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Author Topic:   Orchus Conjunct the NN in Yours Truly's Chart
Ami Anne
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From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010

posted November 16, 2011 11:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I wanted to make a separate thread to explore Orchus and Orchus conjunct the NN, in this case.

If anyone knows about Orchus, please post your info.If you have had personal dealings with Orchus, please post about it. I know this is an asteroid, but I am trying to fit this asteroid in to a personal reading, so I put the thread in PR.

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Ami Anne
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From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
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posted November 17, 2011 01:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
From IQ:


Hi Ami,
Orcus represents the Energy akin to the Will Power of Pluto in choosing to act. If the choice of action is humanistic/transformational, Orcus will be at its best.

Plenty of scope for Heroism, higher level than Osiris in the chart but will need plentiful increase in evolutionary consciousness to find the power of Orcus in our charts.

Examples:
The Sun is the Light of our Chart, so Sun conjunct Orcus indicates a person who will be thoroughly illuminated about his deepest resolve, deepest Will Power to act against all odds.

NN represents the best way to attain Self Actualization by obliterating old karmic debts. NN conjunct Orcus will be the degree that represents the deepest psychological reserve of Will Power that will help us obliterate karmic debts and evolve.
If you have seen movies like "Rocky 3", Orcus helps the protagonist get up and win after 9 counts out of 10, when he is trying to win for a higher cause of his Self, for exorcising his fear of defeat.

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Ami Anne
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From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
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posted November 17, 2011 01:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I can SEE you having Orchus conjunct the NN, now. I think you are a very powerful person, Ian.

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Ami Anne
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From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
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posted November 17, 2011 02:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
IQ can make the asteroids understandable. They are of no use if they are just a bunch of words.


So, Orchus is Rocky getting up when he is down on the mat, bruised and beaten. Actually, that IS you, from your childhood and the loss of your son. You push on and on, for good. That is amazing, isn't it?

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YoursTrulyAlways
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posted November 17, 2011 04:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for YoursTrulyAlways     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Ami,

Its much clearer to me now.

Actually it was the loss of a daughter, and then the loss of another 2nd trimester child in utero of undetermined sex.

It was also my son being born extremely sick and remaining chronically ill, and my wife giving him her right kidney, and me giving him my right kidney and a liver lobe in a couple of years.

Its also a personal bankruptcy and liquidation of a home to pay for my son's TV-drama-like first two years of his life, even with medical insurance. I was commuting from NYC to SF every weekend!

It was also the loss of six jobs due to lay offs.

Anyway, I'm a stuboorn and rebellious SOB. If I were part of Occupy Wall Street, I would be in jail very quickly lol

Everytime I have met adversity, my spirit of fighting back just gets stronger. Life has given me a couple of big whacks in my gut, but I force myself to get up and continue the fight each day.

Yes, I know Rocky Balboa. I prefer the analogy of David against big bad Goliath.

Thank you, Ami

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Ami Anne
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From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
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posted November 18, 2011 02:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Aw, you warm my heart so much, Ian. Thank you for the love you give me. Yes, I want to research Orchus. I did not know about your son and your giving him your kidney. I did not know of the loss of the baby in utero.

Even your youth, going away to Boarding school at 14, your father and so many other things you have overcome. Orchus is a mighty guy!

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Ami Anne
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posted November 18, 2011 04:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
See if you can research orchus and put simple articles on here. Forget it, if they are too abstruse. I can't deal with that

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Ami Anne
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posted November 18, 2011 07:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Orcus (provisional name 2004 DW, catalogue number 90482), another Plutino, was discovered in 2004, and has a 248 year orbit -- quite close to Pluto's. While this is an underworld god, not specifically a sea-god, it is the namesake of orca whales, sometimes called killer whales (who tend to be friendly to humans), so I'm including it. Orca whales despite their name are friendly to humans, but they are in a serious fight for survival. They are, by the way, practically the subject of a massive folk religion in the Seattle and Vancouver areas, where they are revered.

Sedgwick proposes that this planet can symbolize "a person of one's word, [one who] challenges broken promises, is aligned with a spiritual creed, [and is] accountable for personal thought, word and deed." On the more difficult side, he suggests, "hypocritical, fault finding in the ways of others, blame assigning, ducks responsibility for word and actions, unable to keep promises."

Francesco Sciavinotto suggests that this planet is involved in the fight for survival. I would add that there is a feeling of the ethics that one would apply or adopt when faced with such a fight, and the psychological and emotional steps toward getting there

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Ami Anne
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posted November 18, 2011 07:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Orcus

the other god

of the underworld

Orcus discovery image
Discovery image of Orcus
(look at the centre-left part of the image)


The discovery and naming of Orcus in 2004 brings to astrology a second planet representing the Roman god of the underworld, and an enigma as difficult to discern as the underworld itself.

The February, 2004, discovery of Orcus, then known as 2004DW, was quickly overshadowed the next month by the dramatic announcement of the discovery of Sedna, and astrologers, myself included, quickly scrambled to get up to speed with Sedna, leaving 2004DW (Orcus) aside until it had a name.

Like the true god of the underworld he is, Orcus lurked in the background, giving few clues to his real nature while we were preoccupied with other things.

By early 2005, when we turned to look at Orcus, the superficial part of this new planet was clear enough.

He was discovered by the same astronomers who had discovered Quaoar and Sedna, no surprise there. The planet's name, however, belied the mystery which anything from the underworld contains.

It was easy enough to see how Orcus was named. It's orbit is the same 248-year period as Pluto's orbit, and it's just a little smaller than Pluto. So it's easy to see how the astronomers took a quick look at Roman mythology, and seeing that the Roman god of the underworld had more than one name (in fact, three names: Pluto, Orcus, and Dis Pater), they simply grabbed one of the other underworld god names, Orcus, and named their new discovery.

For the astronomers, that was the end of it, quick and tidy. However, for astrologers it was just the beginning.

Dis Pater (Latin for "wealthy father" -- think sugar daddy), Pluto, and Orcus are all names for the same Roman diety, the god of the underworld. So we have an underworld god with three distinct names. Two of those names are now assigned to two different planets which are almost the same size, and have almost the same orbital parameters.

In astrology, things like this are significant indicators of the meaning of a planet. The teaching in Western astrology is that each planet represents an energy which naturally resides inside all of us, and that each planet's energy is unique and different.

Jupiter and Venus for instance are similar energies, but have important differences, and the same can be said for the Sun and Mars in terms of astrological meanings.

Applying this same principle to Pluto and Orcus, the similarities are easy to spot, but the differences are not yet jumping out of the shadows of the underworld, as befits an underworld god.

The similarities are straightforward. Pluto represents the journey deep inside to our core, our depth, and at the most profound level to our soul. (Talk you your friendly local Scorpio about that -- hm-m-m, a friendly Scorpio? They do exist.) That is our personal underworld. Both Pluto and Orcus would have that in common, the journey to our core.
ORCUS FACTOIDS:

Discovered: Feb. 17, 2004
Named: Nov. 22, 2004
Diameter: 1600 km
Distance from Sun: 150,000,000 km
Orbit: 248 years
Compostion: rock and ice
Mass: 6.2 - 70�1020 kg
Density: 2.0? g/cm�
Surface gravity: 0.2348 - 0.5254 m/s�
Moons: none discovered yet

Where they would differ would be what one does at the core once one gets there. After several decades of observing Pluto, we now know that the Pluto experience at the core is one of death, rebirth, transformation, and regeneration.

What one does at the core with Orcus would have to be different, and here is where the mystery of the underworld presents itself, at least to me. I've been following Orcus in the charts of my clients for over a year now, and it's not altogether obvious what's going on either by natal position or by transit. Orcus is holding tight onto his secret.

So far, the most significant observation I have is that there is no dramatic observation to be made as yet. This is particularly true with transits involving Orcus. They're pretty quiet, at least amongst the people I'm seeing.

Now I do not pretend to say my clients are a representative cross-section of society. They are not. The majority of society, the clueless cement heads, don't bother with me (thankfully). But it appears that for the spiritual seekers, who are my clients, Orcus is pretty low-key so far.

The heart-wrenching drama which is often associated with Pluto transits and natal placements isn't showing so far with Orcus in these evolved folk.

Perhaps some of the rest of the underworld god myth is at work here. For instance, one theory I've been seriously exploring is that Orcus, when handled constructively, governs accessing and bringing forward the spiritual wealth from the core of one's being. That isn't necessarily dramatic but it is profound. And it is not inconsistent with the charts I've seen over the past year or so.

But we're still in early days here with this planet. It took us decades to figure out Pluto, so perhaps patience is required for Orcus as well. Join in the discussion about Orcus at this website's New Planet Forum.

Moving along, Orcus is equally enigmatic in mundane astrology, the astrology of world events and human evolution.

We only have 1,500 years of ephemerides for both Pluto and Orcus (Click here for your free Orcus ephemeris), but a unique pattern is visible for the relative geocentric positions of Orcus and Pluto, a pattern which simply does not exist in the traditional 10-planet world we knew in the 20th Century.

For the period of 600 CE to 2100 CE Orcus and Pluto never get closer to each other than approximately 51° (a septile), and never get further away from each other than approximately 150° (a quincunx). Through a cycle of about 248 years (their orbital cycle around the Sun), these planets approach each other and then back off, but never conjuct or oppose one another in the geocentric ephemerides available.

This slow forward and back relative movement reminds me of a the 18th Century dance, the minuet. So our gods of the underworld dance a stately minuet over the centuries.

In astrology, nothing is chance. Everything is for a reason, but I hesitate to jump into this minuet with a theoretical meaning in mundane astrology for a couple of reasons.

First, the ephemerides we do have suggest there may be a longer cycle, perhaps 40,000 to 45,000 years long at work for these two planets, and we just don't have that kind of long-term ephemeris available for *any* planet.

Secondly, given that Orcus is not flashing his meaning in neon lights for all to see in a natal chart, I am prepared to be patient in mundane astrology.

Thirdly, there are several other new planets which have been discovered, but not named, and there are still further planets which have been discovered but not announced, and likely there are significant planets still to be discovered.

It is that third reason which gives me pause. We may have as many as ten new planets by the end of this decade, and their inter-relationship(s) will greatly redefine 21st Century astrology, both natal and mundane, in ways we cannot yet imagine.

I'm prepared to wait to see what comes down the pipe. There'll be lots of time to reasemble astrology when we actually know what the planets are which we are dealing with.

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Ami Anne
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From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
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posted November 18, 2011 07:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Orchus is another name for Pluto. It is Pluto like BUT it has more of a fight for survival aspect, whereas Pluto has more of a deep change, rebirth and transformation to the core, quality.

That is my sense. Orchus is a fight for survival kind of thing, as IQ said Rocky was almost down for the count YET triumphed.

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Ami Anne
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posted November 18, 2011 07:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ian, I wrote this about you for my website


I met a man, recently, embodies Orchus. He has Orchus conjunct the North Node. The North Node chart shows our life purpose. This mans life has been a study in Orchus. Orchus forces one to survive against harsh odds. This man had such a life story. He left home at 14. He met the love of his life and they married. They lost one child , at birth, from a genetic kidney disease . He and his wife donated a kidney to another child. He is a successful banker and wants to have an orphanage for children, one day. One of my Astrology teachers said that Orchus is Rocky, down for the count. Rocky uses all his strength to stand up. Orchus forces the native of an Orchus dominant chart to do the same.

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YoursTrulyAlways
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posted November 18, 2011 11:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for YoursTrulyAlways     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ami,

That's just wonderful. Thank you so much for the joy you bring to me

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YoursTrulyAlways
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posted November 18, 2011 11:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for YoursTrulyAlways     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Its strange, but I saw that Ceridwen was doing a single card tarot reading, and anongrl10 was also commenting in the thread. The theme was "Lover's Tarot" and Ceridwen did a "Soul Mate" reading.

For me, she pulled the "Strength" card. It couldn't fit in any better with this Orcus discussion.

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