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Author
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Topic: Do men separate sex from love?
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listenstotrees
Knowflake Posts: 1605
From: Rivendell
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted September 26, 2009 07:59 PM
 
Just wondered how many people would agree with that or disagree.Equally, do many women do this? Speaking for myself, I probably could if I wanted to, but this does not feel natural for me.
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LEXX
Moderator Posts: 3479
From: Still out looking for Schr�dinger's cat.........& LEXIGRAMMING... is my Passion!
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted September 26, 2009 08:44 PM
I think it is more likely that people confuse sex with love.IP: Logged |
Lucia23
Knowflake Posts: 1658
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted September 27, 2009 12:26 AM
I think it depends on the person, for both men and women. In my personal experience (talking to male and female friends about this) that's been the case. I know some people who have a lot of clarity about both eroticism and deep emotional connections....others (like me--hello, Pluto square 7th house Moon-Saturn-DSC!) get more agonized trying to figure it all out. IP: Logged |
GypseeWind
Moderator Posts: 4340
From: Dayton,Ohio USA
Registered: May 2009
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posted September 27, 2009 01:42 AM
My friend and I have talked about this extensively. I am always picking his brain, and he is one of those guys that doesn't mind telling a girl the truth.He says yes that they do. Or at least he does. He said that making love and having sex are two different things and having sex is more of a release type thing that doesn't change or effect his feelings for the person he is in love with. so why does he do it? He says sometimes he can't always be with her, he says sometimes he wants the simple act and not all the emotional stuff attached to it. He says sometimes it is just there in his face. As for myself, I would have to agree with Lexx, I have many times confused sex with love. I have put up with relationships that were very disfunctional because the sexual aspect was so good.
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MyVirgoMask
Knowflake Posts: 3232
From: Bay Area, CA
Registered: May 2009
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posted September 27, 2009 05:09 AM
If the sex is really good - I mean earth-shattering-ly good - then it can be confused for love after a while. For both men and women.
In general though, I have no idea.
But amazing sex can feel like a someone knowing the numbers to your personal lock.I've confused sex for love. A lot. I got married for great sex. Obviously, it didn't work. But that doesn't mean I want to stop having good sex in my life lol IP: Logged |
listenstotrees
Knowflake Posts: 1605
From: Rivendell
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted September 27, 2009 06:19 AM
quote:
He says yes that they do. Or at least he does. He said that making love and having sex are two different things and having sex is more of a release type thing that doesn't change or effect his feelings for the person he is in love with.
Interesting.IP: Logged |
MyVirgoMask
Knowflake Posts: 3232
From: Bay Area, CA
Registered: May 2009
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posted September 27, 2009 08:07 AM
That's such crap to say making love and sex are two different things. No offense to you or your friend, Gypsee (I certainly don't mean disrespect).
I so don't believe that (though I've heard it before, I think during an Eddie Murphy stand-up act in the 80's)
Making love and sex are both screwing, if I may be so crude. There is no difference. It's that kind of language that perpetuates the virgin/wh0re dynamic, IMO.
Like one woman is good for one thing, while another is worthy of another kind of sexual expression... and yet our sexuality goes to both sides of the spectrum.
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Lucia23
Knowflake Posts: 1658
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted September 27, 2009 03:36 PM
I dunno, I think both sexual feelings AND emotional connections AND every place where they interconnect are highly, highly complicated. Each sexual interaction with the same person is unique from all of your other sexual interactions with that person--let ALONE interactions with different people.Some of the most erotic and sexually charged experiences I've had in my life have not involved any genital contact with the other person at all...and some of the times when I have had another human being's penis inside my vagina, it has been a pleasant but not particularly revolutionary--or even intimate, in the real 8th house sense--encounter. So while I see what you're saying, MVM, about the spuriousness of that old, dumb, Blues Brothers-era dichotomy....I also think that for men, women, people born with gender-nonconforming genitals or transitioning from F to M or M to F, and everybody else, a wide VARIETY of radically different experiences are (mis)classified as sex/not-sex or love/not-love. The part that I personally hate in these kinds of the discussions is the "What are Men-with-a-capital-M like/what-are-WOMEN-like?" part...that's soooo dumb...as if Divine, John Waters, John Coltrane, Louis Armstrong, a Masai tribesman whose name I don't know, some teenage boy in Mexico City, and Pol Pot are all the same person!!! As if they would all have the same sexuality or view on love!!! The categories "male" and "female" are a big problem anyway, enforced to maintain a creepy and outdated social heirarchy--but even if you buy those dumb categories hook, line, and sinker, the idea that you can generalize human erotic or emotional experience along those lines reallllyyy annoys me. I don't know why it annoys me so much. I guess it's because stereotypes about "men" and "women" are such a crude and inaccurate simplification of the exciting complexities of human experience that for me (as an 8th house person) make life worth living. I mean, I don't think it is possible to accurate categorize any one person's attitudes/experiences about sex and love over a month or a week...let alone 50-odd percent of the world population's. IP: Logged |
GypseeWind
Moderator Posts: 4340
From: Dayton,Ohio USA
Registered: May 2009
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posted September 27, 2009 05:51 PM
I hear you, and I'm not saying he (my friend) is right either, but I think that many men feel this way.And I know some women who do as well. As far as the virgin/***** thing, my friend does sleep with prostitutes, but he said that he felt that was more respectful then meeting a girl in a bar, buying her drinks, taking her home, doing the do, when he has no intention of ever calling her again. So that is his way of rationalizing it. Now here is a twist in question.....
well first the story then the question.
After a devastating break up, I went on vacation with my friends, many years ago.
We met up with another set of friends and drunkeness ensued, as you do on vacay in your youth..lol
Afterwards I went back to my room with this person and had sex with them, although I don't remember that part.
I remember waking up, and feeling horrified and guilty, and thinking all the things your momma tells you about girls who have one night stands, blah blah blah
But there he was and I thought, "I'm heartbroken any way, I'm on vacation, and I've already did it, so why not do it once more to see how it was." lol.
We never left that room the rest of the vacation.
I found that his lack of personal knowledge of me, and our lack of joint intimacy freed me so much in terms of sexuality, that I could do/say things that I never would/did in relationships, because I feared what the other person would think.
I learned alot about myself on that trip. That relationship lasted a long time, and MVM is right, sometimes out of that does spring love. And it can be tight love. I would have probably married that person had he asked me, and truthfully I've never forgotten him.
So sex/love, no hard fast (pardon the pun) rules there.
It goes where it goes, it ends when it ends, I just don't think we can ever really know that particular mystery, and I'm not sure I want to.
BTW, having sex with that "stranger" felt more intimate then the last year of having sex with my first husband. So...? IP: Logged |
MyVirgoMask
Knowflake Posts: 3232
From: Bay Area, CA
Registered: May 2009
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posted September 27, 2009 10:26 PM
Gypsee, I've had some amazing sexual relationships which were really just based on sex alone. And they were not superficial - it was like the sex was a catalyst for something more profound within ourselves, a mean of initially connecting.
I never really had that shame about exclusively sexual relationships, or even one-night stands. I may've had a few twinges of guilt in my early 20s, but I got over that pretty fast. I think when I got into my late 20's, I began to feel like my own sexuality wasn't separate from my identity. I think the separation of sex and love is actually kind of sad because ... well... I just can't imagine having sex with someone I do not want to be close to. I will love them for one night, one week, one month, one lifetime, whatever length of time we are together. And it's never 'just sex', because it's never just a release - maybe some men do that... but I don't know. If I just wanted release I would masturbate. So I guess some men look at women as something to masturbate with, which is kinda sad. But oh well, it's their loss for not aiming for a mind-blowing experience  I think it's interesting about your friend and how he feels less guilty with a prostitute than with a woman he meets in a bar. Seriously, the times I've let a guy chat me up at a bar and I went home with him, I never for a second thought it would ever be anything beyond a one-night stand. I never want to exchange numbers, and if I did, it was understood at the back of my mind that probably the relationship wouldn't go the distance....and that probably is judgmental on my part, admittedly. IP: Logged |
JustAmanda
Knowflake Posts: 77
From: Virginia
Registered: May 2009
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posted September 28, 2009 12:25 PM
The strongest connection I have ever felt with someone sexually was with my estranged husband. We fit together like a pair of the finest leather gloves ever made...when he took that part of our relationship away some years ago, I slowly began to die inside along with our relationship because for me, Sag/Taurus rising, it was the absolute best way to go to a higher plain with him and my love felt no boundaries...course all that is completely gone now as we are no longer together, so no hugs, kisses, no more I love you's..even though the sex part has been gone forever... kinda sad... IP: Logged |
GypseeWind
Moderator Posts: 4340
From: Dayton,Ohio USA
Registered: May 2009
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posted September 28, 2009 01:28 PM
MVM;
I find your attitude refreshing.Though, as a bartender, I've watched this scenario play out soooo many times. Girls I know, that frequent a place, they seem to be looking for something, other then just a one nighter. So in walks "dude" and I watch the game play out.
I tell them dont go home with him, if you want to see him again.
If you want him to really be into you, dont even give your number, geez, throw out some mystery!
They usually don't listen.
Then I spend the next x amount of weeks consoling said girl because she went home with him, he said lots of pretty things, and never called. If you want to meet someone and have sex and that is it, great, as long as that is the feeling expressed mutually.
I just think it is wrong to imply in any way that it will be more... This is why people get rich writing books like 'The Rules' and 'He's Just Not That Into You' because expectations are not expressed or discussed in the beginning. IP: Logged |
listenstotrees
Knowflake Posts: 1605
From: Rivendell
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted September 28, 2009 07:58 PM
JustAmanda, I know how you feel, the dying inside feeling. The only cure is to find something else for the mind to focus on. IP: Logged |
LEXX
Moderator Posts: 3479
From: Still out looking for Schr�dinger's cat.........& LEXIGRAMMING... is my Passion!
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted September 29, 2009 11:06 PM
Lucia23
quote:
Some of the most erotic and sexually charged experiences I've had in my life have not involved any genital contact with the other person at all...
Oh yeah!
From an old...I think possibly deleted very old post of mine (edited to add):
quote:
SPIRITUAL ORGASMSWhen I hug or hold or make love to my beloved...(and I am NOT speaking of simply SEX here!)I begin to swim...his energy is intoxicating at times...it makes me feel all floaty..stoned..and in a kind of stoned like ethereal feeling warm glowing haze. I cannot describe the joy I receive by giving him happiness and pleasure!(he is ~sigh~ gay...so I must content myself usually with giving rather than receiving the physical aspect to a degree, and fortunately the psi aspect carries me!) It comes back to me in such waves of ecstasy that I feel lifted up and my whole being seems to soar and fly and swim within his auric field. I could go on and on! I want to laugh and scream and sing with joy!
And often I DO!
I love making a lover happy!
I wrote elsewhere about my friend the Virgo
and the very stimulating energy work I did on him. 
Certain music will also move me to a spiritual orgasm. It will lift me like magic to my feet and I will without meaning to...begin to sway and dance and whirl and in a kind of trance state become one with the music. Or Aurora Borealis...or the
sight of the perfect sunset over water...or the sounds of the night and the bright stars and planets overhead in the wilderness. Or the rising of the full moon over the desert of sand..and the stars that touch the horizon while filling the night sky with more stars than ever one can see anywhere else!
So many things invoke within me a shivering ecstasy that surpasses mere sexual orgasms.
Having my hair brushed...oooh exquisite body shivers and tingles!
There is no way to truly describe to another this perfect bliss if they have never experienced it.
Moments of Euphoria! Rapturous Ecstasies! Ethereal Elevation! Serenades of the Soul!
Oh my yes! Magical Melodies of the Mind!
Sensory Transformation! That feeling which transcends all time sense and for a moment time seems to stand ever so gently and perfectly still in those exquisite moments where we experience true heaven here on Earth!
I love the ones best in dream that wake me up with their intensity....and I lay there then wide awake still shuddering in delight! Very cool! Funny thing is, the dreams that bring them on are very seldom "sexually" erotic! In dreams from which I am often awakened by such an orgasm..it is not from a sexually stimulating dream but instead from a dream where I am with or identifying on some levels with such as Pythagoras, Confucious..Einstien..Lao Tse..Stephen Hawking..Timothy Leary..Yeshua..Buddha..Dr.Ushui..Sargon1..Nikola Tesla..Marie Curie..Buckminster Fuller..Ptolemy..Da Vinci..Salvador Dali...various scientists, archaeologists, scholars.......many more...even aliens......
Well..you get the idea!
These type of orgasms are much like the sexual ones but they DO NOT ORIGINATE in the genitals! They start with the back of my head and then the area between my eyes begins to tingle and then shock waves like rolling electricity move down my body in rhythmic undulations that like in some ways are akin to birthing contractions...but involve my entire body. They increase in speed and intensity...without a pause...each wave carrying my senses higher and deeper at the same time...
Then upon awakening...and still in shuddering ecstasy from the experience...I feel tingly and my mind is overflowing with such amazing thoughts! I then MUST write down IMMEDIATELY what the dream was about and any diagrams of things that were presented there.
This has driven me to pursue the most peculiar subject matters.
Someday, I hope to experience in the physical what absolute perfection I have as of yet, only fully experienced in dream. 
------------------
Everyone is a teacher...
Everyone is a student...
Learning is eternal.
}><}}(*>
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MyVirgoMask
Knowflake Posts: 3232
From: Bay Area, CA
Registered: May 2009
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posted September 30, 2009 01:07 AM
LEXX, I call those 'heartgasms' ... I know that feeling (I've been lucky enough to experience it). It's absolutely amazing
It's as though every cell in the body is expanding and pulsing and shuddering with joy. That's how it is for me  I had a dream where I had this too, with someone (before it actually happened), but it was a man without a face. I was married at the time and sex was non-existent since we were having so many problems. I had completely shut down sexually.
And then i had this dream, and it was like that.... that complete and utter surrender and orgasmic yielding... no sex, just laying next to this faceless man, barely touching, and then everything igniting. I woke up from that dream and couldn't get it out of my head for months. It felt so sacred, like I had reconnected with myself on a core level, and after that, my marriage ended.... I think I had been given what I truly needed by myself, or something divine, or I don't know what.
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Crabclaw
Knowflake Posts: 19
From: Los Angeles
Registered: Jun 2009
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posted September 30, 2009 06:56 PM
We can just as women, but I think we are all looking for something deeper. "Man can't live on bread alone" No disrespect for Christianity but I think this rings true we all want to be loved and love and sex just makes that love more real but love can and sex can also fade and then die.IP: Logged |
LEXX
Moderator Posts: 3479
From: Still out looking for Schr�dinger's cat.........& LEXIGRAMMING... is my Passion!
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted October 02, 2009 10:28 PM
MyVirgoMask ------------------
Everyone is a teacher...
Everyone is a student...
Learning is eternal.
}><}}(*> IP: Logged |
popcorn
Knowflake Posts: 1551
From:
Registered: Aug 2009
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posted October 03, 2009 03:43 PM
Really good sex without feelings. I just say no no no....You will se it in the eyes IP: Logged |
raj_105_2001
Knowflake Posts: 46
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted October 19, 2009 11:33 AM
quote:
He says yes that they do. Or at least he does. He said that making love and having sex are two different things and having sex is more of a release type thing that doesn't change or effect his feelings for the person he is in love with. Interesting.
Why do you say it is interesting, listenstotrees? Isn't it obvious? I thought so. Is that a Taurus thing?
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