posted February 04, 2011 12:26 PM            

To me the age of consent, and issues about adults dating teens or children is at the core of this discussion topic, not off topic.

Like I said, the *spirit* of the law is that even if the older party is holding off on having sex with or fondling the 14-year-old, the atmosphere and nature of the relationship may be too adult/inapproprite for his growth and he is too young to realize that now or decide for himself. I would personally be happy to have my teen date, if I had a teen, but not okay with him/her dating an adult 5 years older until he/she was over 18.

Re: the letter of the law, in most states, now that I'm looking into it, sexual intercourse with minor between 12 and age of consent, if the older person is 3+ years older, is classified as "statutory rape" or "rape"; kissing or fondling for either party's arousal is "sexual abuse." The pentalies increase in some states with an increased age gap.

18 may be the age of consent, but I do think when a 40-something-year-old or 53-year-old gets involved with a 19-year-old, there's something questionable about the situation, and chances are that the younger party is struggling with the legacy of abuse in the family, and that he/she might feel different about the relationship later. In my experience interviewing people, most adults are making solid, safe choices after age 30...adults in their teens and twenties are still very vulnerable. That doesn't mean that a 20-year-old isn't in a position to make his/her own romantic choices. It's just that I see it a LOT where a teen or young adult will think an age gap relationship is a good thing, and feel very different about it later.

I do think that kind of relationship can be a sign of psychological problems in the case of the teen/very young adult and the older person...and I think that does change when everyone's over 25 or 30. I'm not sure why, just from experience talking to people about their relationships. People who have been adults living adult lives for longer seem to make solider decisions about their romantic lives, and I think at that point an age gap can work.

posted February 04, 2011 01:31 PM            

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Originally posted by Lucia23:
But Kat, what if someone who was 17 wanted to date your 11-year-old?

Would you feel just as comfortable if the woman dating your 16.5 year old was 57, not 21?

At a certain point, "age gap" becomes pedophilia. The problem is that no one can agree on that point. Even people who are all--"It's all about the soul, age is nothing but a number" often have a certain point where they get skeeved out.

When I was a teen, most of the guys I was attracted to were in their twenties. Now that I'm in my mid-thirties, most of the guys I'm attracted to are in their twenties. I don't know that the age of men I'm attracted to will necessarily change as I get older.

There's controversy about when people are old enough to decide who to date, without interference from their parents or the law. No one would think a 61-year-old dating a 55 year old was a problem. Some people would think a 21-year-old dating a 16 year old was a problem, it's illegal in some states, I think. LOTS of people would think a 17-year-old "dating" an eleven-year old was just plain old sexual abuse.

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Lucia...I absolutely agree with you...and if I had 'known' about the age difference, before meeting her, I would have hit the roof...that is why they hid it for months..lol I found out after I had met her a few times, I never would have know had I not been told...of course that is why I didn't find out right away, because their synastry shows it was destined on a very spiritual level..
I do feel however, that once someone is of legal age, it becomes their choice...I do have a friend of 35 years, who dated a man who is 25 years her senior, they dated for years, then were married, and now have been together for 30 years...so you just never know..

Kat

posted February 04, 2011 05:30 PM            

Kat, it makes more sense knowing that you weren't aware of the age gap when it started...also, that the age gap doesn't show. I know it must be very different dealing with these issues as a parent in real life, rather than theoretically!

If when I was nineteen or twenty I'd felt a deep and powerful connection to a fourteen-year-old boy, I would probably not have acted on it, even if what I felt was very strong. I think I would've found my own feelings worrying and questionable.

posted February 04, 2011 05:37 PM            

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But all that matters is that the two people in the relationship are happy. FTW!

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I do disagree. Sometimes a fourteen-year-old feels happy to be hooking up with a twenty-five-year-old crush, or a twenty-one-year-old college student feels happy to cut classes to experiment with hard drugs, or a sixteen-year-old wants to not go to school, or a 58-year-old professor feels happy to have sex with 21-year-olds he meets at the local bar, or a thief enjoys spending money he stole.

Sometimes people make decisions that are shaped from growing up in damaging circumstances, and choose to do things that are unhealthy or harmful for them. Or others!

posted February 04, 2011 05:45 PM            

To the original poster: I think one useful thing to do is ask yourself whether you're struggling with any issues about your father or father figures. Were you treated violently, sexualized early, abandoned or neglected by any adult men whose care you were in as a kid?

If so, this might be a hint that you are ready in your life to address and heal from those issues.

posted February 04, 2011 08:06 PM            

I do not have any father problems or anything... I actually meant to pop that in this thread somewhere b/c it's obviously a plausible reason as to why I would be drawn to an older man.

This man is close to 50 yrs. old, he isn't rich and he isn't good-looking. I wish we could be just friends, buds... but he keeps telling me that he's in love with me. We have not been physical in any way. Actually (lol) I don't even let him hug me because I think even that's too intimate. I posted this because I think the "age gap" topic is interesting, yes, in both directions, of any genders, with any people.

I just know that there's more there than just friendship at hand. I am telling you; if this man and I were the same age (approximately) I would be head over heels in love. I wouldn't be able to get my head out of the gutter! And that's because of the chemistry between us. But I literally feel like there's this blockage, I am messed up over the age difference. If anything the most honest thing I can say is that he reminds me too much of my Dad, and that's crossing some boundary.

posted February 04, 2011 08:58 PM            

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Originally posted by Randall:
Lucia, you make comparisons on my behalf where there are none. I am not talking about drugs or stealing or underage issues. I am talking about two consenting adults in a romantic relationship--whether an age gap, race difference, or same sex. In those three scenarios, as long as both parties are happy, that IS what matters. It doesn't matter what armchair psychologists (who have high suicide rates) say or what nosey busybodies whisper in ears as they stare at such couples (who are often in loveless marriages themselves). You have every right to disagree, and you may think that only people of the same exact age can truly be happy, but with all of the dysfunctional toxic relationships in the world, I say to grab happiness where you can get it (in an adult consentual context only, of course). How do you define a healthy relationship but by the happiness that it creates? That is the only true measure. And I would say that also applies to a very tall man with a very short woman, a woman much taller than the man, a large person and a skinny person, or any other combination that appear outside of the norm. But as I told Oranges in my first responses to her, society reacts very strongly against age gaps, even when it's none of their business, thus making said relationships very difficult. People worship numbers. Society is obsessed with age.

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quote:

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How do you define a healthy relationship but by the happiness that it creates? That is the only true measure.

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posted February 04, 2011 10:01 PM            

VERY often sexually abused kids and teens feel a closeness to the perpetrator, and feel "happy" about the relationship at the time. Then later, they see it in a different light. That's why the laws can be helpful--14 (for example) is too young to "consent" to being kissed or fondled by a grown-up.

So people being "happy" in a relationship can be a complicated issue, even between consenting adults--some people (mostly victims of family violence themselves as kids) feel very attached to a violent relationship, as one example, and will not press charges when their partner beats them bloody and beats their kids. Some of these people will describe the relationship as "happy."

Sometimes sexual abuse victims feel terrible shame later, because the abuse felt good physically at the time and they felt great love for the adult who was being sexual with them, so when they realize something wrong was happening, it harms them enormously.

Randall: I never thought Oranges was talking about an illegal/underage relationship. What I meant was that the general subject invited discussion of all kinds of age-gap relationships. At what point would you think someone was a crappy mother for failing to break up and/or report an illegal relationship between her kid and a grown up? If the kid was 13? 12? 11? Or maybe there's no point when you would think that.

Would you just say, "Oh, her son hooked up with his girlfriend when they were 9 and 28, but they're happy Soul Mates now and, even though their relationship is still illegal in many states, I'm convinced she's a wonderful mother?" Isn't there a certain point when letting an adult fool around with your teen or child is a sign of lousy parenting? I'm not saying Kat has crossed that line morally, I haven't made up my mind, but she's crossed it and still crossing it legally. And I like that there's a line, I agree there should be one!

Oranges: It sounds like your idea to explore a friendship and see how things feel with this guy you're very drawn to is a great choice. It sounds like you are in touch with yourself and listening to your intuition as things progress, and that's really important.

Anyway, I said I was getting off this thread! But I came back! Sorry! But I really am going to get off of it, because it's making me mad, and thankfully, state laws now reflect my concerns.