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Author Topic:   Dion Fortune, death and hell
Ayelet
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posted July 28, 2016 09:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ayelet     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I look for Dion Fortune's book "Through The Gates Of Death". It seems to be out of print. They sell it as an e-book, but I cannot put my info on the web. I am very curious as for what this lady has to say regarding the world beyond. I've seen some quotes from the book on youtube, and it appears she believes in hell, or some similar purifying place. As for that, I am not a believer. I believe in what Linda said, that the only hell we ever experience is upon Earth. Also Michael Newton's books and some others support the notion that the spirit world is a place of grace rather than attonement or punishment. Yes, we are judged. But the verdict for life takes place down here.

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Randall
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posted July 29, 2016 02:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Have you tried Amazion and eBay?

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Ayelet
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posted July 29, 2016 04:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ayelet     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
No I can't buy on the internet right now. But I tried to order it and they said it was out of print.

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Randall
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posted July 30, 2016 08:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'll keep an eye out.

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Ayelet
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posted July 31, 2016 03:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ayelet     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Randall. If you get a copy, I'd be happy to buy it from you...

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Randall
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posted August 01, 2016 04:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

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SDragon
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posted August 01, 2016 07:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SDragon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I did a google search for it and found something on scribd? It looks like the full book is available.

https://www.scribd.com/doc/11572146/dion-fortune-through-the-gates-of-death

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Ayelet
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posted August 01, 2016 08:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ayelet     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks SDragon, but I have to put there my credit info (on the internet) and I can't...

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SDragon
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posted August 01, 2016 08:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SDragon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That's strange, I'm reading it now, on page 29.

Her writing style seems early 21st century and no, she doesn't believe in hell. Her description so far is very much in line with new age belief in the Light being a place of peace and rest between lives.

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Ayelet
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posted August 02, 2016 05:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ayelet     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Interesting. That is the link to the video on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUD3EUSrCnY

It deals with the purgatory, and taken fron Dion's book.

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Randall
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posted August 03, 2016 03:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Available at no cost?

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Ayelet
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posted August 03, 2016 05:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ayelet     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
And it's rather short!

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Randall
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posted August 04, 2016 02:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sweet!

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Ayelet
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posted August 04, 2016 04:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ayelet     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I meant the video...
I haven't got the book yet.

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Randall
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posted August 05, 2016 03:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oh.

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Ayelet
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posted August 05, 2016 04:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ayelet     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sorry to dissappoint..
I would love SDragon to comment on the video, since he's reading the book and said Dion is writing there is no hell.. quite contradictory to what the video implies she writes.

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Randall
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posted August 06, 2016 10:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Indeed a difference.

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SDragon
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posted August 07, 2016 09:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SDragon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm not sure where those other passages were taken from but probably further along the book which I haven't come to yet. Earlier in the book on page 21, she writes:

"This intermediate stage between life and death is not the same thing as Purgatory. It is rather a landing-stage whereon the soul steps ashore and gathers together its baggage and greets its friends. Purgatory might be defined as a psychic quarantine. It is only after consciousness has accustomed itself to the disembodied life that the soul goes on to face the purification of Purgatory. Let it be clearly realized that Purgatory is not punitive, nor is it eternal, but consists in forcing the soul to face its own record. It is the reactions of the soul to that record which are the cleansing fires. Purgatory is not a place, but a state of consciousness; but cause, on the Innter Planes, all those with the same outlook draw together, Purgatory for all practical psychic purposes has a definite astral location."

Thus, to me it sounds more like her understanding of purgatory is more like the understood 'life review' that we go through once we pass the physical realm. Where we see the challenges we risen up to, the lessons learned and understood, the ones we didn't quite grasp and the ones we failed miserably at; the lives we affected either good or bad, etc.

I would need to read further to see how she defines hell but even in the video text, it states that while in purgatory we are in 'skilled hands'. So again her term purgatory seems to be different than the religious term which seems to imply an eternal limbo of sorts?

====================================

Chapter X is called Purgartory, reading it now and will share more once I finish it.

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Ayelet
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posted August 07, 2016 07:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ayelet     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi SDragon, thank you for sharing. I also understood Dion's description of purgatory as not an eternal hell. The passage you quoted clarifies things. It seems that this "life review" is a very intense experience. It doesn't sound like the quiet time in the library, the way Michael Newton presents it.

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Ayelet
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posted August 07, 2016 07:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ayelet     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Do you think one only suffers in the purgatory?

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Randall
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posted August 08, 2016 02:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Interesting!

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Randall
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posted August 09, 2016 05:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SDragon:
I'm not sure where those other passages were taken from but probably further along the book which I haven't come to yet. Earlier in the book on page 21, she writes:

"This intermediate stage between life and death is not the same thing as Purgatory. It is rather a landing-stage whereon the soul steps ashore and gathers together its baggage and greets its friends. Purgatory might be defined as a psychic quarantine. It is only after consciousness has accustomed itself to the disembodied life that the soul goes on to face the purification of Purgatory. Let it be clearly realized that Purgatory is not punitive, nor is it eternal, but consists in forcing the soul to face its own record. It is the reactions of the soul to that record which are the cleansing fires. Purgatory is not a place, but a state of consciousness; but cause, on the Innter Planes, all those with the same outlook draw together, Purgatory for all practical psychic purposes has a definite astral location."

Thus, to me it sounds more like her understanding of purgatory is more like the understood 'life review' that we go through once we pass the physical realm. Where we see the challenges we risen up to, the lessons learned and understood, the ones we didn't quite grasp and the ones we failed miserably at; the lives we affected either good or bad, etc.

I would need to read further to see how she defines hell but even in the video text, it states that while in purgatory we are in 'skilled hands'. So again her term purgatory seems to be different than the religious term which seems to imply an eternal limbo of sorts?

====================================

Chapter X is called Purgartory, reading it now and will share more once I finish it.


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Ayelet
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posted August 15, 2016 04:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ayelet     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Could I buy the book from you, SDragon?

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SDragon
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posted August 16, 2016 12:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SDragon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't have the book Ayelet, I'm reading it from the scribd.com link that I posted earlier, but I'm not sure why it doesn't work for you.

From the Chapter X: Purgatory

"The soul, forced to contemplate these, undergoes a struggle severe in proportion to its deviation from the spiritual standards. Nothing explains these states so well as the terminology of analytical psychology. The soul is in the throes of a conflict between its higher and lower aspects. This conflict is subjective and expresses itself in the imagery of the astral dream, and the soul is said to be in purgatory. For purgatory is simply the forced realisation of the significance of our own misdeeds. Its scenery, so often described by saints and psychics is such stuff as dreams are made of, the dreams of souls forced to face the truth.

...

Each individual soul is taught by these dream-pictures that sin brings inevitable suffering, for it is shown the consequences of its wickedness or folly and may not turn away its eyes. It feels in imagination as it would feel if it had actually come to the state which its dreams depict. Sysyphus the ambitious rolls his eternal stone up the hill and may not rest; Tantalus the drunkard sees the cup recede from his lips. Thus each learns the vanity of his weakness.

The initiate has never believed in the appalling doctrine of eternal punishment. No psychic has ever confirmed this belief, no spirit returned from beyond the grave has ever reported it. What is there any man could do in the brief spell between birth and death to deserve it? But every spirit reports purgatory and has a wholesome respect for it.

...

Can we not readily understand how the atmosphere made by all the souls at present out of incarnation who are struggling with thwarted hate or unsatiated lust, would mould the scenery of Hell out of the plastic astral ether?

All those who hate, all those who lust, congregate together, and it is largely the cumulative atmosphere that they make between them which causes the abreation of the higher type of soul, the soul that has possibilities of redemption. The minor transgression, which appears venial enough in ourselves, looks very different when we find ourselves in the midst of a sphere where innumerable souls are carrying it to all extremes and we have to live in its atmosphere. Indulgence in the sins of the flesh, which may not appear so bad when it is being done by a single person in an otherwise clean environment, will soon nauseate even its most hardened habitue when he is compelled to practise his chosen vice in the company with thousands of others who are all doing exactly the same thing, and is not allowed to stop when he has had enough, because the irresistible momentum carries him on willy-nilly.

If, however, a soul has largely risen above its weaknesses during life, or if it is not very deeply imbued by them, its visit to the purgatorial fiery whirlpool will be brief, for its struggle to resist the current will soon cause it to be thrown out upon the bank, free."


========================================================

Her description is fairly vivid and imposes a more experiential purgatory than what one might think of when they hear 'life review'. She seems to believe that the astral mental etheric enmeshment of the soul continues to be played out in this review of purgatory until one becomes 'sick' or 'repulsed' by that enmeshment itself. I'm not quite sure I believe that, but I definitely could see how certain astral mental enmeshment would need to be 'purified' by showing the resulting harm to the soul and others that was caused from them.

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Ayelet
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posted August 17, 2016 01:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ayelet     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you SDragon! I have finally succeeded and read the whole book from the link you left me! It was very interesting. It sounds reasonable that the soul dreams.. and it may be that such a purgatory exist, I don't know.. I guess it is better to be prepared for such a possibility. It says nothing about all this in Newton's books. But perhaps it gives an aspect of the after-life which is not explored in Newton's books.

Anyhow, thanks to you I've read the book! So thanks!

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