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Author Topic:   The Scientific Method: A quest for truth.
Lara
Knowflake

Posts: 2688
From: aspideronmars
Registered: Apr 2009

posted January 15, 2010 11:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lara     Edit/Delete Message
LOL

He is back yes although i've ended it for good at the moment. He has too much catching up to do and i can't wait for him as he's slowing me down - so he will have to work on his issues before he comes back.
sigh.

Yes, i think Polo's gone.

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venus in gemini
Knowflake

Posts: 305
From: Florida
Registered: Apr 2009

posted January 16, 2010 12:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for venus in gemini     Edit/Delete Message
PA,
This is really off topic, so if you need to move, that's fine. But this was posted by Robert Wilkinson on Aquarius Papers, who was having similar issues with someone on his website. It just seems as if they all have a very similar "modus operandi".


Tactics and Strategies of Batterers and Other Abusive People
by Robert Wilkinson

As some of you know, a troll came here yesterday and laid out some fart bombs using flimsy pseudo-science to create distractions and a nasty atmosphere. When I saw his 3rd response, I knew I was dealing with an abusive male who was using classic battering techniques to try to keep me off-point. So I banned him, but it inspired me to share some insights about his obviously abusive behavior. Today I'll outline a few symptoms of how to recognize verbal battering techniques.

First of all, there is no difference between physical and verbal battering when it comes to rationalizations. All abusers use the exact same techniques and reasoning to make it everyone elses' fault and urgent concern that they have to continue to press their agenda on others that you MUST respond to.

Be alert to those who insist their agenda MUST be addressed. You will find that regardless of what you say or how you respond, it will never be good enough to satisfy their need to make themselves right and you wrong. That's one element of battering. Be alert to those who insist you must address their agenda but never acknowledge your point of view or concerns.

There is no way anyone can please a batterer. They will always find reasons why you're wrong, or don't get it, or why you must address their concerns. As I demonstrated yesterday, even when you logically deconstruct their reasoning and refute their supposed "proofs" that you are wrong, to blame, etc., they will consistently refuse to address what you've said, and will throw more accusations and demands that they expect you to answer to their satisfaction. And of course they're never satisfied.

This is what I've termed the "spaghetti thrown against the wall to see what sticks" tactic. A classic technique of verbal and physical batterers is to raise "concerns" about your behavior, reasoning, or view, and then when you attempt to address their "concerns," they throw more and more at you without ever acknowledging your response to the original concerns.

The technique of constantly raising more and more concerns, even if they're wildly off topic or irrelevant to the initial point, is critical in their strategy. Eventually they hope to bury you in their BS, even while insisting all the way that you MUST address their concerns or you're lying, or scamming, or not knowledgeable, or smart, or whatever.

Then there's the challenge or taunt. Be alert to this, since it's a classic way of pulling you away from your own knowledge and sense of what's relevant or important to you. It's a technique to pull you into their agenda.

A batterer will always challenge the would-be victim to "prove" whatever is the concern of the moment to their satisfaction. That often takes the form of something you are expected to learn and talk about which is only marginally related to the initial concern, if at all. And their "authorities" are always more legitimate than yours.

A batterer loves to keep everything hectic, chaotic, and off balance. They usually evade simple reasoning, since they love to hide their tactics to create chaos or confusion behind phrases such as "it's so simple, why don't you get it," or "I've tried to make it clear, but you aren't comprehending," or some other similar accusation that puts it on you to prove to them that you ARE "getting it" to their satisfaction. And they will insist that it's for your own good.

I found a lot of this when I was a fairly well-known political blogger earlier in this decade. That's when I learned the phrase "don't feed the troll." It does absolutely no good to attempt a dialog with someone who is not an honest communicator.

You will recognize these denizens of one of the lower circles of hell by examining their attitude and how they respond to your response. That's why I gave yesterday's troll the benefit of two responses, but by the third I saw he was an utterly dishonest manipulator with a very nasty attitude. (After I de-published all comments related to the conflict and banned him, he sent me a 4th response which ended up in the spam file. It was just as evasive, accusative, and nasty as his previous 3. So much for thinking they ever learn.)

I found some time ago that it makes absolutely no difference if you have expertise in an area and they don't. It makes no difference if you have formal knowledge or training in a field. They will NEVER acknowledge that you have any right to your point of view, and will usually get nasty pretty quick, throwing more accusations, demands for "proof" and explanations, but ignore whatever you say, often twisting your own words to their satisfaction to "prove" you are a lesser being, or not very aware or knowledgeable.

Apart from what I've learned through hard personal experience over the years, some time back I also learned another way to recognize batterers through a book written by one of the foremost experts in the field, Dr. Lenore Walker, in her pioneering work "The Battered Woman." In it she outlines the timing and techniques batterers use in what she termed "the cycle of violence."

Basically, there are 3 stages. One is the tension-building period, where the batterer expects something of you that may or may not be clear, but you cannot please them. This usually involves "minor" forms of abuse (like yesterday.) The second stage is when the abuse and battering erupts in one acute form or another. The third stage is the "honeymoon" period, when the batterer "makes up" and promises whatever in an attempt to sooth the troubled waters.

Stage 3 may last a relatively long or short time, but given the nature of abusive people, it's usually short, since they always find something else "wrong" with you, after which the cycle begins anew. Tension again builds, eventually culminating in abusive words and/or deeds, followed by another make-up period. The make-up period gives the batterer time to feel good about how nice they're being to their victim, so they can justify the next bout of tension and abuse.

Think "See how good I've been to you," "See what I did for you," or "I've tried so hard to help you understand" with the obvious follow up of "and you aren't appreciative" or "and you aren't reciprocating" or "and you're not getting it...." which of course is their justification for the next period of tension building for what you are or are not doing or understanding about their wants and needs.

There are many more elements of battering behavior, but they are beyond the scope of this article. I just had some insights into yesterday, and wanted to share them in a way that all who read this might recognize trollish behavior and the abusive attitudes and actions that lurk behind the apparently reasonable facades of these denizens of lower awareness.

I'll close with a fragment of wisdom from Cat Stevens: "Hope you make a lot of nice friends out there But just remember there's a lot of bad and beware..."

To all those who commune here, my blessings. May you recognize batterers and never tolerate any form of abuse ever again.

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PeaceAngel
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Posts: 3518
From: peace.angel@live.com.au
Registered: Apr 2009

posted January 16, 2010 02:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PeaceAngel     Edit/Delete Message
Interesting reading ViG.

This stood out for me:

quote:
You will find that regardless of what you say or how you respond, it will never be good enough to satisfy their need to make themselves right and you wrong.

Exactly!

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PeaceAngel
Moderator

Posts: 3518
From: peace.angel@live.com.au
Registered: Apr 2009

posted January 16, 2010 02:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PeaceAngel     Edit/Delete Message
songwriter

I'm just checking with Randall how to go about the username change for you. Will get back to you as soon as I know.

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DD
Knowflake

Posts: 2871
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted January 16, 2010 05:58 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DD     Edit/Delete Message
I donīt think Polo is gone.
I think he likes the attention he is getting here. And the more we discuss with him and try to reason with him, the more he feels confirmed in his opinion.
No matter what we say (unless we fall at his feet and worship everything that drops out of his mouth), will be just a proof to him that he is far superior to us.
Discussing with him is a waste of time, as he is not interested in discussions with an equal partner, but only wants to present himself and be seen as some kind of Guru.
If you read all the things he wrote (I don`t advise you to do so), you will find that he didn`t ask a genuine question once. Every question he asked was being asked in a "Socratic" way, meant to either trick people into a fruitless discussion with him or teach them the truth, to which only he has access.

So coming here has only advantages for him ( apologize if the word "advantage" is not rightly used in this context):
Either he can teach us spiritual truth, which confirms his opinion of being superior and wise,
or we appear as being completely unable to understand his way of thinking (in his opinion), which confirms his opinion of being superior and wise.

So, as long as we get into a discussion with him, he can only gain something positive from it.
Actually I think the only way to treat him (for me that is - everyone has to decide for themselves) is to not discuss anything with him, unless he stops disrespecting and patronizing other people.

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PeaceAngel
Moderator

Posts: 3518
From: peace.angel@live.com.au
Registered: Apr 2009

posted January 16, 2010 06:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PeaceAngel     Edit/Delete Message
songwriter

Re-register with the new name.

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songwriter
Knowflake

Posts: 319
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted January 16, 2010 04:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for songwriter     Edit/Delete Message
PeaceAngel,

I just tried to re-register with the new name, and I still get the same message.

"Someone else has already registered that email adress"

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vapor-lash
Knowflake

Posts: 625
From:
Registered: Nov 2009

posted January 16, 2010 04:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for vapor-lash     Edit/Delete Message
Song - I think you should get another email address. That would be easiest. It takes a couple of minutes.
http://home.live.com

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Deux*Antares
Knowflake

Posts: 738
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted January 17, 2010 12:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Deux*Antares     Edit/Delete Message
Songwriter,

Go to your LL profile and change your email address. And then register a new name using your old address. I hope it works.

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songwriter
Knowflake

Posts: 319
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted January 17, 2010 10:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for songwriter     Edit/Delete Message
PeaceAngel, thanks.

Vapor-lash, yes I know it would be easier, but I don't want have more than one e-mail.

DeuxAntares, brilliant idea!! .. And it works

Thank you guys!

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PeaceAngel
Moderator

Posts: 3518
From: peace.angel@live.com.au
Registered: Apr 2009

posted January 17, 2010 10:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PeaceAngel     Edit/Delete Message
What's your new username, (ex)songwriter?

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songwriter
Knowflake

Posts: 319
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted January 17, 2010 01:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for songwriter     Edit/Delete Message
I changed it to "LeoSoul", PeaceAngel.

I will inform everyone about the change once it's approved.

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katatonic
Knowflake

Posts: 2881
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted January 17, 2010 08:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message
LARA DID YOU REALLY SAY THIS?

"yes although i've ended it for good at the moment"...? intentional or slip?

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katatonic
Knowflake

Posts: 2881
From:
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posted January 17, 2010 08:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message
well THAT was a slip!

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Winged Leo
Knowflake

Posts: 1
From:
Registered: Jan 2010

posted January 20, 2010 03:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Winged Leo     Edit/Delete Message
Test post successful!

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