posted June 07, 2015 02:02 PM            

I have my sun sign placed at 29 degrees Aquarius, Saturn at 2 degrees Pisces, Mercury at 3 degrees Pisces, and Venus at 7 degrees Pisces.

As you can see, according to traditional astrology all of the planets in my stellium are combust (except maybe Venus) and apparently this means that Saturn, Mercury, and Venus are all 'reporting back to my sun sign'.

HOWEVER, the main issue I'm having despite being told that I'm an extreme narcissist who doesn't want to work and whose communications are influenced by nothing but pure egotistical purposes, is that I can't seem to figure out which planets are in the fourth house and which ones are in the third house.

To be completely honest, all of the planets feel like they're in my 4th house including my sun sign (which I know for a fact is in my 3rd house, but possibly interpreted in the 4th) ever since I began studying astrology and examining the effects it has on me. I went to the hospital and asked for my birth records and I got back a stack of paper telling me I was born at exactly 12:45 in the morning, which I have a gut feeling that the nurse just quickly jotted the time down with no attention to detail, which wouldn't normally be an issue unless you have a complicated birth chart such as myself.

So I have a few charts here with varying times to show you what my concern is in case if you're confused.

This chart assumes that my stellium is mainly in the fourth house
http://s1117.photobucket.com/user/meowpower94/media/1225_zpsjhqgvftt.gif.html

This chart uses the time that the nurse wrote down, and suggests that my stellium is mainly in the third house
http://s1117.photobucket.com/user/meowpower94/media/1245_zpslukzjpb4.gif.html

As you can see, the degrees of the angles vary by 6 degrees, however, the small and more important details are very hard to figure out.

The main planets that are confusing me are Saturn and Mercury.

Saturn represents the father, discipline, and responsibility. Mercury represents communication and intellectual processes and is retrograde in my chart.

The third house represents communications, siblings, and education. The fourth house represents family, heritage, and my inner world.

My background story (these are all sad stories ranging from my birth up until the age of 16):

My mother birthed me into this world as a way to "save" her. This is what she told me when I was younger. She wanted to get away from my father and she also wanted me to be "her" kid. This has left me with some issues needless to say, but I've been deeply aware of the influences of Saturn since I was a child and that I had some sort of family responsibility to live up to.

I've always had issues with my father probably due to that. My memories of my father during my childhood are mainly blacked out or didn't happen. He would leave the house and not come back for days. This meant that my mother had to work extra hours to support the family because he couldn't keep himself out of trouble and ended up in jail a few times (Saturn in 4th house).

During the times my mother was at work, my aunt Jan always took care of me. I began to look at my aunt as my mother during that time and I was obviously just really confused about my life and still very very very young. I loved spending time with her and we would go out and do things and go places every time that I saw her and I loved it. Until eventually, she died of breast cancer. I was only 4 years old at this point and had no idea what death meant. She hadn't ever mentioned anything to me about it and it completely took me by surprise. I had to learn at a very young age how to cope with the loss of a mother figure and someone I loved deeply.

Shortly after this happened I developed a sickness known as HSP, which is an auto-immune disorder that the doctors believe was caused by a stomach virus that my body took way too seriously and went into overdrive. I was vomiting constantly and had severe internal bleeding and blood in my stool. My mother was told that it only lasts for about 3 months and that after that I would be back in full health. After those 3 months my sickness had mainly faded and I began Kindergarten (still 4 years old). After being in Kindergarten for awhile the sickness actually returned. It kept on coming back in spurts for about 14 months and I would be in and out of the hospital. During that time, we were learning how to read and write at school but I was never there for it (Saturn in 3rd house).

After all of this and after finishing Kindergarten without knowing how to read and write, my mother moved us to a new school district. After that year, I was moved to a new school district. And after that year, I was once again moved to a new school district. And then after that year, once again....moved to a new school district. (Retrograde Mercury in 4th house, multiple changes of home)

During all of these changes in school I was put into multiple programs for learning how to read and write and by the time I reached 4th grade I was the top in my class for both math and writing. (Retrograde Mercury in 3rd house, adept at learning new things) However, the kids in school didn't like me because of my voice, and the fact that I talked like a girl, and I was deeply aware of this and felt very insecure to speak in front of others (Retrograde Mercury conjunct Saturn opposite Midheaven)

Also, during these changes of address, my older brother and his even older friends had abused me in many ways I'd rather not speak of openly. Let's just say that they were discovering new things about their bodies and I wasn't at the time, but I wanted to be their friend, so they talked me into doing very bad things. I had blacked this part out of my memory until the age of 14. Me and my brother have always had a strained relationship and communication (Saturn and Retrograde Mercury in 3rd house) but it became even more so when I began remembering the things that had happened to me and realized how awful it was. (Saturn and Retrograde Mercury in 4th house, hidden from view, but still connected to my 29 degree Sun sign in 3rd house)

On top of this, I wasn't willing to tell my mother or anyone in my family and am still not because I have respect for my brother and don't want to tarnish his image, but I am DEEPLY aware of what happened and can remember all of it vividly. Plus at the time I was beginning to remember these things, my mother was just starting to open up to me about her drug abuse, how awful my father actually treated her, why she had birthed me, how she tried to kill herself when she was 11, and that her father molested her sister, etc. It was messed up. Chiron is strong in her chart.

I followed in her footsteps when I was 15 and had just got out of an awful first shot at a relationship with another man who belittled me and used me for sex, while I was madly in love. I tried to kill myself and overdose. Looking back on it, Neptune had just began to transit my stellium and so did Chiron. However, during this time, my house was a VERY strict place and anything I did or said wrong was held against me. Me and my mother had an awful relationship and rarely communicated and she didn't want to let me go out and do anything. (Saturn and Retrograde Mercury in 4th house)

SO YEAH I'M JUST REALLY CONFUSED

I've always had issues with my family in general (4th house) but I've also always had issues with my education and sibling (3rd house).

I'm here thinking about myself (as my combust stellium should indicate) and I'm beyond confused about the placements of these planets. I know I was born between 12:25 and 12:45.... that's all that I'm aware of. Are the planets all posited in my 3rd house next to my 4th and that's why they all have a dark undertone to them? Or is it because Saturn is part of the stellium and part of many square aspects? Are they all in the 4th house and that's why my home/parents have always been a sore spot for me, but linked to the 3rd house and that's what caused issues with my education and brother? Or is that just Chiron opposing all of the planets? Is the energy between Saturn and Mercury lost because they are combust the Sun?

Honestly, my childhood was just as confusing as my natal chart. And if you read all of this, thank you because I feel a lot better after writing that and I appreciate your attention. Maybe at this point I should get an exact birth time rectification...but at the same time the dynamics between these planets are so confusing I don't know if one would want to do that for me.

posted June 08, 2015 08:36 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Randall:
Bump!

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posted June 09, 2015 12:53 PM            

You seem very sweet, but realize that there is not much room for advice if you start off with I have been studying for 4 years and they also tell people everything you know about your chart and how it has affected your life. It's almost like blocking the doorway to a party when you really just want people to enter. Yes, you may have to filter some people out later, but beginners are the ones most often seeing things with new eyes! And who knows who you might let in the breakdancer who's in town visiting their cousin.

Also, Ceridwen or Ami Anne would also be good for you to connect with you might try writing them directly. Hug and good luck.

--

Please do not quote.

posted June 09, 2015 03:33 PM            

I glanced at your post earlier and at first look it seemed too involved for a quick evaluation.

Here's my two cents anyways:

First off, in looking at the first chart and thinking about your dilemma (things are confusing to you in your chart), well transiting Neptune in Pisces is bearing down on that stellium for one, which may be why you are having trouble getting a clear picture of your chart and how that area relates to your life.

I have a relative that was also born with Scorpio rising and Pluto (some might say Mars) was also in Scorpio. He looked girlie in his youth, but is definitely a mans man with a sensitive side--especially consoling others when someone has endured a loss of a friend or relative--good for working in a funeral home.

Anyways, the mercury conjunct Saturn to me (I have it squared) means that you need to learn to stand up for yourself in communicating (3rd house) with others--especially authority figures. It makes you detailed and thorough and in your case good for art or imagination. It's admirable that you still have respect for your sibling with all that you had experienced in your childhood, but maybe that's just the idealism or veil that Pisces colors your Mercury and Saturn with as well as Venus wanting to maintain harmony. As you said in the history you gave, you wanted them to like you. It should be interesting to see what happens for you as transiting Saturn gets closer to making a direct square to your stellium while in Sagittarius. The current transit of Pluto in Capricorn in your 2nd is also significant as it impacts the natal Jupiter in your 12th and likely one that will bring up some of the past for it to be transformed and healed as well as making you wiser for it.

Your intercepted 12th and 6th house speaks to me and says that your biggest lesson in life is that by learning to help others, you yourself can heal and transform your life. Your chart ruler in the first is a big one for transformation and that's why you see those wonderful and amazing things come your way when harmonious transits hit your stellium.

Hope this helps.

posted June 09, 2015 08:58 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by ReadingTheStars95:
Honestly, I'd be interested in replying to this.. I just haven't had the chance to read through it yet.. I'll see what I can do sometime today..

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posted June 09, 2015 10:30 PM            

Now.. From my personal experience with having Neptune in the 4th house, and also knowing someone else with Neptune in the 4th house.. Well.. A lot of what you are describing at least in the beginning seems to resonate in a similar way. Neptune in the 4th isn't exactly the same as having your IC in Pisces.. But, I'm sure there could be similarities.

Coming from my experience with Neptune in the 4th..

Often it seems that at least one parent seems to be mostly absent from the house.. Or is distant/cold/kind of cut off.

Personally, my Mom is an alcoholic.. I spent many times taking care of HER when she should have been taking care of me.. (before the ages of 16).. I spent a lot of time dealing with very unpleasant situations, because of her addiction. Through time, it seems her health has gone downhill, and as of recently, it has almost seemed as if she won't make it through what she is currently facing. I've spent years watching my Mother abuse her body, and slowly watching her health dwindle.. Just recently, I've had to spent quite a bit of time taking care of her, because she has become unable to walk on her own(keep in mind, I just recently turned 20.. My Mom is only in her early 50's).. Even more recently, she was admitted to the hospital. Now, the interesting thing is this, I also have a sister.. She does not have Neptune in the 4th.

Over the last 8-9 years.. I have been the main one taking care of my Mom (this spans back to when I was about 12..).. Whether it be because of her health, or because she was going through withdrawal, or drank way too much. I've seen my mom go through things that my sister - luckily - has not. So, I think that is kind of where the differences in our charts show up. My sister was/has often been elsewhere, while I was at home being the nurse.. Sometimes being forced into situations where I had no idea what to do.. Whether or not to call the ambulance.. Whether or not to believe the things my mom was telling me..

Don't get me wrong.. My sister has experienced some of it too.. But, I have often been the one (even when compared to my dad) that has seen her at her worst moments. I guess part of the reason is because my dad often gave up and made me take care of her. He often became impatient with her.

Another thing.. My dad has always been quite cut off/distant with me.. (this may be partly my fault, honestly..) But, not really so much with my Sister.. And, even while he provides for me in some ways.. I would say that emotionally, he is quite absent with me when compared to my sister.. Not to mention, I don't see him much because of the hours he works.. And as I kind of mentioned.. When I do see him, he feels very distanced.. He never really talks with me.

Believe me, I'm not saying that I envy my sister, or that I dislike her in any ways.. I'm just trying to show how I believe Neptune in the 4th manifests for me..

I have a friend with Neptune in the 4th who is around the same age as me (she is 18..) Who's Mom is terminally ill. She hasn't spoken much of it, but it wouldn't surprise me if she has also had to spend quite a bit of time taking care of her Mom.

To me.. I just see that a Pisces IC, or Neptune in the 4th house generally brings a certain amount of tragedy to the family environment. Like I said.. I'm sure having the IC on Pisces, and having Neptune in the 4th could be a bit different.. But.. To me.. I could definitely see them having SOME similarities..

Also.. Those hard aspects to your Moon could have something to say.. (especially the Moon-Pluto opposition..)

"Sadly, the father may be physically absent through separation, divorce or death, representing elusiveness and inaccessibility. There can also be a deep sadness around him, and he may be unobtainable to the person physically and/or psychologically. Usually there is an unconscious over-idealization of this fatherly figure, and on some level a solid relationship with him has been sacrificed." - http://www.theastrologyplace.uk/2009/10/neptune-in-fourth-house.html

That is a definition I found for Neptune in the 4th.. Like I said.. I know you don't have Neptune in the 4th.. But, Pisces IS ruled by Neptune after all..

So.. What I'm saying.. Is.. At the very least, you may want to look into having your IC in Pisces a little bit more.

I personally think regardless of whether those planets are in the 3rd or the 4th, an IC of Pisces in itself could bring some of the things you mentioned. Remember, the 3rd house actually relates to the family quite a bit too.. As the 3rd house resonates with who we interact with on a DAILY basis.. And, those who we are in close contact with. Having Saturn there could definitely (at least to me..) show a certain amount of distance or absence of family too..

In other words, I see it that the 3rd house does deal a certain amount with the family, while the 4th deals with the home.. But the thing is, "Home" is not always where the family is, sadly. Although, they generally have a close tie with one another. Ideally, home is with family.. and that is where the family association comes in with the 4th house.. However, sometimes, a person is not AT HOME when with family. "Home" is bigger than just who you live with.

posted June 09, 2015 11:06 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Springtimeflower:
Hi Meowpower,

I glanced at your post earlier and at first look it seemed too involved for a quick evaluation.

Here's my two cents anyways:

First off, in looking at the first chart and thinking about your dilemma (things are confusing to you in your chart), well transiting Neptune in Pisces is bearing down on that stellium for one, which may be why you are having trouble getting a clear picture of your chart and how that area relates to your life.

I have a relative that was also born with Scorpio rising and Pluto (some might say Mars) was also in Scorpio. He looked girlie in his youth, but is definitely a mans man with a sensitive side--especially consoling others when someone has endured a loss of a friend or relative--good for working in a funeral home.

Anyways, the mercury conjunct Saturn to me (I have it squared) means that you need to learn to stand up for yourself in communicating (3rd house) with others--especially authority figures. It makes you detailed and thorough and in your case good for art or imagination. It's admirable that you still have respect for your sibling with all that you had experienced in your childhood, but maybe that's just the idealism or veil that Pisces colors your Mercury and Saturn with as well as Venus wanting to maintain harmony. As you said in the history you gave, you wanted them to like you. It should be interesting to see what happens for you as transiting Saturn gets closer to making a direct square to your stellium while in Sagittarius. The current transit of Pluto in Capricorn in your 2nd is also significant as it impacts the natal Jupiter in your 12th and likely one that will bring up some of the past for it to be transformed and healed as well as making you wiser for it.

Your intercepted 12th and 6th house speaks to me and says that your biggest lesson in life is that by learning to help others, you yourself can heal and transform your life. Your chart ruler in the first is a big one for transformation and that's why you see those wonderful and amazing things come your way when harmonious transits hit your stellium.

Hope this helps.

Best wishes,
Spring

---

This helped me very much! Thanks for your concerns. I am glad you mentioned something about intercepted houses. I was told about it once but never looked into it. Also, the neptune transiting my stellium has been pretty crazy. Lots and lots of emotions, but confusion has played a large part in it as you said. Overall it has given me an interest in astrology and an extremely thorough understanding of why I'm here and the way my mind/body works with my spirit. I have began to understand some of the ways telepathy actually manifests in our everyday lives as well as the functioning of my chakras. It has also given me borderline lucid dreams the past few years. I have been seeing things happen in my dreams only to wake up and the things ACTUALLY happen in the outside world throughout my day, almost every day. There have also been a few times where me and a friend have had the same dream at the same time, then talked about it later on. It just happened to me this morning after staying the night at my friends house.

posted June 09, 2015 11:16 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by ReadingTheStars95:
Honestly, I haven't even gotten finished reading.. But, I have to say this.. Either way, your IC is in Pisces.

Now.. From my personal experience with having Neptune in the 4th house, and also knowing someone else with Neptune in the 4th house.. Well.. A lot of what you are describing at least in the beginning seems to resonate in a similar way. Neptune in the 4th isn't exactly the same as having your IC in Pisces.. But, I'm sure there could be similarities.

Coming from my experience with Neptune in the 4th..

Often it seems that at least one parent seems to be mostly absent from the house.. Or is distant/cold/kind of cut off.

Personally, my Mom is an alcoholic.. I spent many times taking care of HER when she should have been taking care of me.. (before the ages of 16).. I spent a lot of time dealing with very unpleasant situations, because of her addiction. Through time, it seems her health has gone downhill, and as of recently, it has almost seemed as if she won't make it through what she is currently facing. I've spent years watching my Mother abuse her body, and slowly watching her health dwindle.. Just recently, I've had to spent quite a bit of time taking care of her, because she has become unable to walk on her own(keep in mind, I just recently turned 20.. My Mom is only in her early 50's).. Even more recently, she was admitted to the hospital. Now, the interesting thing is this, I also have a sister.. She does not have Neptune in the 4th.

Over the last 8-9 years.. I have been the main one taking care of my Mom (this spans back to when I was about 12..).. Whether it be because of her health, or because she was going through withdrawal, or drank way too much. I've seen my mom go through things that my sister - luckily - has not. So, I think that is kind of where the differences in our charts show up. My sister was/has often been elsewhere, while I was at home being the nurse.. Sometimes being forced into situations where I had no idea what to do.. Whether or not to call the ambulance.. Whether or not to believe the things my mom was telling me..

Don't get me wrong.. My sister has experienced some of it too.. But, I have often been the one (even when compared to my dad) that has seen her at her worst moments. I guess part of the reason is because my dad often gave up and made me take care of her. He often became impatient with her.

Another thing.. My dad has always been quite cut off/distant with me.. (this may be partly my fault, honestly..) But, not really so much with my Sister.. And, even while he provides for me in some ways.. I would say that emotionally, he is quite absent with me when compared to my sister.. Not to mention, I don't see him much because of the hours he works.. And as I kind of mentioned.. When I do see him, he feels very distanced.. He never really talks with me.

Believe me, I'm not saying that I envy my sister, or that I dislike her in any ways.. I'm just trying to show how I believe Neptune in the 4th manifests for me..

I have a friend with Neptune in the 4th who is around the same age as me (she is 18..) Who's Mom is terminally ill. She hasn't spoken much of it, but it wouldn't surprise me if she has also had to spend quite a bit of time taking care of her Mom.

To me.. I just see that a Pisces IC, or Neptune in the 4th house generally brings a certain amount of tragedy to the family environment. Like I said.. I'm sure having the IC on Pisces, and having Neptune in the 4th could be a bit different.. But.. To me.. I could definitely see them having SOME similarities..

Also.. Those hard aspects to your Moon could have something to say.. (especially the Moon-Pluto opposition..)

"Sadly, the father may be physically absent through separation, divorce or death, representing elusiveness and inaccessibility. There can also be a deep sadness around him, and he may be unobtainable to the person physically and/or psychologically. Usually there is an unconscious over-idealization of this fatherly figure, and on some level a solid relationship with him has been sacrificed." - http://www.theastrologyplace.uk/2009/10/neptune-in-fourth-house.html

That is a definition I found for Neptune in the 4th.. Like I said.. I know you don't have Neptune in the 4th.. But, Pisces IS ruled by Neptune after all..

So.. What I'm saying.. Is.. At the very least, you may want to look into having your IC in Pisces a little bit more.

I personally think regardless of whether those planets are in the 3rd or the 4th, an IC of Pisces in itself could bring some of the things you mentioned. Remember, the 3rd house actually relates to the family quite a bit too.. As the 3rd house resonates with who we interact with on a DAILY basis.. And, those who we are in close contact with. Having Saturn there could definitely (at least to me..) show a certain amount of distance or absence of family too..

In other words, I see it that the 3rd house does deal a certain amount with the family, while the 4th deals with the home.. But the thing is, "Home" is not always where the family is, sadly. Although, they generally have a close tie with one another. Ideally, home is with family.. and that is where the family association comes in with the 4th house.. However, sometimes, a person is not AT HOME when with family. "Home" is bigger than just who you live with.

(sorry.. I know I rambled quite a bit in this message.. And some of it may not have been worded or punctuated well.. I'm kind of tired, but considering I told you I would get back to you, I wanted to stick to my word lol.)

---

I agree! My IC is definitely in Pisces. And maybe I am being a bit particular with how my chart works, but what else would you expect from a virgo MC? Lol.

But on a more serious note, I'm sorry to hear about your experience with your mother and I hope that things get better for you and your sister. It sucks having a parent or parent figure who isn't responsible for their own actions. The first person who has to take care of that before more help is needed is always the child, it seems. As for your relationship with your father, have you tried telling him about the way you feel? Or do you think you'll get shut down?

posted June 10, 2015 12:19 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by meowpower:
This helped me very much! Thanks for your concerns. I am glad you mentioned something about intercepted houses. I was told about it once but never looked into it. Also, the neptune transiting my stellium has been pretty crazy. Lots and lots of emotions, but confusion has played a large part in it as you said. Overall it has given me an interest in astrology and an extremely thorough understanding of why I'm here and the way my mind/body works with my spirit. I have began to understand some of the ways telepathy actually manifests in our everyday lives as well as the functioning of my chakras. It has also given me borderline lucid dreams the past few years. I have been seeing things happen in my dreams only to wake up and the things ACTUALLY happen in the outside world throughout my day, almost every day. There have also been a few times where me and a friend have had the same dream at the same time, then talked about it later on. It just happened to me this morning after staying the night at my friends house.

And as for Saturn, I was aware of it before it began transiting so I've been doing well with it I suppose. Right now it's squaring my sun and saturn and so far what has happened is my mom has a boyfriend who is addicted to alcohol. He's like a replica of my father. Which I believe is more due to issues on her part, and not as much my outlook on him. He isn't particularly fond of me. I had to call the cops on him one night while he was drunk and slamming things around our home. After that my mom decided he should leave for awhile. But, he is now living with us again after being gone for awhile and our communication is strained (I'm so used to this at this point it really isn't phasing me). I've been avoiding the home as much as possible, kind of hoping the situation takes care of itself. Maybe that's wrong on my part? But you can only do and say so much when a person truly doesn't realize they have a problem. I've been there before, to a lesser extent (I overcame an addiction to anxiety medication during the early stages of neptune transiting my stellium), so I feel he needs to see it on his own without me pushing it down his throat. That is what I needed, and it is all I know how to do. Time will tell.

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Glad I could help! I think you will help your mother when the Saturn transit finishes (the guy will be probably be gone for good then).

I went out with someone once that was a drinker--to me he seemed to be an alcoholic, but his mom thought he was just over-indulgence on his part. Anyways, some drama came up where I met him and I dropped out of the relationship. About a year later he was diagnosed with brain cancer and had to quit drinking. He passed away less than a year later. When people drink like he did, they want to do what they want to. He had frenetic energy that I found debilitating to be around and as an empath- I found myself picking up his energy even while absent. It's cool that you and your friend share that gift as most people not so enlightened might find it odd.

I have Neptune near my Sun natally and also have dreams that come true, but not right afterwards. I've kept a journal and look at it every so often.

I'm sure as the years progress, your mother will appreciate you more and more. We are all here for a reason--sometimes it takes time to figure out why.

I haven't learned much as asteroids and many other parts of astrology--there is so much to it that you would never get bored. Enjoy!

Also, with the Saturn transit squaring your Mercury, there will be something in your life that isn't working out and it's possible that you will see the answer with a critical eye and make the necessary changes to bring about harmony there.