, but since it is a time-space composite and not a midpoint i believe that it's importance is of a very real, very felt energy -- like forces that actually work on the relationship from OUTSIDE. the midpoint is almost not as interesting to me, actually. that's because it's really about inner forces to me, so that kinda stuff takes time to develop and if you're not present with each other it does not matter. so i have turned to the davison recently nd i have to say, it CLICKED. a pen pal friend of mine said to me that she has done a lot of research on the subject and in every case the davison always feels more REAL. i like how she said this; it makes tons of sense. i really kinda want to yell out loud when i think about what our relationships mean in a universal sense and what it means to experience one that seems perfect,
you know? i mean, britney spears & what's his face get married and how this is perceived by the general public, the image of their "union", well, it just sickens me. i guess i am disgusted by surfacey and fake. you know what it is? it's that very tight t-square i have with the sun, moon and pluto. i know im incredibly plutonian, those energies are very present in me. anyway, i know i shouldnt take a media couple for example for a variety of reasons (any idea i have of them as a couple is just the image portrayed; i dont know the real them), but i dont care, the example still serves my point that i am totally baffled at a couple like that (or any example of a very limited connection, one that is very shallow)
and my own personal experience of something that seemed like the perfect connection (on a jillion levels).
why in the world did i get to experience that if it was going to end that way? and then we get to see britt & ho ho come together in wedded bliss? how can that even be, or happen? i know...i know that really what i am expressing is essentially about the qualitative value of a relationship, and i am basically saying mine means more than hers does and this really doesnt jibe with my views, either. i really do think though that there is something very very wrong with how things work by just having met him and the circumstances being what they are.
i cannot fathom the simple beauty of true kinship, family (but you know, not family in that there's well, romantic and sexual energies too) co-existing with incredible lack of depth.
then i think to myelf that perhaps i am crazy and i have idealized him and i do not have perspective here. since i have reacted in the way that i have that is. usually, gn, i am so incredibly detached from life and other people i think i may even somehow have some sort of serious psychological issue with this, because i cant even personalize an interchange between people i happen to like very much with ease -- i am almost insane enough to refer directly to a person i am interacting with in such a way as to make the other person uncomfortable -- like they are subjects and not human. i guess i do have a difficulty with emoting to some degree. someone i am actually pretty good friends with told me this recently, that he has observed me doing this and it is pervasive in my nature. so this leads me to really analyze the hows & whys of how strong my emotions have been lit up, how they've been turned on after meeting g. i don't get it. why him? there's got to be a reason i have reacted this way and it is there somewhere...there has to be. i just can't explain it in terms i am inclined to use. i tend to put my energies into the reason and logic and patterns behind things, and not so much the esoteric or subjective or spiritual. i only do spiritual when i can somehow relate it to the intelligent design part. after all, you can study advanced math or physics and totally see it, you GET there is intelligent design to the universe if you understand it...numbers really are the universal language that teach us the real truths, the ones that you can accept as true without any exceptions. the language that we use today is limited, man had to develop it and it...can't be taken for anything other than what it is -- it's not REAL, we made it up and the words we use today when we communicate are flawed because we made up the meaning, too. at least, it's flawed when you consider people trying to communicate in a subjective and personal way...have you ever experienced being around a couple and you watch them talk AT each other? they dont get each other's language, they don't define things in a similar way. i got to witness that in a big way this weekend. i watched my 2 friends have a fight and it was painfully obvious that they were on totally different planets! i guess this is why i have an intense urge to recognize that language is limited and it is going to fall short, maybe even way short, of communicating effectively and truthfully the concepts and ideas relating to emotion and the personal. i mean...essentially i struggle because i find myself in a situation where *i* am experiencing something personally $ emotionally and i need to be able to comprehend it in a way that makes sense to me. yea, so basically i guess i could say that i met the giant love of my life...i could even say i met my soul mate. i guess i could say i have found my one true love. see...even typing those things just makes my skin crawl. what the hell do those expressions mean? i dont get them. in fact, i will go so far as to say that i think they are stupid because since a very large percentage of the population uses them in about a jillion different ways they have absolutely no meaning.

yet...i have been profoundly affected by g, i cant really express it. you wanna know what it is? i found someone that instinctively knows me better than anyone else...i have found probably the best specimen of a friendship and it has affected me so deeply that i am compelled to stop calling anyone else a friend...isnt that crazy? i would never do that of course, i have plenty of friends and i do NOT like the idea of saying one is better than the other. that's just silly. how can you compare one to the other? i guess, though, i could just accept that what i am trying to express here is about the nature and development of friendship and even love. how does it express, and how am i affected?
i guess this goes back to my emotions. and there it comes around again to something i said before about the personal and subjective experience with regard to another person. there ya have it. im so not in touch with my emotions that it is crazy. i cant comprehend really what it means to me to have a subjective and personal reaction to someone because for some reason i have a very hard time owning my emotions -- i guess there's the good old process of projection, huh?

astrology has taught me a lot, really, and i am trying to understand and acclimate what this means. i believe strongly in the idea that what happens in the heavens is reflected by energies present here in our day to day interactions. i cn completely relate to harmonics and aspects becuse they make sense to me mathemtically. i am amazed that basically, music relates to math because chords correspond to well, aspects - numbers, geometry. that right there chills me because when i think about what emotions i experience on a non-thinking level when i listen to mozart's requiem i know at that moment THIS is where the magic is, the part of life that is more than just science and truths and pure, rational logic. those emotions i feel defy logic when i hear that piece and therefore prove to me that there is not only an intelligent design to the universe, but an unexplainable one that demonstrates something about the spiritual nature. i dont know, exactly. i also trust the mythology behind astrology even though i do like to question it and really understand it. i think somehow mythology has sprung about from some fundamental truths about our humanity, like mazlo's hiearchy of needs...somehow the planets and the dieties associated with them represent basic spheres of concepts like communication (language - as beings we must interact) or responsibilites...things we must do in order to stay alive. if i think about it this way it totally clicks for me. astrology hs helped me to get in touch with a certain magic or whatever you want to call it am at least glad about that.

(i am SO SORRY i went on and on for like 8 pages! i got a little wrapped up.)