posted April 01, 2003 02:31 AM              

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I just heard that a van of women and children in Iraq were blown up, after they failed to stop their vehicle for soldiers. This breaks my heart. I worry that this war is going to breed more violence? I think an orphan of war could make a perfect terrorist one day... sadly enough. What do you all think?

Jax

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posted April 01, 2003 05:36 AM            

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jjjax..sadly I think that is exactly what is happening.. My gut tells me we are just creating a whole new generation of suicide bombers...

It's terrible..
and the media says that the soldiers who opened fire on the bus of women and children were being 'restrained'..
And then they say how when the suicide bombers attack the military convoy that there is 'terrorism' on the battlefield..
It seems an oxymoron (sp?) to me..
From my perspective, war is terrorism with the veil of psuedo-legitimacy.

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posted April 01, 2003 06:49 AM              

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I don't blame the soldiers for shooting. They shouted for them to stop, and their reaction was such in light of the suicide bombing incident . So terribly meaningless. It all ties so neatly into this endless circle of Karma. Violence begets violence. Its just not an answer. Coming from a country where one humble little man spurred millions of people on to oust the Bristish and win independence without inciting any bloodshed, I will never be able to accept the 'there-is-no-other-option' argument. Seek, and you shall find.

Aquamoon

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posted April 01, 2003 07:54 AM              

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Nice Aquamoon, very nice

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posted April 01, 2003 01:16 PM            

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posted April 01, 2003 07:14 PM              

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Harpyr, I feel so strongly that something terrible is manifesting out of this mess!

aquamoon, yes these suicide car bombings are pretend serenaders are terrible... it must be difficult for the soldiers to know what to do. Seek and you shall find... yes aquamoon, well said.

Jax

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posted April 01, 2003 07:51 PM              

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Harpyr, I feel so strongly that something terrible is manifesting out of this mess!

aquamoon, yes these suicide car bombings are pretend serenaders are terrible... it must be difficult for the soldiers to know what to do. Seek and you shall find... yes aquamoon, well said.

Jax

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posted April 02, 2003 12:52 AM              

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------------------
food is the only art that nourishes!

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posted April 02, 2003 01:02 AM              

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That is a very beautiful & optimistic way to view our world, but it's hard for some of us to have that kind of faith in some of the more villanious people in power

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posted April 02, 2003 07:35 AM              

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LL, I'm afraid we must agree to disagree. But that's okay, isn't it? I'm just pleased to note that your responses, to my posts at least, are respectful. I've got no problem with your point of view if you can continue to express it civilly.

Just a word of advice from one well meaning Leo to another .... learn to be more tolerant of people who have a different point of view from yours. There's black, there's white ... and then there's tonnes and tonnes of grey!

Aquamoon

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posted April 02, 2003 10:26 AM              

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While I certainly would never advocate randomly killing innocent civilians, I don't feel this was random. Do not judge people, especially troops in a war zone, until you have walked in their shoes.

Violence does indeed beget violence. If, yesterday, someone randomly drove up and blew away 4 of your closest friends, allies, co-workers. The people that you work, sleep, eat, and suffer with (you know, like family). Then today, while doing your job someone came speeding towards you - you yelled stop, you yelled for them to turn around, you "threatned" to shoot, and they just kept coming at you. Would you just stand around and let yourself be killed?

Sorry, I don't believe that. The will to live is too strong.

And, please let's not forget, that Sadam's Commando troops are dressed at "innocent" civilians" as well.

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posted April 02, 2003 05:48 PM              

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Aqua, thanx I'll try to keep it diplomatic...

I'm actually a very open-minded person, I listen to all the the arguments in class & they often change my opinion... But they have formulated systematic arguments based usually on facts or something meritable, and offer solutions. Not Criticize, which is all that's usually done in these forums, usually as a defensive argument.

So if they said it like you do, that's great!
But if they say in the form of an ignorant statement, without facts, that criticizes without offering a solution then I will knock them off their pedastal, and they will fall hard.

It's easy to knock me off mine to, people do it in class all the time when I make a bad statement or rushed judgment, they can do it here too

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posted April 02, 2003 05:53 PM              

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Well I heard on the news today that the driver of the car was instructed not to stop by Iraqi authorities (threatening harm to his family). Supposedly the soldiers told them to stop verbally and by using their hands a few times and then even shot at the radiator on the car before opening fire on them. Either way it's just sad all around.

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posted April 02, 2003 06:26 PM            

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war is terrible for everyone.

Or atleast it should be..I wonder sometimes, what with the way the leaders talk about the strategy of it like it's a game or something, just how terrible it is for them. Makes me ill that of the few people who have ordered this war..almost all of them dodged having to see the face of death themselves.
But that's been the case since war began..kings sending the peasants off to die to fulfill their materialistic desires.
When will it end?

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posted April 02, 2003 07:58 PM              

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Well actually many kings did not just send the peasants to go fight in war, they themselves also went into battle.

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posted April 02, 2003 08:14 PM            

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Well, our king certainly did not....

He failed to report to duty for a year and a half and escaped the brig because of who his daddy was....

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posted April 02, 2003 08:22 PM              

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It seems all that you do is bash Bush. He's this that and the other thing.........well I guess when we have perfect people we'll have perfect leaders.

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posted April 02, 2003 08:52 PM            

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That's true..
Americans are some of the least educated people amongst civilized nations (It hurts me to say that because I do love this country but it's like when a family member is doing something that you think is wrong..you must point out that wrong but it doesn't mean you love them any less..in fact the reason one goes to the trouble to point it out is because of love.)
so it serves to reason that we "elect" a poorly educated leader.

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posted April 02, 2003 09:47 PM              

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oh dear

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posted April 02, 2003 11:31 PM            

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I didn't mean that to sound as harsh as it maybe did..

I'm not saying that we all need to be perfect but I am saying that people need to start worrying less about who's going to win American Idol or what video game to buy and start paying more attention to things that really matter.
Nor am I asking for our leaders to be perfect but I would hope that they possess a certain amount of understanding of world affairs...like the names of the leaders of countries that possess nuclear weapons, for one and an ability to read and comprehend the briefings that are placed on one's desk every morning.

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posted April 02, 2003 11:41 PM              

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(Sigh) forget it Harpyr, you missed my point again.

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posted April 03, 2003 01:51 AM            

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sorry...

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posted April 03, 2003 02:11 AM            

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The reason I bash bush is because I feel to be silent in the face of injustice is to be complacent.
For the sake of future generations, humanity cannot afford to be complacent any longer in the face of such extraordinary greed possessing a small number of humanity, threatening to destroy our entire precious, sacred planet.

That may sound extreme to some, but from where I'm standing I see, and many others like me see, the inevitable results of the agenda that the richest 1% of people in this country push, will be the total destruction of our enviroment.

I do other things besides just complain, really ..I recognize that coming up with an alternative vision for the future is essential.
But that does not detract from the need to pull away the false guise of legitimacy the current administration has wrapped around itself.

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posted April 03, 2003 01:33 PM              

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Harpyr, you say you love our country... BUT

You bash everything about it!

Maybe you should relocate to Canada???
You kinda already sound like a Canadian

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posted April 03, 2003 01:41 PM            

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Boy Lost Leo,
For someone who espouses such pride in getting an education, I would have expected something more thought out than that canned argument.
I've stated before that I love this country, this is my home and I won't abandon it to be destroyed by the greedy ambitions of a few.
I am a patriot, whether or not you may believe that.
I think it's sad how people forget that this country was founded by a bunch of dissenters who overthrew the greedy elite. Too often people seem to equate love of one's country with obedience.

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