posted December 01, 2009 03:50 PM         

what about the feeling of being betrayed? how to get over it?

any tips?

and where to draw the line afterwards? how to deal with the relationship itself?

i mean, i (guy) can't conceive having sex again with someone (man) that has been "intimate" (passive especially) with someone else;

any, or many thoughts would be appreciated

posted December 01, 2009 09:32 PM         

It's the most personal of personal decisions, pire. It is between you, yourself, and your partner. I've been cheated on twice, by two girlfriends. The first one I broke up with when I found out. But we still had sex for a while after that. No sense throwing out the baby with the bathwater, right? That's bad, I know. Well, I was young. Sixteen. The second one was just about a year ago. She lived in Brooklyn (about 4 hours away), and after she cheated on me I tried to be relaxed, on account of the distance, and allow her some freedom. I figured, if she had permission, it wasn't so bad. But I got too jealous, and the next time she annoyed me I broke up with her. What bothers me, just as much as the initial betrayal, if not more, is that they didn't confess it to me right away; as soon as they came to their senses. I think I could forgive and learn to trust with some women, but both of these girls were immature and wild, and I was pretty sure they would cheat again. I would be on edge all the time.

Anyway, I dont think it scarred me. I still believe in faeries. I still trust people; at least, until they prove untrustworthy. And I found a truly decent woman, who is very devoted to me, and that gives me a sense of security. I hardly ever worry that she's looking at somebody else. I know, as long as I don't mistreat her, or neglect to appreciate her, or to let her know I appreciate her, then she'll be true to me. I know she loves me, and how much it would hurt her to hurt me, and I know she has a lot of self-control. So I don't worry. If she cheated on me, though, it might really screw me up. I'd never expect it, and I'd think, "if she can do that, anybody can". And then I'd be a mess.

I dunno if that helped, lol.

Hope you feel better soon.

posted December 02, 2009 04:25 AM         

I know that's super rigid but I know myself too well. I can't really see any situation where I'd want to carry on, regardless of how much I loved that person. When I'm in love with someone, even when it's rocky, I don't even so much as look at anyone else.

I take sex and relationships waaaaaaay too seriously. But then my Dad cheated on my mother and the end result was they split up and we lived on the breadline, no opportunities, no hedonistic lets-blow-the-budget fun, crap clothes and leaky shoes, no holidays, nothing. So it's not funny. Even the thought of infidelity sets my heart racing. I just wouldn't be able to cope.

I would be ok if my partner genuinely fell in love with someone else and wanted to be with her, but I wouldn't forgive if he lied and there was any overlap while he tested the water with her. No way.

God I should lighten up. Or go out with a Taurus.

posted December 02, 2009 04:27 AM         

quote:

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It's the most personal of personal decisions, pire. It is between you, yourself, and your partner

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posted December 02, 2009 04:55 AM         

quote:

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It's the most personal of personal decisions, pire. It is between you, yourself, and your partner

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posted December 02, 2009 11:33 AM         

*sigh again*

thank you for sharing.

posted December 02, 2009 11:36 AM         

quote:

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even if it meant nothing to him, I wouldn't trust him if he put our relationship on the line for something that meant nothing.

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Thats a persuasive way to think about it.

I may be a sucker, but I feel like, even if I choose not to forgive, -- or, having forgiven, choose not to be with this person, -- I still want to try to make their case for them. I know we do most of what we do unconsciously, or relatively unconsciously. Especially the bad that we do. If we were fully conscious of it, I think, we wouldn't do it. So I consider that the person may think they can get away with it, and that it will never hurt their loved one. They may even tell themselves that it is for the sake of the relationship. For instance, my therapist tells me that almost every adult male patient she sees tells her that they have issues with being attracted to their women (and I dont think lack of love is the problem). Maybe they were poisoned by the culture to be attracted only to svelt models, or maybe the culture made everybody fat and unattractive, lol, or whatever. Regardless of the reasons for it, these men (and their women) are stuck with standards that are impossible, or next to impossible, to live up to. And its not a case of unrealistic expectations, that one can cure by "coming to terms" with reality. Its too deeply inculcated, by the culture (running counter to nature), or by nature (running counter to the culture). So, while they may deeply love their wives, this sex thing keeps getting in the way. Anyway, the point is, these men may convince themselves that cheating is the only way to smooth over the frustrations surrounding the bedroom, and get back to what is really important. I honestly think this is the case with many men. They have sex with a stranger, or a casual lover, in order that they may make love to their wives. That's the argument, at least. And, while I think there are other options, I do sympathize with these men. Because, believe it or not, sex and making love are not the same thing, and most men (many women, too) feel like they need both; and maybe they do, in order to be happy. Ideally, you have sex with the same person you make love to. But ideals don't have much to do with life. According to my therapist, if these men's wives and girlfriends heard what they have to say, they would be mortified and would break-up with them on the spot. That's reality. So they keep it to themselves, or talk to a shrink about it. And since smooth relations with their partner already demands some degree of dissimulation, they don't see it as a huge leap from saying, "Baby, you are so sexy," to sleeping with another woman. The first is a lie that makes her happy and keeps them together. The second is a lie that makes him happy (if he can justify it to himself), and keeps them happy together (provided she doesnt find out).

Personally, I think our views on sex are way too romanticized and there's way too much possessiveness around it. But I dont know if that can be helped. Many women I've spoken to say that sex, for them, awakens emotions and cannot be divested from the sharing of love. I don't think they speak for all of us, though, and certainly not for the majority of men in the world. I know that, once upon a time, there were "sacred prostitutes" who provided a release for men (and women) who desired or required it. I don't know if their partners accepted this gracefully, but I do know that it was sanctioned by the authorities, and seen as a beneficial institution. Naturally, all this stuff is fairly difficult to talk about, as it triggers all sorts of insecurities. I guess that's why most people don't talk about it. And why so many men repress their needs and lie to their wives, or girlfriends. They want to do "the right thing", and fit into that perfect picture of married, or coupled, life. And they've been convinced that they're the ones who have the problem, and who need to "deal with it", or "get over it". Of course, learning to be attracted to a woman you are not attracted to is difficult, if not impossible. I'd imagine its even more difficult than it would be for those wives and girlfriends to get in shape. But God forbid they suggest their wives get in shape, lol, or else, let them seek extra-marital release. As I see it, these things are as difficult to talk about as they are to keep quiet. But that's life. I dont think we choose who to fall in love with, and I thank God every day that I fell in love with a woman who genuinely arouses me with her charms; physical and otherwise. I wasn't always so lucky.

I'm sorry about your folks, Wheels.

quote:

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just bones rubbing together in the dark

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I like this image.

posted December 03, 2009 03:46 AM         

Yeah, I forgave, and then he did it again. and then I forgave, and he did it again. And just keep repeating that sentence.
My fault for staying, but there were children involved, and like Valus, I believed that the good karma fairy would come and reward me with a totally reformed and humbled man.
Nope.
A leapard doesn't change his spots.
Once, I can see, people slip, they are human, and it also depends on the circumstance.
But, even though I forgave, I never forgot, so, maybe I truly didn't forgive???
I don't know. Things were never the same.
Sex was never the same.
I was scarred, I still am.

posted December 08, 2009 02:48 PM         

i his chart, and mine, we are compatible, but really this question is beyond relationship. i started the thread from a different angle, a relationship one, not so much an astrological one.

posted December 13, 2009 04:51 PM         

quote:

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originally posted by, wheels of cheese...

I wouldn't forgive and it would be impossible for me to continue a relationship with that person. Imagining his bits inside another woman? And then in me? No thanks. The thought of it sickens me, even if it meant nothing to him, I wouldn't trust him if he put our relationship on the line for something that meant nothing.

I know that's super rigid but I know myself too well. I can't really see any situation where I'd want to carry on, regardless of how much I loved that person. When I'm in love with someone, even when it's rocky, I don't even so much as look at anyone else.

I take sex and relationships waaaaaaay too seriously. But then my Dad cheated on my mother and the end result was they split up and we lived on the breadline, no opportunities, no hedonistic lets-blow-the-budget fun, crap clothes and leaky shoes, no holidays, nothing. So it's not funny. Even the thought of infidelity sets my heart racing. I just wouldn't be able to cope.

I would be ok if my partner genuinely fell in love with someone else and wanted to be with her, but I wouldn't forgive if he lied and there was any overlap while he tested the water with her. No way.

God I should lighten up. Or go out with a Taurus.

Pire.

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I pretty much feel the same way. At first you may think you can get over it but after a while, the littlest things unsettle you. You start to resent that person. Once a cheater, always a cheater.