posted November 12, 2005 01:16 AM         

I'm new to this site and have been enjoying reading your posts these past few days. I have an astrological/relationship conundrum myself, in regards to which I would welcome any comments or suggestions.

I've fallen hard for what my astrologer friend calls a "pretend Libra." He is a Libra sun, but his Moon, Mercury, Mars and Neptune are all in Scorpio. His Ascendant and Venus are both in Virgo.

His chart meshes beautifully with mine. My Sun, Mercury, Venus, Saturn and Chiron are all in Pisces (so we share lots of water in our charts.) What's more, my Ascendant is in Libra (conjunct his Sun) and my Mars, Uranus and Pluto are all in Virgo.

We have several double mutualities. His Venus conjuncts my Mars, and MY Venus trines HIS Mars. What's more, we have Linda's favorite love aspect also as a double mutuality. His Venus conjuncts my Pluto, and MY Venus is in opposition to his. We also have many other cross contacts in our charts...lots of trines and sextiles, and just enough squares & oppositions to keep things interesting and dynamic---just enough tension, as it were.

EVERYTHING I've been reading (by Linda, as well as in the umpteen other astrology books I now own) points to an amazingly profound karmic connection--very likely soul mates or twin flames. In fact, I've had two professional astrologers tell me after just glancing at our charts, "good Lord, it's a wonder you two can even keep your hands off one another!" One of them, whom I'd never met before, actually asked me how long we'd been married. When I told her we weren't even a couple-- "just friends" and coworkers with an admitted mutual attraction, she was stunned. She said "you mean you're not a couple YET. There was no way on earth you two could've avoided one another. The attraction would be/must be impossible to resist."

Here's the deal in a nutshell: we met, hit it off like gangbusters, and began exchanging scores of emails and letters, in addition to spending as much time together before, during, and after work as we possibly could. All the while it was (and remains) just talking--to this day we've never so much as held hands. Initially, though, we'd even gone so far as to admit that we couldn't say we weren't in love with one another.

However, I was unhappily married at the time, and as soon as I made plans to leave my marriage (for serious reasons having nothing to do with this man---my marriage was over long before he and I even met) he suddenly hit the brakes. Out of deference to my husband's privacy I didn't feel I could tell Mr. Libra why I was leaving, just that he wasn't responsible for it. He didn't see it that way, assumed he was responsible, and consequently backed way off. He even tried to tell me he was sorry if he'd misled me. He remained friendly toward me, but not nearly the way he had been. Once I moved out and he finally understood the real reasons behind my divorce, he gradually began to step things up again. The end result is that we've spent the past 2 years flirting our you-know-what's off and enjoying the heck out of each other every chance we get at work. BUT THAT'S IT.

I should also mention that he is very close friends with another woman who is also madly in love with him. She is not one of our coworkers, just someone who's known him for years. They (and their kids) spend a lot of time together, though he's always gone out of his way to tell me they are not dating and are just friends.

Phew! Sorry for writing a book! If anyone is still awake after reading this, would you please offer some thoughts?? My friends maintain that the primary reason he and I still don't socialize is because even though I've been out on my own for 2 years, I'm still legally/technically married. They think I shouldn't expect him to make any kind of move toward me until that's done and out of the way in January. My best friends hear all about the things we say and write to one another and are constantly telling me "of COURSE he's interested! He's as crazy about you as you are about him...he just can't admit it, and WON'T admit it so long as your divorce is not final."

There must be something to our connection because people at work have speculated for years that we had (or are having) an affair. We used to joke that "Let's Give Them Something To Talk About" should be our theme song.

So I guess what I'm asking you all is do you think I'm crazy to believe this is a "meant-to-be" thing? Why do I keep hearing Greg Behrendt's "He's Just Not That Into You" in my head when I think about how much personal time he spends with the other woman while spending zero with me? On the other hand, I've also heard/read many times that true soul mates and/or twin flames almost always have to overcome some pretty rugged obstacles in order to beat the odds and finally be together. If any of you can relate to any of this...I'd sure love to hear all about it. Thanks a million for taking the time to read this insufferably long post! I promise I'll keep it brief from here on out!!

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We have more possibilities available in each moment than we realize.

posted November 12, 2005 02:34 PM         

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We have more possibilities available in each moment than we realize.

posted November 12, 2005 03:58 PM         

Stick around, you'll see more wind than that!

Welcome! Sorry, I dont have time to read it all right now.

posted November 12, 2005 04:22 PM         

Namaste!

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We have more possibilities available in each moment than we realize.

posted November 12, 2005 07:36 PM         

Part of why this has dragged on so long is that it's taken me forever to wind things up with my soon-to-be ex. My girlfriends insist that's the lion's share of it. In fact he just made some comment about it the other day when I told him that my ex used to say I was selfish. He said something like "Right. And HOW long has it taken you to get this divorce? Something you could have had wrapped up in 90 days took you what--6 years from the first idea of it until the time you took action, and then when you finally did THAT it's been another 2 years since?? No. That's NOT selfish." And then again last week when I told him how another of our colleagues was pressing me about why he and I haven't yet gotten together--especially now that I'm single-- when we obviously enjoy one another so much and that I'd corrected her by saying "yes, I'm single in the sense that I've been living on my own for 2 years, but technically/legally..." and before I could finish the sentence he finished it for me. "YEAH. You're STILL MARRIED."

On the one hand, I catch myself thinking if it's taking this long--it's just not meant to be. Then on the other, I know he's the kind of guy who'd never budge as long as the marriage was a factor in any way, to say nothing of everything I've read about how difficult and long the process of finally connecting with our soulmates can be.

I'll say this much more. This other woman with whom he's friends, has done everything under the sun to turn their friendship into a full-blown romance. They're going on 10 plus years of friendship (both been divorced for at least the last half of that time) and he hasn't jumped on that either. For a time, when I was beginning to buy into the speculation of one of my coworkers that he really was interested in this other woman romantically, I actually began to encourage him. It sucked for me beyond belief, but the only thing I want more than to be with him, is for him to be happy--however that has to happen. Eventually, though, I couldn't keep it up, and a year ago I came clean with him that I'd never lost my feelings for him. He was absolutely stunned---both at the news that I never lost my feelings for him, and by the fact that I would have subverted my own happiness for his benefit. He actually choked up and nearly cried at that. Just couldn't even get his head around it. At that point (again, this is a year ago) he told me how flattered he was, but (once again) that he would hate to hurt my feelings "if we never go beyond where we are." THAT seemed pretty straight forward too. I resigned myself right then on the spot that he really wasn't interested in me romantically anymore and that I'd have to let it go. Cried all weekend long about it in fact. But then in true fashion he turned the tables all over again! Within days of that conversation he was telling me that he'd been thinking it and rethinking it and was concerned that I might have misunderstood what he said---not because of anything I might have misinterpreted, but because of what he'd left "unsaid." THEN (without ever acknowledging just WHAT he'd left unsaid) he became even MORE attentive than he'd ever been before! Amped up the flirting like hell (which, for someone who is so concerned about leading me on is a pretty insensitive thing to be doing) and dialed up the sexual innuendo to smoking hot levels! And then...after several months of THAT, it turned quiet again for the better part of the summer.

He came back around this last time tenuously at first. Then, this past August, I finally got him over here to my apartment, albeit to help me assemble some furniture. It could/should have been a half hour job but it turned into a 3 morning in a row production. (And can I just say he showed up shirtless all 3 days!) He was taking apart his own furniture at home, for God's sake, in order to come up with the parts to come back over here and finish mine! He not only became SO suggestive in his jokes and comments that I thought for sure he was going to make an actual move, but he also began talking to me about much more personal things---like his relationship with his father. (In the past, one of the things he's said repeatedly is that he catches himself talking to me about things he's never ever discussed with anyone else--including his sister or best friend, and that he thinks it's so cool he can do that with me.) Anyway, over the course of those few days, he'd leave my apartment, then swap a dozen emails with me--many of which were making reference to how smoking hot I am--then call me at night to see if I needed anything at the store...it was really very sweet. I felt like we were getting closer than ever before. But as usual, that intensity didn't last.

Where we are today is here: given how much time we try to spend with one another at work, and how much fun we have doing it, I've grown increasingly sensitive to the fact that with very few exceptions, we still don't socialize outside of work. So I finally just told him 2 weeks ago that the only explanation I can come up with for that is that he just doesn't know what the hell to do with me. I'm a work friend, but not JUST a work friend because he confides things in me he doesn't tell his best friend since kindergarten. That, in theory, that should make me an actual personal friend...except THOSE are the friends you hang out with, and we don't do that either. I told him that I really didn't believe it had anything to do with any scarcity of time on his part, but rather some latent fear that making room for me in his schedule was somehow tantamount to opening pandora's box. What's more, I told him that in terms of having a place in his life I felt like a freaking vagrant, and that since he couldn't find ANYwhere to put me, it only stood to reason he'd have to place me NOwhere...so long as nowhere was also out of sight.

I couldn't believe I'd actually found the chops to tell him all that. He took it well, though he swore up and down I'd completely overthought the whole thing. Still, he assured me he "certainly didn't want me to feel like a vagrant" and that he'd be "more mindful of that in the future." That conversation came on the heels of me telling him, as well, that in spite of his open and easy demeanor (on the surface) that I believed he was one of the most guarded and emotionally closed off people I knew, and that he'd been engaging in a never ending cycle with me of allowing me to get just-so-close before reinforcing the walls again. He denied that as well, but we jokingly agreed to disagree. And lastly, just the other day, as we compared notes on the respective grilling's we'd each received privately from the coworker who is trying to figure out what's going on with the two of us and why we're not together, I broached the subject of him being involved with his other friend but working hard at keeping it a secret--which I told him I could certainly understand given how intrusive our colleagues are. First he acknowledged that when he was being questioned by this colleague about his and MY friendship, that he'd admitted to her that yes, he DOES find me attractive, and think that I'm "hot" and agreed that I was "special, sweet, funny, smart, kind and all around "terrific." Then, referring back to the other friend, he admitted that THEY DO spend a lot of time together, mostly with their kids, but added "the thing is...I'm not "with" ANYone. I'm really not. And quite honestly, I just don't see that changing in the days, weeks, months or who knows how long ahead, you know what I mean?"

And of course, I DO know what he means. I left it by telling him (unfortunately in an email rather than in person liked I'd planned) that I understood he had a limited amount of free time, and ofcourse wanted to spend as much of it as possible with his daughters. That even when he couldn't be with them, I knew there were obviously other people to whom he naturally gravitated, and as such I was not looking to usurp anyone else's position on his roster of friends. I just reaffirmed how much fun we both admit to having with one another, and that I'd be delighted to have the opportunity to do a bit more of it.
He was headed out of town for the long weekend so I've not yet heard back from him. I'm curious though as to the response I'll get on Monday--assuming I get one at all.

I'm a firm believer in the maxim that we create our own realities with every thought we think and belief we hold. As such, I struggle all the time with whether or not to hold firm to what I truly do believe down to my marrow--which is that this relationship is truly fated, and that we are made for one another--OR, to let that belief go in the face of all of his waivering and indecisiveness. I understand that I can't will him into being in love with me. But I do believe that faith and prayers CAN help open people's hearts and help them heal, which is going to have to happen for him in any case in order for him to--in his own words--"be with anybody." I guess the answer is to give it up to God, huh? Love him unconditionally, pray for his healing, but do my best to live my life as unattatched to an outcome in the matter as is humanly possible. If that's the case, then I guess I should also start praying for the ability to go longer than a minute and a half without thinking of him/missing him/wanting him. Man oh man if you've got any tricks to mastering THAT I'd be eternally grateful.

WOW. I am SO sorry to have droned on that long. So much for my promise to keep things shorter in the future, eh? I guess more than anything else it's just therapeutic to let it all out. For those of you saints and martyrs who hung in there long enough to actually read all of this, bless your hearts!!!

posted November 12, 2005 08:01 PM         

My ex is a Libra and we have talked about reconciling but it's been years-Venus in Virgo, Mercury and Neptune in Scorpio, Ascendant in Gemini, and Mars in Libra. He sounds similar to yours, very sweet, very flirty, and so on. Sends me great cards and flowers, but actions don't follow talk.

it's good that you were direct and confronted him but I wouldn't joke about your feelings-when you joke you make light of things. Keep it strictly firm for a while-NO flirting, NO joking, NO sexual talk AT ALL, unless he is going to be "with" someone.
Air signs do what they say, so to a Libra, talking about sex is having sex, with you, and you are not aware of it.

To a Taurus or a Cancer sex is unimaginable as a conversation, but to a Libra even with a water moon, talk fills his needs. Once you see that I think you will see why you must stop the joking.

Keep it that way and see what happens, something will, and he will think hard about what he misses.

Remember Libra and Talk=No Action.

posted November 12, 2005 08:34 PM         

I'm very hopeful you'll be right about him missing it.

Thanks again, so much!

Colleen

by the way...this Libra sun/Scorpio moon has HIS venus in virgo too. Oy ya yoy...what a thoroughly maddening combination!! =0)

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We have more possibilities available in each moment than we realize.

posted November 13, 2005 01:03 PM         

Having thought some more about what you said (gee THERE'S something new...me overthinking something!) I have to wonder--do you really think it's still possible to turn this boat around after 4 years (certainly the last 2 anyway) of giving him exactly the kind of 'brain sex' that he's obviously found so sufficient? I certainly don't want to think negatively and assume the worst, and believe me I'm still going to give it a try, but you don't think after all this time he's already made up his mind that it just ain't gonna happen with me??

My problem is that these are the times I have historically compounded our issues by actually TELLING him "I've been thinking and I have a theory that we haven't spent more time together because I've inadvertantly been providing you with mental sex--which seems to be all you've needed, so I'm not going to do that anymore." And of course, historically, that would be the kind of statement that would leave him scratching his head and wondering what the hell I was even talking about---LOL! SO...I get that I can't be telling him I'm wise to this and am now adopting a new manner of relating to him. But you really think just BEING this new way with him is something he'll actually notice??

Thanks again for your input. It really did provide me with a whole new perspective on things.

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We have more possibilities available in each moment than we realize.

posted November 13, 2005 06:30 PM         

He may even overreact and ask for an explanation. A simple one is best-without analyzing, just say it's tiring because it takes a lot of energy away from what you are doing. Bring him into it with the "we", as I prefer it this way for a while, not forever, are we cool with that??

If he knows he's part of your life still it's okay, plus he knows it's not forever. Only do that if he asks or wants an explanation.

But yes, he will continue to notice you,
Libras never forget-my ex is still sending me little cards, years later.