posted December 24, 2010 06:22 PM            

This is 3 years in the progress, and its my best friend. Sure we've had little harmless flings (kissing and whatnot) over the years, and wound up seeing other people. Ultimately we didn't want to ruin our friendship, though she knows I love her quite deeply on many levels.

Until recently. Inebriation, we stumbled into the bedroom and, well you know. It was phenomenal. Though now I'm left wondering what should I do now? I'm not chasing her, but I'm not so sure she'll come to me, due to her flighty nature. Sighhhh

posted December 24, 2010 09:17 PM            

I have seen the negatives but I'm like a moth drawn to the flame. I just can't be with another Leo again ughhhh. lol

posted December 24, 2010 09:44 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Randall:
Welcome!

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posted December 25, 2010 02:17 AM            

Don't worry about screwing up your friendship. That's, well, in my mind (& in a Sag's) a great basis for a relationship. If you think there is potential for a relationship how can you not explore it? And if you don't, you'll just keep pining away.

She will not come to you if you hope & wait. Romance her. Don't put up with flightiness or flirtations either. My experience with Sag's is that you have to be firm about what you want in a relationship with them. They need that in a partner. It may be a test to see how serious you are because when they fall for you, they fall hard.

posted December 26, 2010 07:17 PM            

But whenever I have figured out that somebody was really into me, if I felt the same way, they had no doubts about it, because I would pursue them 100%.

posted December 27, 2010 05:19 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Steam:
Since you are already friends & assuming she finds you attractive, you will need to be direct. Ask her out.

Don't worry about screwing up your friendship. That's, well, in my mind (& in a Sag's) a great basis for a relationship. If you think there is potential for a relationship how can you not explore it? And if you don't, you'll just keep pining away.

She will not come to you if you hope & wait. Romance her. Don't put up with flightiness or flirtations either. My experience with Sag's is that you have to be firm about what you want in a relationship with them. They need that in a partner. It may be a test to see how serious you are because when they fall for you, they fall hard.

Good luck!

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You hit the nail on the head. Can't say the same for Lyra (since she obviously has a bias against Saggies- we do have a lot underneath the layers, we just don't show it to people that we feel are not worthy of seeing our vulnurable side).

Saggies have the ability to move on, recognize the issues and make sure not to make that mistake again (even if we do end up in an icky relationship, they usually don't have the same hangups that the previous relationship had).

A Saggie can also move from friendship to relationship but it is harder when that relationship doesn't work out. The Saggie will be honest with you and ask for the relationship to go back to friendship, but can you handle that? I have not really moved friendships to the relationship territory because I was not attracted to my male friends in that way. I only saw them as friends not potential lovers. If they could not see being only friends, then we would part ways.

If your Sag has kissed you and has even gone so far as to sleep with you, then there may be something there that you can both expand on, but you will need to do what Steam said. Romance her, let her know how you feel without being clingy. Be firm but not obnoxious. She will reward you with honesty and if it works out and you treat her right (and don't let her get away with being flippant but try and understand the crazy sense of humor) you will have a very loyal and loving partner (and friend).

posted December 28, 2010 10:53 AM            

Do they want someone or don't they? This could read "do they want KIDS or don't they"? Sadges need to learn that kids are kids and not just there as a potential vessel to be filled up with learning and education, but dynamic little INDIVIDUAL creatures in their own right. And a kid's needs don't just begin and end with learning. There's the mundane stuff like cooking, washing and taking care of the kid (and the partner) and giving it true UNDERSTANDING and emotional SUPPORT (which does not necessarily mean the textbook variety) and true LOVE (emotional love, not love which semi-springs from the mind). Sadges seem to "love" with half their brain only, it's most odd, it's like they won't let anyone get close to them. Although they need you to be there for them in times of trouble (and especially if you are Pisces-heavy and sympathetic), when you need help you will feel as though you have fallen on stony ground. But again, this could be more true of Sadges with Venus in Scorpio.

As parents they are over-disciplinarian/ controlling and the kids end up either nervous wrecks (after invariably trying to live up to their impossible demands and getting nowhere), or cutting all ties. They are in danger of repeating patterns in their own upbringing and need to confront their parenting style to ensure that it remains healthy - and not always assume they are right, but look to change things that aren't working - being a parent, not just a teacher. After years of trying to make my Sadge mother have some sense of family I have finally given up - my Aries father with a Sadge moon didn't have much of a sense of family either for a while, but seems to be gradually getting better (Aries work better as family members).

To the POSITIVE stuff: I will say that they work very hard and especially the women tend to study a lot, are almost invariably found in professions such as law and medicine (it's true!), and the younger generation are quite often found propping their menfolk up. Yes I agree they are emotional, and quite reckless in love sometimes, and can get very hurt. They have a naivety about them (a childlike-ness in their love and a warming to cuddly and cute things like children and animals) which I have to say is very appealing to many. I am not wired that way at all and despite myself (yes, I know this is very, very wrong of me) I see it as weak, because I see how they can get taken advantage of through others manipulating their emotions. So, no, I don't think Sadgis are all bad, objectively speaking, but there is a part of me that finds it very difficult to relate to them.

posted December 28, 2010 01:37 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Lyra:
BearsArcher, perhaps I was being a little unfair. Yes I agree Sadgis have a lot of onion layers. However they communicate them in a way which is usually very confusing to the rest of us. They kind of follow the beat of their own drummer and I'm not so sure about their logic. In Scorpio, the sign before, you get logic mixed with emotion, which equals conclusion. I can handle that. What you see is what you get. But with the Archer you have an added dimension of infinite possibility, and the toys all get flung out of the pen, and most people don't know whether they're coming or going. For this reason I find them seriously confusing.

My anti-Sadge bias, if you like, comes from experience - that experience being of wanting VERY VERY much to love and be friends with them (simply because I liked them, plain and simple) and most of all have FAMILY connections - and being constantly rebuffed - being given the idea that you're not "cool" enough for them, an "embarrassment" (?!) or that you're not needed. If they feel that you are "not needed" or you do not fit in with their plans, they are the worst manipulators on earth and will attempt to destroy you socially (but perhaps this is more true for Venus in Scorp Sadges). I don't know what their definition of love is.

Do they want someone or don't they? This could read "do they want KIDS or don't they"? Sadges need to learn that kids are kids and not just there as a potential vessel to be filled up with learning and education, but dynamic little INDIVIDUAL creatures in their own right. And a kid's needs don't just begin and end with learning. There's the mundane stuff like cooking, washing and taking care of the kid (and the partner) and giving it true UNDERSTANDING and emotional SUPPORT (which does not necessarily mean the textbook variety) and true LOVE (emotional love, not love which semi-springs from the mind). Sadges seem to "love" with half their brain only, it's most odd, it's like they won't let anyone get close to them. Although they need you to be there for them in times of trouble (and especially if you are Pisces-heavy and sympathetic), when you need help you will feel as though you have fallen on stony ground. But again, this could be more true of Sadges with Venus in Scorpio.

As parents they are over-disciplinarian/ controlling and the kids end up either nervous wrecks (after invariably trying to live up to their impossible demands and getting nowhere), or cutting all ties. They are in danger of repeating patterns in their own upbringing and need to confront their parenting style to ensure that it remains healthy - and not always assume they are right, but look to change things that aren't working - being a parent, not just a teacher. After years of trying to make my Sadge mother have some sense of family I have finally given up - my Aries father with a Sadge moon didn't have much of a sense of family either for a while, but seems to be gradually getting better (Aries work better as family members).

To the POSITIVE stuff: I will say that they work very hard and especially the women tend to study a lot, are almost invariably found in professions such as law and medicine (it's true!), and the younger generation are quite often found propping their menfolk up. Yes I agree they are emotional, and quite reckless in love sometimes, and can get very hurt. They have a naivety about them (a childlike-ness in their love and a warming to cuddly and cute things like children and animals) which I have to say is very appealing to many. I am not wired that way at all and despite myself (yes, I know this is very, very wrong of me) I see it as weak, because I see how they can get taken advantage of through others manipulating their emotions. So, no, I don't think Sadgis are all bad, objectively speaking, but there is a part of me that finds it very difficult to relate to them.

Like I said I haven't come across many Sadge males and when I have I haven't got particularly close to them. They seem to be quite positive and breezy and actually quite sensible, and there is one who I've potentially got a lot of time for right now - problem is he's attached, so since I am not desperate (I am extremely busy, and also fairly stoical since breaking up with Mr. Scorpio), I am accepting of the situation and feel that the best thing I can do is to develop the friendship very gradually (I am totally fascinated with him, I feel a kind of reciprocal warmth, I find him quite simply wonderful and an interesting guy), do my bit in the social group we both attend (no more and no less), look nice, and above all be myself. Just accept it for what it is, a crush, and keep my options open!!!

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Wow.. I totally see where you are coming from- seriously. I watched my brother (he is a wonderful Saggie and teacher) do just what you said with his oldest boy. He wanted him to learn everything but didn't seem to take the time to really know my nephew. Luckily, we have a Cancer mom and Capricorn dad plus me (I have always said never take us Saggies seriously until we have hit our late 20's and sometimes even older since most of our common sense has been stored in our horselike hindquarters).

My bro is the typical Sag male; he loves sports, hunting, fishing, hiking, and traveling. He hates being tied down and before having children he never had to worry about taking off at a moments notice- heck he never even had a fish for a pet. I'm more of the settled down type, if that is even possible- it could be because I have a 4th house Sun and I like my home and I love my furbabies (two of which have lived and traveled with me for 14 years LOL.. and now we have another 2 year old kitty we adopted in Germany and a 10 month old Labrador). I am more touchy feeling than my brother even though he can be more sensitive than I am (he has a Scorp moon). I love kids and how they express themselves and believe they need to be loved, hugged, snuggled and given the right to be who they are without projecting onto them. It took my brother years to realize my oldest nephew wasn't going to be Mr. Sports like he is, instead Lance is very cerebral like me.

I DO think we are confusing. For many years people thought I was just so happy go lucky and I was even discounted while in college (my major was Bio/ Chem) and told by my mentor that I needed to spend more time with fellow scientists and less time with the business majors. I thought my peers were boring and I liked to party with the biz peeps. When I graduated he called me a clutch player, because he said I come through when I need to. He was right and as I got older I took on more and more responsibility. He was suprised when we e-mailed later (about 8 years after graduating) and he found out I was a Sr. Research Associate at a biotech company on the east coast. LOL.. But his words always stuck with me.

Logically, we process things so quickly that it can also come off as intuitive, which we kind of are but it is more that we see things or patterns in a rapid manner and then act on them. It can throw people for a loop since we don't often come off as being dedicated to certain things.

As to the manipulation- I've seen that but I don't do that because I believe that what we do to others will come back to us. Also, I have been the brunt of manipulations and it hurts to be cast aside or used. I never want to make others feel that way but I am sure in my younger years I was not so kind. In fact, my brutal honesty hurt many of people growing up because I told them the way I saw things or showed them their faults while not really seeing my own.

Being needed IS very important and I also learned that the hard way. I am so very independent that I often do things myself or before even my husband can help me. It frustrates him but I spent so many years on my own that it just came natural to me. Then I saw the hurt on his face and realized that you have to be strong enough to know when others are there for you and that they want to help you. I think many Saggies were brought up taking care of themselves (I have an Aries Moon-which says a lot about my mom). Speaking of moms- I love my mom but she wasn't really the "hands on" kind of person. My brother and I learned to do so many things on our own.

I have found that with my family I am the one that is always there, the stable force. My mother always acts as the "damsel in distress" and I have had to drop everything to fly out to see her or move her from one state to another. That was a horrible time. I flew in from Maryland to Nevada around 9pm and then had to finish packing her up, loading the car and then drive up to Idaho. But that is also my family duty (it could also be cultural because family is very important- something that has always been instilled in me by my Cappy dad). I am very close to my family and adore my nephews but I have often said, if I was not related to my mom I don't think I would be friends with her (our personalities don't always mesh well) but I would be friends with my father.

I often say "now that I am older" and it is true, Saggies mature later than most signs because of our weird ways. I support my husband 100% and have left jobs in order to be with him in Germany and back to the US. It is a small price to pay for love and I have no regrets. He has taught me how to settle down and enjoy the little things in life that my normal nature would fly right by because I was always juggling 10 things at once.

I feel for you having a Sag mom because they / we can be terrors and yes, critical, because we don't always understand why people can't process things as quickly. I even look at my patient Leo husband and wonder why it takes him so long to make a decision or statment. I won't even get into how frustrating it was with my Virgo ex husband LOL...

I also think that the feeling of being "on the outside" with us comes from the times we have been hurt before. Saggies are often open and vulnerable as youngsters and then we find out the hard way that people take advantage of that and we end up getting hurt. Being merry and galloping along the path is easier for us because then we aren't allowing ourselves to slow down and feel the pain of rejection- which is inevitible because of our brutal honesty and lack of tact.

Thank you for explaining where you are coming from. Nothing can beat out experiences and how we see / feel things. Because of my experience with a Cancer Sun / Moon mom I sometimes have issues with Cancer women (and men). My mom often reminds my brother and I that she wanted children so that she would have constant love. She was upset because of our independent nature then again, a Cancer woman with two Sag kids deserves a medal LOL..

posted December 28, 2010 03:08 PM            

When I was reading your (the part before the positive stuff) I felt like I was reading exactly how I would describe an aqua. Or at least the aquas in my life. I mean to a 'T'. Especially the part about not being cool enough and so forth.

posted December 28, 2010 07:48 PM            

The negative things I have noticed. SO unreliable, making plans is like pulling teeth! Of course me being a libra, I'd rather keep things cool than feel like I'm guilt triping her into doing something.
Then in regards to her last boyfriend, she really was cruel and vindictive. I mean, she'd totally tear him to pieces while he wasn't there, then when no-one was looking, she'd run over to his place.
I kind of wonder if she's done that with me?
Though he was a pretty big dirt-ball and did honestly deserve a lot of it.

posted December 28, 2010 08:33 PM            

GypseeWind, I'd say that Aquas definetely ARE family-minded. There are similarities, but Aquas are a lot more icy (think more Saturnine). They are, after all, born in the middle of winter! Very opinionated and conservative and not at all shy about showing it.

posted December 28, 2010 10:39 PM            

RE: family. Have to agree with you there. Linda Goodman says alot of saggies leave home early and don't look back. True for me. I love my family, but I don't feel the need to speak with them daily, weekly, or even monthly. Why? because I'm grown now and I have my own family. Now THAT family (as in my 3 kids) I want around me ALL the time, so maybe a difference there. I am an 8th house sun as well, btw..

I was married to an Aries, it was a complete disaster. I have alot of Aries girlfriends though, and the three friends that I've had the LONGEST, as in since junior high school, are all Aries girls. Aries is my asc, so that may have something to do with it.

Personally I've never fancied another sag guy. I love the women though~ just adore them!
There have been sag guys that I've found attractive and started talking to, and it seems like we always end up as just friends.
Sadges spill alot in the first few meet ups, and I like a mystery. So, maybe that is why.

posted December 29, 2010 05:21 AM            

Our family is quite Aries and Sadgi heavy (with Cancer and Pisces coming a close second) and the individuals from BOTH signs have a reputation for being emotional and throwing tantrums - but in a different way (with Sadgi probably being more vocal) - neither in any less self-centred a way though

Taking a closer look at mine and Mr S's charts and it looks like we have several VEEERY strong aspects - as in trines, squares, oppositions all in very tight orbs of each other (big trine going on in Fire signs, as he has possibly the most Fiery chart of anyone I've come across). So kind of very challenging, and very good, all at the same time.

posted December 31, 2010 05:57 PM            

I wish you lots of luck you loving Libra you!

Happy New Year,