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Author Topic:   Innocent Flirtation.
Xodian
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Posts: 385
From: Canada
Registered: Dec 2006

posted March 28, 2007 09:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Xodian     Edit/Delete Message
A little something I wrote not too long ago. Would love to hear your opinions on the matter .

quote:
Ah yes... Thus I try to tackle yet another corner of the oh so neferious world of human courtship. *Sigh* I swear if people had enough sense in them, Dr. Phil would have been just your average joe head doc. with a basement for an office.

Jealousy is such a wasted emotion people.. really it is. You achieve nothing from it and it gains you nothing but pain and misery. Realtionships are hard; there is no doubt about that. Don't make it harder on yourselves by subduing your partner with unwanted chains of restriction. Talk about insecurity! Guys getting jealous because their girls just happen to have an amusing convo with another dude and girls steaming up with fury just because they so happen to see their guy smiling oh so sensually at a female friend. Its just innocent flirtation people!

We humans are affectionate and we tend to show it involuntarily to anyone we adore. Its jut natural. Doesn't necessarily mean we are gonna sleep with everyone we give a friendly wink to (and God help the person who actually does do that.) see, I believe in the open relationship model. Goes something like this:

Backbone: We both love each other.

Goal: Try to be ourselves and not get smothered by our partners yet at the same time be with the person we love.

Two important pointers:

a) Since we have established that we both love each other, its obvious that any affection generated towards others doesn't mean much. Thus, we are both allowed to talk, jest and even INNOCENTLY flirt with anyone we want.

b) If one partner doesn't wanna be in a relationship, he/she can leave anytime; No questions asked, No grudges, No anger (barring offcourse any financial or physical damage that may have resulted during the relationship Lol! I joke! I joke!)

Trust me people... this makes it a lot more easier on you and your partner. You can be yourselves yet at the same time you have a definate chance of proving to yourselves once and for all that your love is real. You're both mature enough to know that unwanted restrictions are for insecure losers.

HOWEVER... DON'T abuse the freedom and test your partner's patience. This model only works under the assumption that both you and your partner are mature minded people. If you really are in love and if you really are mature, you will know the meaning of the word responsibility.

If not... well girls, you can always put this sign around your guy's neck:



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CrankyCap
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Posts: 554
From: Powell, Ohio, United States
Registered: May 2006

posted March 28, 2007 09:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for CrankyCap     Edit/Delete Message
Awwww Xodian...such an idealistic, beautiful Libran theory! LOL...the idea is really nice, but it IS really difficult for some people...myself included.

No matter how high my self esteem is or how much confidence I have at any given time, I will ALWAYS get heated at the sight of my man "innocently" flirting and/or smiling at another pretty girl. But you know what, that's human nature too. Kind of an oxymoron don't you think? It's human nature to have a desire to look and flirt with others, but it is also instinctual to feel posessiveness over what you feel is "yours." Even wild animals get jealous. Two cheetahs fight over the female...the toughest one wins, and gets to mate. A lot of things in the animal kingdom work out of jealousy and competition between the same sex individuals.

I understand what you're trying to say, but that will be pretty tough for us Cancer/Scorpio/Taurus/Leo/Cap influenced people.

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Xodian
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posted March 28, 2007 10:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Xodian     Edit/Delete Message
Actually, its one theory that I have put into practice Lol! And well... yeah when it comes to committed relationships, I have had no luck *le weep.* However, it does gurantee that your ex doesn't turn into a flaming moster from hell.

Airy as this model maybe, it does highlights important factors of a relationship. I mean think about it... If its love (and I mean TRULY is love) why would seeing your partner just have a simple friendly chat with a stranger set you off? If you have given them your trust, then I am assuming that you can trust them enough to not go have a dual relationship with another person.

And if they don't wanna stay in a relationship with you, how would getting angry with them or blowing a fuse solve anything? If they want to leave then by all means, they can leave.

Its easier to move on that way.

Though yes its instinctive to feel possesive, one should also keep in mind as to the amount of damage it does as opposed to freeing your partner up to be who they are. A relationship has a better chance of thriving if both partners were given enough space to keep on exploring their individual personalities as well as being involved with you. Jealousy just hinder it.

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CrankyCap
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From: Powell, Ohio, United States
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posted March 28, 2007 10:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for CrankyCap     Edit/Delete Message
LOL Xodian...I was just going to come back and say, "it's a lovely 'theory,' but in practice..." You beat me to the punch!

I do think it is a great concept. Believe me, my jealousy has been a struggle since my first boyfriend almost 13 years ago! There are some things that I don't have a problem with, and a lot of it depends on the other "woman" in question, and the mannerisms and body language of my significant other.

The problem that I encounter is that it throws me into "competition" mode immediately. I become the "lioness." There is nothing worse imo, than feeling like I have to compete with other women all the time. I should be #1 ALWAYS! LOL...(don't mind that, just the Leo asc talking). I've found that one way to calm myself in these situations, is to "befriend the enemy." If I see a potential "rival" on the horizon, I befriend her immediately. Once I've done this, I feel on top again...confident and secure. This works for me MOST of the time, but there are exceptions.

I realize that as humans we're always going to "look," but when it is done blatantly right in front of me, I can't help but feel humiliated. I think that's generally disrespectful and rude. (Not saying that your theory reflects this, just hypothetically)

Every time I meet someone new, I am open with them about my jealous tendencies right away. I make it very clear what is acceptable and what is not, and I really don't think I'm all that demanding. However, I never trust anyone right away. It takes a while for someone to earn it through their actions as well as their words. Honesty is the first and most important thing I want in a partner. The same applies to myself...the second I find myself thinking of straying, or really wanting to see other people...I get out of my current situation immediately. I never feel ANY need to make things worse. It's the right thing to do.

I often wish I could trade my Scorpio Venus in for Libra. LOL...OMG it would make things soooo much easier!!! I could stay friends with ex's, no hard feelings, life would just glide along!

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Xodian
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From: Canada
Registered: Dec 2006

posted March 29, 2007 12:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Xodian     Edit/Delete Message
Well an interesting practice you have going there Lol! But personally... it all depends upon what you mean by "resonable restrictions." Having female friends around shouldn't be a crime or a case for infidelity IMO, and I don't think a female partner should feel threatened. Same goes with males and female partners. I mean taking the Leo asc. into view (I have got one as well BTW ), I would say that being a highly magnificent creature that you are, you should have the Liberty and the freedom to explore your own personality and mingle it up with other people so long as if the intentions don't go beyond just mingling.

And thus that is why I emphisize the second point of the model; If a partner feels that he/she isn't getting what they want from a relationship they should be allowed to let go with the minimal of collateral damages (unless offcourse the harm they cause goes way too deep.)

If the trust is there, then there shouldn't be an overwhelming feeling of Jealousy. And well... its been said time and time over again that trust is the basic foundation of every relationship.

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Isolaede
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From: Studio City, CA
Registered: Aug 2005

posted March 30, 2007 07:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Isolaede     Edit/Delete Message
Cancer sun in the 8th, Taurus moon talking here: Define “innocent” flirtation, X? In my book any form of flirtation is a sign of disloyalty. To flirt means you are making playful sexual advances on another person. I don’t see how that could ever be innocent. We flirt to get attention, to make people admire/want/desire us? Why encourage that kind of attention if you are involved with someone? It can never go anywhere. And by flirting you are setting the person you flirt with up for disappointment when he or she realizes you cannot give them what your flirtations seem to promise.

I for one, manage to work the fact that I have a boyfriend into any conversation with a new person, ESPECIALLY if my Cancer intuition tells me they are flirting with me. I distance myself, mention my boyfriend, and shut things down before the other person can get their hopes up. To me it seems like the most honorable thing to do for all parties involved.

I guess I’m just wired differently. I don’t think I could ever accept the kind of behavior you encourage in a relationship. Doesn’t mean it won’t work for you though! : ) That’s the beautiful thing about love – each couple has their own very special, and unique approach to loving one another.

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Xodian
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From: Canada
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posted March 30, 2007 07:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Xodian     Edit/Delete Message
Isolaede:

See, that's the problem right there. Who ever said flirtation had anything to do with love? Flirtation is just another friendly manner of expression. As I said in the quote in the first post, just because a person is being overfriendly doesn't mean he/she has nay intentions of infidelity. I think society in general has twisted the very idea of trust. Too long has the media portrayed the idea of flirtation as another attention grabbing, unfaitful act. However, if there isn't' any intention to cheat, how can it be unfaithful?

Again, it all comes down to trust. I think you can trust a person who you said "I love you" to can't you?

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GeminiLover75
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posted March 31, 2007 07:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for GeminiLover75     Edit/Delete Message
I think much the same way as you, Isolaede... I can't help it with my Taurus sun and Scorpio moon, loyalty is #1 importance to me. I ALWAYS let others know, very early into the conversation, that I have a boyfriend. I do get the concept about flirtation, in fact I tend to be prone to it myself at times (I know I'm contradicting myself here) with my Venus in Gemini... and if/when it does happen, it is so fleeting and it truly means nothing, in fact it's just friendly and fun and I know that it's being taken in that way in return. Obviously it's not something I do all the time, but only within safe boundaries and I haven't done it to anyone who would take it seriously. And when I have done it, it's generally because I wasn't happy about not getting enough attention from my own bf - so it would be more of a fun, fleeting ego boost.

I think the whole thing is TRUST... if I'm of the feeling that I can't trust my bf and he has no boundaries, or if I was being generally ignored by him, then any flirtation on his part would anger me out of this world. It's about putting your partner at #1 always!!!

If your flirting hurts your partner, you know it, and continue to do it, it's not harmless - it's a lack of respect.

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Dulce Luna
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From: The Asylum
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posted March 31, 2007 10:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dulce Luna     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
If your flirting hurts your partner, you know it, and continue to do it, it's not harmless - it's a lack of respect


I completely agree with that statement. And also that the reason having to do with the trust. Btw, I'm also a gemini venus, my bf's a libra venus.....were both prone to doing it at times. Although he insists that he is just being friendly; when I do it (and by mistake I must say), suddenly its "flirting". I love double standards sometimes. (Sorry, I didn't mean to rant)

I dunno, it just doesn't work with two watersuns. Maybe for two AirSuns its perfect. Everyone is different I suppose; what is the bane of one relationship may be the perfect solution for another. But if you know it doesn't sit right with your partner then you have to respect their feelings.

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Xodian
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posted March 31, 2007 12:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Xodian     Edit/Delete Message
Hmmm... From what I can gather from what I have read so far, it seems that restrictions in relationships get placed due to overwhelming self-image and self-confidence problems (for both guys and girls.)

Yet most of you DO admit to flirtation within safe boundries (i.e. indicate from the begining that you are with someone already.) That is the point I am trying to make here; Respect is a two way street. telling off your partner as to what they can or cannot do is just imposition of control. You know you're with a mature enough person to trust them to do the resposible thing and stay within bounds of a relationship. That IMO is the greatest respect anyone can ever give to another person; Trust them enough to waver off restrictions and let them be responsible on their own.

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Dulce Luna
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posted March 31, 2007 01:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dulce Luna     Edit/Delete Message
You know, I was just thinking that maybe it depends on what one would think constitutes as flirting. Sometimes I'm just having a conversation with someone I know and its misconstrued for something else because of any gestures or facial expressions I may have made (that were pretty harmless IMO). And vice-versa.

I want to stress that I don't do it to seek attention like 24/7.....no way. It just happens once in a while and without even realizing it. And of course there are boundaries that aren't crossed. I'm just thinking that for all the other "incidents", it could've been just what I mentioned right above in this post.

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GeminiLover75
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posted April 01, 2007 12:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for GeminiLover75     Edit/Delete Message
Yeah I've been accused of flirting by my bf when I really wasn't... and actually, I make a very conscious decision not to flirt, because I value my bf and I want to be loyal to him 100%. But if things are in a bad patch... and he's not treating me right... or not listening... then I deserve a harmless way to feel better. It is also 100% about trust. If he's flirted in the past and I've been angered by it, it's only because he's given me the impression (sometimes quite on purpose) that I can't trust him... I must admit that he has never given me assurance of his fidelity, and that plays into it. At the back of my mind, I know he's trustworthy, BUT being a Taurus/Scorpio, I need to HEAR IT. And be SHOWN IT. Create a basis of trust foremost, give me enough loving attention to begin with, and then an innocent random flirtation won't necessarily be taken in a bad way by me. It's about tending to your relationship first and giving it the right importance. Trust doesn't just form out of nowhere, it has to be given attention.

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BornUnderDioscuri
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From: Never Never Land
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posted April 02, 2007 12:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for BornUnderDioscuri     Edit/Delete Message
Awwww Xodian!!!! LOL how Libran....im sending this to all my friends currently accusing me of flirting with my Piscean....yes its still going on...lol...oh good lord the drama took a turn for heck. But yes nothing wrong with a little flirtation here and there, its oh so Libran But ill admit a little jealousy...ok some jealousy...im a Scorpio moon conj Pluto its exused

------------------
Sun-Gemini
Moon-Scorpio
ASC-Libra

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Xodian
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posted April 02, 2007 01:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Xodian     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
Create a basis of trust foremost, give me enough loving attention to begin with, and then an innocent random flirtation won't necessarily be taken in a bad way by me. It's about tending to your relationship first and giving it the right importance. Trust doesn't just form out of nowhere, it has to be given attention.

Oh but there are so many far better ways to do that than restrictive barriers. You would be surprised as to how just one ski trip can so change a gal's preception Lol! Its a given that you have to start off with a strong bond of trust; Its what's important in any relationship.

BUD:

Lol! They are still at it? Ah, how they reek of insecurity. Some people just ever can't stand to air themselves out. Just because they don't wanna be social doesn't mean the rest of us can't be.

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Dulce Luna
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posted April 02, 2007 03:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dulce Luna     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
Oh but there are so many far better ways to do that than restrictive barriers.

And is flirting one of them?


(BTW, I'm not trying to be snarky, I'm just curious to know and as to why)

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BornUnderDioscuri
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From: Never Never Land
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posted April 02, 2007 04:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BornUnderDioscuri     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
Lol! They are still at it? Ah, how they reek of insecurity. Some people just ever can't stand to air themselves out. J

Oh yes good lord. I gotta tell u a few stories. That actually caused a breakup between my bf and I...but we worked it out. BUt there is more interesting stuff to tell about another friend of mine and her bf who needs to be shot.

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Xodian
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posted April 02, 2007 06:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Xodian     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
And is flirting one of them?

Flirting is just your own little way of showing affection towards a friend, etc. It has no connective meaning as long as you remember that its just another social gesture.

Flirtation with a lover is on a totally different scale. Its deeper, more fulfilling and just plain worth it Lol! But the degree of deepness in flirtation between a lover and a friend is totally different.

BUD:

Will be on MSN shortly Lol!

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GeminiLover75
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posted April 02, 2007 11:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for GeminiLover75     Edit/Delete Message
I agree, restrictive barriers are something that is negative and it shouldn't have to exist... but I would ask myself, why is the person acting like they must put up these barriers? What isn't happening in the relationship that should be? The trust has to exist FIRST before one or the other decides it is reasonable to flirt outside of the relationship. Is the relationship solid in the first place? If not, then that comes first. Flirting with another person is no way to build trust, especially when the trust is lacking initially. Why is the trust lacking? Because one partner is flirting without paying enough attention to their partner, maybe the other partner has asked them not to flirt because it hurts their feelings, and they have gone ahead brazenly doing it anyway... that would certainly provoke a response that could be seen as restrictive by the partner who is flirting. If a lack of respect is being shown then often the other partner may demand respect by "telling" them not to flirt. Like I said, it depends on the strength of relationship to begin with, and in a serious relationship that really wants to go somewhere, that should be the focus first and foremost. Once the trust and respect is in place, and BOTH partners are confident in the relationship then it may be different.

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Dulce Luna
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posted April 02, 2007 11:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dulce Luna     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
Flirting is just your own little way of showing affection towards a friend, etc. It has no connective meaning as long as you remember that its just another social gesture.

Flirtation with a lover is on a totally different scale. Its deeper, more fulfilling and just plain worth it Lol! But the degree of deepness in flirtation between a lover and a friend is totally different.


Oh ok....veddy interesting. I have gotten what you mean about how flirting with one person (ie. your partner) might mean something while flirting with someone else (ie. a friend) might not mean as much but I'm still of GeminiLover's thinking: these type of things should not take place until trust in the relationship is well established....otherwise don't be in the relationship at all. Because if there is no trust and one decides to do such things then the relationship can easily fall apart. And also, I just don't think that people go naturally seeking attention in such suggestive ways from the opposite sex very often like that while in a relationship unless something is seriously wrong. I will stress that while it may and can happen once in a while when you are coupled up, if you feel the need to seek attention from other girls/guys besides the one you're with like almost 24/7 then maybe you should re-evaluate the whole relationship and figure out what you're missing (obviously its attention). And then consider whether or not to stay in the relationship. Call me old school if ya want but sue me, I'm a watersign.

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GeminiLover75
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posted April 03, 2007 12:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for GeminiLover75     Edit/Delete Message
And I'm a Scorpio moon, Taurus sun and grand water trine with Saturn in Cancer and Mars in Pisces, so it's obvious I would focus on loyalty and trust! The only time that I've really seriously flirted outside of a relationship was when I was not happy... I left that relationship within a short time after I realised why I was acting that way.

quote:
Because if there is no trust and one decides to do such things then the relationship can easily fall apart.

YES. I've directly experienced the effects of this (on the receiving end, I must admit). During a time when the trust should have been established, it was being undermined before it could even begin. It was supposed to be light-hearted I guess (and I even took it that way to start with), but the effects of it were more serious. Once that relationship became a long-term one, the effects of the lack of initial trust-building really became a thorn in our side. We're still working on it.

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let ther b light
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From: bombay, india
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posted April 03, 2007 09:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for let ther b light     Edit/Delete Message
hey xodian,
sounds like a totally chilled out philosophy...totally libran!!(i'm sure you must be thinking 'oh god not again!!!!')...but its true coz i have a libran cousin who i know has this philosophy....doubt it wud work fr me tho!!

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Xodian
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From: Canada
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posted April 03, 2007 06:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Xodian     Edit/Delete Message
Dulce:

But you are assuming from the start that the guy/girl has disloyal feelings, where as I already indicated that flirting outside of a relationship has no more meaning than a friendly gesture . If anything, in accordance to your statement, you're taking the viewpoint of a very fragile and rocky relationship, as if the couple in question is totally needy (i.e. don't wanna explore their own vitality anymore.) In this modern day and age I don't think a woman likes to be TOTALLY coddled as much as a man would want to be. Independence means women and men can now have a relationship yet be totally social without worrying as to if their partner would cheat on them and well if they do... its obvious that the very basis of their relationship support (i.e. trust) has been broken and its just not worth it being in that relationship.

If you're gonna be in a relationship, wouldn't you trust openly from the heart to know that your guy would do the right thing yet still be friendly and be a social bird that he is? Lol! (Speaking through an Air sign's pov offcourse .)

let ther b light:

Thanks for the input .

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Dulce Luna
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From: The Asylum
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posted April 03, 2007 07:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dulce Luna     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
anything, in accordance to your statement, you're taking the viewpoint of a very fragile and rocky relationship, as if the couple in question is totally needy (i.e. don't wanna explore their own vitality anymore.)


Well yeah true, but don't you think it also goes for relationships that are new, where trust is just being established?

quote:
In this modern day and age I don't think a woman likes to be TOTALLY coddled as much as a man would want to be. Independence means women and men can now have a relationship yet be totally social without worrying as to if their partner would cheat on them and well if they do... its obvious that the very basis of their relationship support (i.e. trust) has been broken and its just not worth it being in that relationship.

Errr, I wasn't really talking about doting on the partner 24-7 or not being able to be without them. Now that is just plain dependency, which is also a problem. I guess what I also want to say is that you can be social with the opposite sex without flirting like 24/7. Do you get what I mean? Its kind of like when I said earlier that there is a difference between outright flirting and just being friendly/holding a conversation with someone. Well atleast to me there is.

quote:
If you're gonna be in a relationship, wouldn't you trust openly from the heart to know that your guy would do the right thing yet still be friendly and be a social bird that he is? Lol! (Speaking through an Air sign's pov offcourse

Of course! Its been well over a year and while we have our ups and downs, were pretty solid. I can agree there.

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Xodian
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posted April 03, 2007 08:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Xodian     Edit/Delete Message
Well with any relationship there is always the courtship period Lol! Actually I would say this would be a very good time to get to know the close aquantances of your partner . That way, it usually lessens the inner growing doubt.

Offcourse, one can't go off flirting 24/7; I even mentioned it the first post :

Quote:

"HOWEVER... DON'T abuse the freedom and test your partner's patience. This model only works under the assumption that both you and your partner are mature minded people. If you really are in love and if you really are mature, you will know the meaning of the word responsibility."

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Dulce Luna
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posted April 03, 2007 08:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dulce Luna     Edit/Delete Message
OoOoh, you already did mention that. In that case, I also agree.

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