Author
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Topic: Are Income Taxes Voluntary?
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Randall Webmaster Posts: 16464 From: Columbus, GA USA Registered: Nov 2000
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posted August 17, 2002 02:17 PM
www.paynoincometax.com ------------------ "Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark IP: Logged |
Cat Moderator Posts: 3307 From: England Registered: Jan 2002
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posted August 17, 2002 02:23 PM
LOL Great question Randall Well I sure wish they were voluntary here in England - cos I'd volunteer not to pay them Sue IP: Logged |
QueenofSheeba Moderator Posts: 738 From: California, USA Registered: Feb 2003
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posted August 17, 2002 02:24 PM
Oooh...I LIKE that.I never want to give money to someone who will spend it on war-making No more taxes No more taxes ...Not that I've ever paid any...
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mambo Knowflake Posts: 170 From: New Zealand Registered: Jun 2002
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posted August 18, 2002 03:29 PM
Randall do you have Irwins book?There is around $200m annually that quietly goes into NZ politicians overseas accounts from the tax on petrol(gas), and the public don't know about it. I'm sure the same would happen over there and the UK. Four years ago a man refused to pay his Broadcasting Fee, this was required by everyone that owned a TV and it funded TV stations, Radio stations...his argument was that it was an illegal tax and generating revenue for the Governments in power. Suddenly there were more people refusing to pay the TAX and there was a large court battle...the Judge ruled in his favour, but we didn't see any rebate. Goes to show what a few people can do if you stick up for yourselves. IP: Logged |
Randall Webmaster Posts: 16464 From: Columbus, GA USA Registered: Nov 2000
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posted August 19, 2002 11:48 AM
I have read all of Schiff's books. ------------------ "Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark IP: Logged |
mambo Knowflake Posts: 170 From: New Zealand Registered: Jun 2002
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posted August 19, 2002 04:45 PM
Randall is what he saying correct and are you going to implement it.
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Aphrodite Moderator Posts: 3280 From: San Francisco, CA, United States Registered: Feb 2002
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posted August 19, 2002 04:57 PM
is this for real??? has anyone actually tried it?IP: Logged |
Randall Webmaster Posts: 16464 From: Columbus, GA USA Registered: Nov 2000
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posted August 20, 2002 12:21 PM
I know many nonfilers. Those who teach others are selectively prosecuted, although they haven't touched Schiff in many years. ------------------ "Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark IP: Logged |
mambo Knowflake Posts: 170 From: New Zealand Registered: Jun 2002
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posted August 20, 2002 05:20 PM
From a brief look at that link I thought Schiff said the IRS had as much power as the average citizen, under what law are they getting prosecuted if taxes are voluntary. Why do they leave him alone?IP: Logged |
jwhop Knowflake Posts: 1112 From: Registered: Aug 2001
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posted August 21, 2002 02:53 AM
Schiff was prosecuted, I believe, for willful failure to file a tax return and I think I remember that as being in the early 80's.Willful failure to file is a misdemeanor but making a false statement on a tax return is a felony called tax evasion. All tax returns are signed by the taxpayer "under penalty of perjury". There are a lot of issues with the income tax, not the least of which is the assumption by the government that the taxpayer's labor has no value and therefore anything received as salary, commission, wages etc is income, the definition of which is a gain or profit. But in reality, it's an equal exchange, the value of which is set by the employer and employee when an employment agreement is entered into. So, in an equal exchange, there is no gain or profit, just two dissimilar things of equal value being exchanged. That tax concept is found in what is known as a 1031 tax free exchange in which 2 or more parties exchange commercial real estate of equal value with no tax consequences. Secondly, one becomes a taxpayer voluntarily by filling out the government withholding form at the time of employment, which is a request to the government for the status of taxpayer, assessing themselves and voluntarily paying a tax on their wages, salary, commission, etc. The American income tax is based on self assessment and voluntary compliance. That which is voluntary cannot be compulsory. One cannot be compelled to volunteer. What Schiff meant was that IRS agents don't have any more legal authority to levy assessments and/or seize property than any ordinary citizen, which is none, in the absence of a court order. And no such order could issue without notification and a hearing on the matter. The Income Tax is fatally flawed, riddled with provisions that if it were compulsory, it would be unconstitutional, and I've only brushed the surface. But you waive all that when you volunteer for withholding at the source, assess yourself and voluntarily file and pay the tax you assessed against yourself. Lots of Americans know this and file anyway, some don't want the hassle and some feel it's the right thing to do regardless of the legality of the Internal Revenue Code. Most people I know who do not file tax returns aren't trying to cheat the government. They just want the government to collect the money it needs to operate in a lawful way, without using fraudulent tactics and intimidation to do so. I think in the coming years, the income tax will be replaced with a national sales tax on articles of consumption with some exemptions for necessities, like food for instance. And that would be a lawfully enforceable tax well established historically and compulsory. IP: Logged |
mambo Knowflake Posts: 170 From: New Zealand Registered: Jun 2002
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posted August 21, 2002 07:19 PM
We have what is called GST (Goods & Service Tax) on all consumerables apart from food. It initially was 10% but was increased a few years back to 12.5%. We still have to PAYE tax as well but this has been revised, and you don't need to fill out tax forms anymore, they rely on the information your employer or yourself give them. The only time you receive mail from Inland Revenue is when you owe tax or are getting a rebate.If you earn over $50,000NZ a year the amount of tax you pay is less than someone earning $35 000,00. There are loopholes for the wealthy that the average earner can't access. IP: Logged |
Randall Webmaster Posts: 16464 From: Columbus, GA USA Registered: Nov 2000
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posted August 22, 2002 02:19 AM
Schiff was prosecuted for blank "Fifth Amendment" returns he filed before he learned of the voluntary nature of the income tax. He now files zero returns, since wages are not income and income has been defined as a "corporate profit," and he hasn't had the IRS dare to challenge his zero return yet. During his trial, Schiff was denied right to counsel and waw victim of a number of other illegal tactics by what he calls the Federal Mafia. ------------------ "Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark IP: Logged |