posted November 24, 2013 08:43 AM            

Aren't there exceptions to that rule, though? Like say for instance if the ASC touches an important part of my/his natal chart?

I didn't realize until after you said something, but the ASC is the exact midpoint (0'01" orb) of our North Nodes.

posted November 24, 2013 09:22 AM            

Horary speaks for itself, in its own chart. It has no correlation to what your or his natal chart look like.

posted November 24, 2013 09:37 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by LionFish:
I was worried about that..

Aren't there exceptions to that rule, though? Like say for instance if the ASC touches an important part of my/his natal chart?

I didn't realize until after you said something, but the ASC is the exact midpoint (0'01" orb) of our North Nodes.

Thanks for taking the time to look fille

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yeah there is actually, have read it too. However there is another stricture against judgement in this chart, Saturn in the 1st house.

posted November 24, 2013 09:49 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Jessica2407:
yeah there is actually, have read it too. However there is another stricture against judgement in this chart, Saturn in the 1st house.

Talk to him Lionfish, about your concerns, may be you are just stressed and not thinking straight.

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posted November 24, 2013 09:52 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Jessica2407:
yeah there is actually, have read it too. However there is another stricture against judgement in this chart, Saturn in the 1st house.

Talk to him Lionfish, about your concerns, may be you are just stressed and not thinking straight.

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posted November 24, 2013 09:54 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Jessica2407:
yeah there is actually, have read it too. However there is another stricture against judgement in this chart, Saturn in the 1st house.

Talk to him Lionfish, about your concerns, may be you are just stressed and not thinking straight.

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I'm super stressed. But every time I try to talk to him he either just shuts me out or changes the subject. I have to fight tooth and nail to get him to talk about his feelings.

I've put a few things out in the open over the past couple months that I'm unhappy about and I'm worried that he's thinking I just want to control or change who he is. And the more he shuts me out the more I wonder/worry. *sigh*

I just want answers and I feel like no matter how, where, who I ask the question of.. I get the same thing. No answer. I'm starting to feel like "no answer" IS my answer.

posted November 24, 2013 10:16 AM            

quote:

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The EXCEPTION to this rule is when a PERSONAL NATAL PLANET, including the natal ASCENDANT or MIDHEAVEN, is exactly conjunct the horary ascendant.

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As far as I know, midpoints are strong but are not planets... I don't mean to be a debbie downer here, but I believe we must adhere to some rules... does the midpoint of North Nodes equate and signify the same thing as a planet in that degree? Those who are more knowledgeable in natal astrology, please speak up and help me out here.

Also, I've never read Saturn in the first being a stricture... What I have read is that:

quote:

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If Saturn is in the 1st House (or, presumably, conjunct the Ascendent), then the matter will rarely work out as the seeker hopes, especially when Saturn is retrograde. An exception to this rule may be when Saturn's placement in the first is somehow descriptive of what's going on. Look at the chart, "Will I get the Anullment?" (in the drop-down menu below) for an example of a retrograde Saturn conjunct the Ascendant. In this case, the seeker did indeed get what he wanted: the anullment. It was, however, delayed, and Saturn often signifies delay.

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posted November 24, 2013 10:20 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by LionFish:
I'm super stressed. But every time I try to talk to him he either just shuts me out or changes the subject. I have to fight tooth and nail to get him to talk about his feelings.

I've put a few things out in the open over the past couple months that I'm unhappy about and I'm worried that he's thinking I just want to control or change who he is. And the more he shuts me out the more I wonder/worry. *sigh*

I just want answers and I feel like no matter how, where, who I ask the question of.. I get the same thing. No answer. I'm starting to feel like "no answer" IS my answer.

Thank you for having a peek, Jessica, I appreciate it.

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LionFish, have you tried writing your thoughts and feelings on paper and giving it to him? Ask him to read it when he's away from you but alone, so he can really think on what you have to say. Just an idea, of course.

posted November 24, 2013 10:21 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by filleaspirant:
Hmm... so I found this http://noeltyl.com/discussion/index.php?topic=5095.0 to speak for an exception to the early ascendant rule, which states:

As far as I know, midpoints are strong but are not planets... I don't mean to be a debbie downer here, but I believe we must adhere to some rules... does the midpoint of North Nodes equate and signify the same thing as a planet in that degree? Those who are more knowledgeable in natal astrology, please speak up and help me out here.

Also, I've never read Saturn in the first being a stricture... What I have read is that:

[QUOTE]If Saturn is in the 1st House (or, presumably, conjunct the Ascendent), then the matter will rarely work out as the seeker hopes, especially when Saturn is retrograde. An exception to this rule may be when Saturn's placement in the first is somehow descriptive of what's going on. Look at the chart, "Will I get the Anullment?" (in the drop-down menu below) for an example of a retrograde Saturn conjunct the Ascendant. In this case, the seeker did indeed get what he wanted: the anullment. It was, however, delayed, and Saturn often signifies delay.

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Maybe I should have stated that the ASC conjuncts both our natal NNs by less than 1'30" orb, instead of the "exact" conjunction of the midpoints. I wasn't thinking about the fact that "midpoints" can be calculated all the way around the chart. My bad. Forgive my retro merc

But, like you argued about the midpoint, the NN isn't a PLANET either.

posted November 24, 2013 10:23 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by filleaspirant:
LionFish, have you tried writing your thoughts and feelings on paper and giving it to him? Ask him to read it when he's away from you but alone, so he can really think on what you have to say. Just an idea, of course.

Good luck, dear!

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posted November 24, 2013 10:36 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by LionFish:
Maybe I should have stated that the ASC conjuncts both our natal NNs by less than 1'30" orb, instead of the "exact" conjunction of the midpoints. I wasn't thinking about the fact that "midpoints" can be calculated all the way around the chart. My bad. Forgive my retro merc

But, like you argued about the midpoint, the NN isn't a PLANET either.

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Sorry about this, LionFish... Perhaps Jessica knows of another exception, that is different from the one I found... Hopefully when she comes around here, she can tell us what that exception is and what she's reading in the chart.

I'm not entirely comfortable giving you a yes or no answer to your question, because of the early ascendant and my ignorance to the exception to it, but you're Mars and your boyfriend is Venus, who are in an applying trine, which is very auspicious.

posted November 24, 2013 10:40 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by LionFish:
I haven't tried that yet. It'd probably be better than me saying it anyway. Or at least be a heck of a lot more comprehensive. I can edit written words, the things I say... ugh sometimes I wish I could eat my words.

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posted November 24, 2013 11:04 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by filleaspirant:
Sorry about this, LionFish... Perhaps Jessica knows of another exception, that is different from the one I found... Hopefully when she comes around here, she can tell us what that exception is and what she's reading in the chart.

I'm not entirely comfortable giving you a yes or no answer to your question, because of the early ascendant and my ignorance to the exception to it, but you're Mars and your boyfriend is Venus, who are in an applying trine, which is very auspicious.

I actually drew a very similar chart for me the other day, but got Saturn in 7th, while I was Venus and guy was Mars. So, by experience, I can tell you this guy likes you a lot, for he's in the sign where you're exalted. But you... you actually left him in his Fall... my guy was receiving me in my term, but you're not receiving him at all. I know you said you've had a bit of problem communicating with him but -- how are you feeling about him lately?

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posted November 24, 2013 11:06 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by filleaspirant:
Lol, I don't know why not many people do this anymore, but I've always communicated my feelings to other people by the written form, because I get really tongue-tied and embarrassed if I have to voice them. And people usually feel compelled to give you an answer, even if it's a short one, because you poured your heart out on paper and it shows how much you want/need an answer.

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It used to actually be the only way I communicated feelings because it was the only way I could get them across clearly. I like the point you made, though. I couldn't receive a note/letter like that from somebody and not give them some sort of response. That would be heartless. And, it takes the pressure off of him having to respond right away...

posted November 24, 2013 12:31 PM            

You are a leo,Lionfish, right? Or am I confusing you with someone else?

EDIT : I realised now that it's the moon north node, not SN that is found in the 1st, that is considered positive.

posted November 24, 2013 01:45 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by LionFish:
Like I can't trust him. Honesty/trust are huge issues for me. Once a lie has been told and trust broken, it's very very hard for me to reconcile because I start wondering what else is being lied about. The fact that I even want to try to do so speaks volumes for my feelings for him. Normally, I don't even give a chance for a liar caught to apologize, let alone stay around them to let them try to make amends. But it's probably making me a bit cold and distant toward him, if you want the short and skinny of it.

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Yeah... I don't want to go into your personal stuff and presume but your horary shows your aggravation with him. You're in his fall sign, which is very debilitating to him, which makes me think you're really upset with him. Actually, that answer you just gave me? I don't need a horary to tell me you're not happy with him and you're not thinking the best of him.

Like I said, I don't want to intrude but why ask if he still wants to get married if you're feeling all this towards him? Personally, I couldn't imagine myself thinking of marriage with such a weight on my mind and heart, because the distrust would corrode the relationship, myself and my feelings... But I have very weird standards and ideals, so I understand other people's take on these type of things, like really moving past such an obstacle and everything.

If you'd rather not talk about it, let me know and we can stop, but I felt a lot of internalized anger, resentment and disappointment in that reply and you should really work that out before saying anything to him... He probably doesn't want to listen to you because you're coming from a place of hurt feelings and you're lashing out...

posted November 24, 2013 01:53 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by LionFish:
It used to actually be the only way I communicated feelings because it was the only way I could get them across clearly. I like the point you made, though. I couldn't receive a note/letter like that from somebody and not give them some sort of response. That would be heartless. And, it takes the pressure off of him having to respond right away...

It seems you're full of good ideas

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Giiiiirl, this is 10 years of full-on practice

But I've been lucky and only liked guys that cared for me one way or another, so never got my words throwed back in my face or even passed around for the amusement of others. I think this guy really cares for you and he'll have time and peace of mind (he's going to -- hopefully! -- be reflecting on his own feelings) to write you a response.

I wish you all the luck on this enterprise, dear.

posted November 25, 2013 07:01 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Jessica2407:
Some horary astrologers have noted an exception to the early ascendant stricture. They say when a natal planet of the querent corresponds to the exact degree of the early ascendant to the minute, this ascendant has a very special meaning to the querent. If the horary chart can be used to describe the querent then the horary chart can still be used with an early ascendant. Now Saturn is a stricture because he is a traditional malefic ( and Mars) that when found in the 1st house indicates that nothing good with happen, that this question will bring no clarification except further disappointment which is the case. His significator is in your 3rd house in the house of Capricorn, you are Mars. Mars and Saturn do not do well together, and Saturn is in ASC.It indicates that the querent is depressed, fearful, apprehensive, that is why some horary astrologers consider it as a stricture unless he is the significator of the querent that gives strength to the querent when placed in the first house. You also got the moon nodes in the first which indicate a unfavourable answer.So in all the horary chart points to an unfavourable answer supported by the early ascendant which may be mean it is too early to ask or there are other developments that are likely to come.

You are a leo,Lionfish, right? Or am I confusing you with someone else?

EDIT : I realised now that it's the moon north node, not SN that is found in the 1st, that is considered positive.

Mars is peregrine, venus is in her term in cap, he does what he wants. Mars and Venus is in trine applying aspect. However this trine will not perfect, venus will be entering her retrograde phase before that, mars is moving faster than venus...will likely change sign. I don't like this horary chart lol but since here ( please take this with a grain of salt lionfish) your significator is mars that shows a propensity to fight or argue while his significator is venus, a benefic, in cap, he is a bit aloof, and may be insensitive to your ''concerns''

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I'm a Pisces Sun, Leo Rising.

posted November 25, 2013 07:25 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by filleaspirant:
Yeah... I don't want to go into your personal stuff and presume but your horary shows your aggravation with him. You're in his fall sign, which is very debilitating to him, which makes me think you're really upset with him. Actually, that answer you just gave me? I don't need a horary to tell me you're not happy with him and you're not thinking the best of him.

Like I said, I don't want to intrude but why ask if he still wants to get married if you're feeling all this towards him? Personally, I couldn't imagine myself thinking of marriage with such a weight on my mind and heart, because the distrust would corrode the relationship, myself and my feelings... But I have very weird standards and ideals, so I understand other people's take on these type of things, like really moving past such an obstacle and everything.

If you'd rather not talk about it, let me know and we can stop, but I felt a lot of internalized anger, resentment and disappointment in that reply and you should really work that out before saying anything to him... He probably doesn't want to listen to you because you're coming from a place of hurt feelings and you're lashing out...

Ok, let me stop before I overstep my own boundaries here. Please, think about what I said, ok?

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You're not intruding, I put my business out there for others to behold

The reason I still want to marry him is simply because I love him. He's a wonderful person and he truly makes me happy. Normally, like you, I wouldn't even be able to consider staying if the trust isn't there, but he's got an addiction problem and I can't abandon him without fighting for him first. I know it's a rough road to go travel, and honestly if I had known about it before we started dating I probably wouldn't have even gone down that path, but I didn't know. And by the time I found out, it was far too late for me to just walk away from him.

It's been about 5 weeks now since he last did anything, since our last conversation about it. Previous times I'll admit, I wasn't rational. I was angry and I made it known, but that just causes him to shut down and lash out instead of talking to me. And I realized that before going into this last conversation. So instead of starting an argument that would have gone nowhere, I calmly told him that he was ruining our relationship. That I couldn't take being lied to anymore, that he was breaking my heart with what he was doing to himself, and to us. I told him I didn't want a drug addict for a husband, that I want us to be successful in our lives together, to be better than "doin' okay." That I wanted better for him! Because that's where my anger was truly coming from. I was angry at him and the world for giving me this seemingly perfect (for me!!) man who didn't want to live up to his own potential as a wonderful human being.

After that conversation, no yelling.. I told him I just didn't have it in me to fight about it anymore, and I honestly don't. I told him that I knew he would do what he wanted, but hoped that my feelings on the matter would sway his decisions. And then I let it drop.

Until a few nights ago. When I thought he had been doing it again. And I asked him outright. He told me no, and I told him I didn't believe him. That he's lied to me about it so much that I'm not sure if I can believe him on the matter. And in that moment I think he realized what he had done to our relationship. He started crying when he realized that I don't trust him anymore. I asked him flat out if me/my feelings were enough to keep him away from it. He told me yes, and I believe it now, where I didn't before.

posted November 27, 2013 05:18 PM            

I have someone that I love very much in my life that I don't trust as welll, so I understand where you're coming from. I wish I had your strength to fight to save this relationship I have, but the hurt is too deep and the person is either unwilling or unable to change. It's not even a question of lack of love, as this person is my father, so I know he loves me just as much or even more than I love him. It's a question of how he puts himself on the margins of my life, not even participating in the big things I accomplish every now and then. BUT, I feel that if he ever decides to approach me and give our relationship a try, we could overcome the obstacle of the years he missed out on. I'm hopeful, you see.

Back to your topic, I think you are now making the right choices by not getting angry and yelling at him. Did you try writing down your feelings on paper and giving it to him? Even if he doesn't read it, I find that, by being so openly exposed in writing, helps me to get peace with myself and handle everyone else better. It's like, once every angst and chocked down thought is put on paper, I can go face anything that was bothering with a light heart and a clear mind.

I feel like I should tell you that your story touched me. I admire this type of altruism and love, and I wish you all the happiness and good things in both of your lives.

posted November 28, 2013 07:07 AM            

Don't ever give up hope on your father!! I wish every day that I could have just one more day with mine. We had a wonderful relationship and it makes me horribly sad to hear when somebody doesn't have that with their own father. All I can say is try to always be the better person because one day, he'll realize what he's missed out on and kick himself while he begs your forgiveness. The best thing you can do is be there to grant that to him and fill him in on everything he's missed out on when the time does come.

As for me.. I don't feel strong. I feel like I'm breaking under this. Thank you, though. I know that I'm where I'm needed, and where my love can do the most good.. And that's important to me. I just hope that whatever comes of this, him and I are both happy and better because of it.

posted November 28, 2013 08:25 AM            

I don't think I'll ever be able to give up on my father, don't worry. We had an amazing, nurturing relationship until I was 9 and he separated from my mom. Once he moved out of the house, it was like he moved out of my own life. He was my favorite parent and the one person I loved the most and unconditionally, so it took me a lot of time to accept this different version of him and the new dinamic in our relationship. I have tried everything in my power to keep a channel open, but he has some issues and headaches of his own doing, so he rarely initiates contact... This used to hurt me the most, but now I realize he doesn't do it to hurt me, he does it because he doesn't know what else to do than to let me live my life and grow up. He does what he can, I guess. I am sure one day we will look back on this and he will regret his choices, but they ARE his choices and my reactions are more consequences to it than anything I want to voluntarily do. We all have to live with the choices we make, right? I choose to let him steer our relationship the way he's comfortable with. I don't mind waiting for him to become comfortable with the things I'm building and doing in my life while I work on myself and my own issues with him (hey, a girl gotta have daddy issues in a situation like that ). Like I said, I'm forever hopeful on this matter.

But you are strong, LionFish. Look at what you're choosing to do: you're following your heart. That's a strength not many people can say they have, you know... If there's anything that can change us, as human beings, it's love. I know that sounds cliche and corny, but you can really do wonders with your love for your guy. I hope he wins this battle against addiction that he's striving and that you guys can build up the trust again. Trust and forgiveness take a long time to fully come back, so have patience with him and with yourself. Don't demand from yourself more than you can give, ok? Remember that you're both humans who make mistakes but can create/do many beautiful things and that should take you through any tough, testing day.