posted March 23, 2004 04:48 PM         

But don't worry, forgive them!

posted March 25, 2004 01:28 PM         

I've also read that Lilith has also been associated w/ mythical succubi -

This was taken from a Gilgamesh Prologue found:
"...a dragon had built its nest at the foot of the tree
the Zu-bird was raising its young in the crown,
and the demon Lilith had built her house in the middle...
Then the Zu-bird flew into the mountains
with its young,
while Lilith, petrified with fear,
tore down her house and fled into the wilderness"

posted March 25, 2004 03:06 PM         

But if Adam asked God for another woman how does that work. The first Lilith apparantly came as his twin they were connected by their backs. So Lilith was his equal. And Eve was taken from his rib which to me indicates that God basically pulled out Adams heart to create Eve and he's been angry and trying to get it back ever since.

I wonder who Adam's true love really is? If God created them seperately how could they be the same person? But it does seem like they are. One is immortal and one is not. Lilith mated with Satan so maybe this indicates how Eve can become a Godess like Lilith have her true power with the light and dark side. Their 2 halves joined together. Maybe that's the secret to immortality.

And if Isis' soul broke in two, I can understand and relate to this as a woman. But how does Osiris' being cut into 14 pieces relate to a man. How can I see this in a man today.

. Seeing as how Isis' soul broke in two when Osiris was cut into 14 pieces, and is thus destined to come back as 2 women every time he does ...

posted March 25, 2004 08:19 PM         

The stories have all under gone vast changes.
I think the movement towards a more empowered feminine figure such as Lillith (sans the lies and alterations) is a cultural backlash at the suppression of womankind's true powers and purposes, etc. Hopefully this will balance out. It really is remarkable in light of the same similarities which have faced women for so long (on the flipside with Isis) between being a man's mother (symbolically, for most of course) and his lover.

I don't necessarily think that the same rules apply to all women as do to Isis and probably Nephthys. If I recall correctly, after Osiris was cut up into 14 pieces, the legend states that all our souls (both men and women) were divided likewise. Supposedly, our soul pieces can incarnate in different people at the same time ... though you don't necessarily have 13 missing soul pieces all at the same time, of course. Everyone is different, and chooses/needs different things. I believe this also relates to the Saturn Seven Cycle, because it is thought that at those times your scattered soul pieces can choose to reunite, or you can choose to send more out, etc, among many other things. But I digress entirely ...

posted March 26, 2004 10:48 AM         

StarLover and Tink...Last I heard, the Dead Sea Scrolls were being kept by a group in Israel. According to archaeology, ancient texts and teachings were changed or destroyed for one reason...to control the populace in general. Think about the days before TV, radio, or motorized transportation and consider how a government would try to spread their power and propaganda. It was very difficult to control people who were widespread and illiterate. The most efficient way was to get people to WANT to do what the government said. There was absolutely no seperation between government and religion. So by making people think that they would be tortured for all eternity unless they followed certain laws, they were able to control much larger areas and numbers of people than they could have any other way. You don't need nearly as many law enforcement officials if people think everything they do or even think will be held against them by an all seeing, angry diety. Also, about 10,000 years ago, perhaps the most influential change of all time happened to humanity...agriculture. Prior to agriculture, women and men enjoyed roughly the same status in most cultures. The reason for this was simple...they were equally important in everyday life. Although the role of men in childbirth was not understood, there were reasons that men were just as important as women. When a group is living a hunter-gatherer lifestyle, the norm is for men to do more of the hunting and women to do more of the gathering. That is becuase it is not reasonable for mothers with young children to be involved in such a dangerous occupation and only women can give birth. Agriculture started out with domesticating animals and then came domesticating crops. Women could then provide all the meat and vegetable products needed for survival. Goddess cults erupted everywhere. Men became lesser citizens, becuase they were not needed as much as before. But agriculture also created another change. People no longer traveled on seasonal hunting and gathering rounds. They became more stationary. Plus the concept of wealth developed. People who grew or raised more than they needed could preserve and keep it for purposes of trade, etc. This gave men the new niche they needed to become equal again. Some men started raiding the stores of female groups, taking not only the goods, but also the women and children as slaves. Then each farming group desperately needed men to protect them from outside invaders. Men's societal value went from hunters to warriors. This changed everything. Over the centuries, women were slowly and thouroughly disenfranchised. Agriculture made it possible for cities and then countries to develop. So that brings us back to the beginning of this post. These large governing groups had to control widespread populations and they turned to religion as their method. They hadn't forgotten their lesson about keeping women under control lest they usurp the power of men and they sure as heck didn't want people to think they could find God within themselves or through their own efforts. They wanted people to think they had only one chance to do God's will (as approved by the government/religious union) and if they failed, they would be whipped by demons for all eternity.

posted March 26, 2004 01:04 PM         

As to the original post about Adam, sheesh, does he have a lot coming back to him!

Forgiveness is a virtue
hard to understand,
seldom found in woman
and never found in man.

posted March 26, 2004 07:32 PM         

The subject of what methods were used to subjugate people throughout time was addressed more in classes like Archaeological Theory and Prehistory of Religion.

posted March 26, 2004 10:20 PM         

http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_lilith_e.htm

http://www.ohav.org/discuss/_disc12/0000001d.htm