posted August 18, 2003 04:54 PM            

Other than protecting our lives and property, protecting our Constitutional rights and providing equal justice for all citizens under the law, just what is it the Constitution requires the government to do for us?

Most of us don't want the government to do a damned thing for us except get the hell out of our way and stay the hell out of our way so we can take care of ourselves.

What makes you think the President is responsible for the failure of the power grid systems? There are reports going back to the early 90's warning of potential failures of the power systems and the resulting blackouts. Clinton didn't spend a dime on the system and his Energy Secretary, Bill Richardson said a few days ago that the power grids weren't on Clinton's radar screen for the 8 years he was President.

This is part of a speech Bush made to Congress about 6 weeks into his Presidency:

March 5, 2001
"Our energy demand outstrips our supply. We can produce more energy at home while protecting our environment, and we must. We can produce more electricity to meet demand, and we must. We can promote alternative energy sources and conservation, and we must. America must become more energy independent, and we will," Bush said.

The President's energy bill is bottled up in the Senate by the hypocritical Dimocrats, and has been for some time. Dimocrats who don't want any additional sources of energy developed while at the same time whining about US energy dependence.

N_wEvil

Huh?

Guess with that outlook, you don't bother to vote.

posted August 18, 2003 05:32 PM            

N_wEvil

Excuse me, but I was under the impression the system of government in Britain is a
parliamentary democracy with a Constitutional Monarch, (the Queen).

Suggest you exercise your right to vote or refrain from whining later when Britain is swallowed up by the EU and you find yourself ruled over by a bunch of unelected socialist bureaucrats.

posted August 18, 2003 05:49 PM              

So its a bit like the US then? oh oops, i forgot - your leaders were unlected because they couldn't count their votes properly! heehee.

posted August 18, 2003 05:56 PM            

The 60's,70's,80's,90's and now! There has been more Republicans in office during that period of time,then their was Demorcrats. I know,that too was Clinton's fault,everything is Clinton's fault,even when Nixon got busted,it was Clinton that did it,when he was only 20. But the truth of the matter is that this problem with our electric has gone on during the same amount of time and not one President,NOT ONE has done a damn thing about it! This holds still true about the bureaucrats and lobbyist of major corperations like (Mobil and Exxon)that buy out the elections of the financial support of the deligated ballots that boil up and topple onto the floor into as the form of worthless "CHADS" just to appease the favor of the RICH threw tax-breaks and surplus-bonuses to the far,few and the priviledged! To really socome to the promise that our for-fathers have granted to ALL the people within that dying piece of paper called "The Constitution" to bring Liberty,Peace and the pursuit of Happiness,is yet to be seen in our generation for the average American!

With this money that's being saved by the one's that can truely afford having it,the real question is not "Where is all this money coming from?" it is......

WHERE IS ALL OUR MONEY GOING?!

posted August 18, 2003 07:30 PM            

You've had a lot of choices in life and will have many more. You and you alone are responsible for whatever position you find yourself in both now and in the future.

Perhaps you're unaware of this fact and it sure sounds like you are but no poor person ever gave anyone a job. Those "evil" corporations you seem to despise are responsible for producing the pie you want the government to divvy up (in your favor of course) instead of getting out and making your own.

Those Presidents you make reference to, Republicans, have attempted at every turn to reduce the size and scope of government and reduce the tax load everyone is expected to pay. The US government is the largest employer in the world and in my opinion produces on a level that I would rather see the money consigned to the nearest rathole.

Guess you never heard but there were 5 or 6 vote recounts in Florida and Algore lost every one. Even with massive voter fraud, illegal aliens and felons voting for Algore, he still lost. Even with cheating by Algore operatives during the recounts, Algore still lost the recounts. Which only proves that Algore isn't smart enough to be President and almost everyone in America is damned glad he isn't given the events of 9/11. We did find out one important fact as a result of all that ballot scrutiny 87% of felons who voted illegally voted for Algore.

If you got your news from reliable sources you'd know that the Florida election results were certified exactly as Florida law requires and that the US Supreme Court made the only decision possible under the prevailing laws, namely that there could be no more ballot recounts in Florida because the standards proposed by the Algore camp allowed for different standards for determining the voters intent when they cast their ballots. In fact, determining the voters intent was open to interpretation so all those underballots and overballots, all those hanging chads, dimpled chads and unpunched chads could not be counted. In spite of all that, there were chads all over the floor in some Dimocrat districts as Algore folks simply punched them out---for Algore of course. Algore lost, get over it.

Now, as for the preamble to the Constitution that you quoted in part, the preamble guarantees you nothing----not Life which is subject to chance or Happiness which is up to you to produce and not Liberty either. In fact, it isn't government which is being said to grant those rights, it's God who endowed all men (women too) with those rights. So says the preamble.

Something else you need to get over is the fact America is a Capitalist country with a Capitalist economy driven by production and the proper utilization of capital. Businesses exist to make a profit and when government makes that impossible, they will flee or close their doors. I can't understand why some people are envious of success instead of working hard to be successful themselves. I guess it's always easier to blame someone else. I wonder how some people account for the growing numbers of millionaires in America. Most of them from the operation of their own small businesses, having nothing to do whatsoever with big evil corporations.

posted August 18, 2003 07:39 PM            

bother to vote at all? It's all fixed isn't it, rigged elections, the illusion of freedom of choice? Why get yourself all hot and bothered over something that you couldn't possibly influence with your vote?

posted August 19, 2003 03:18 AM            

What do you think,people dream while they're children that they want to live the rest of their lives in poverty,have you EVER been on the streets,do you really think that it's all easy and that it's OK? Do you really know what it's really like,if you do,you would never say any of this,I'm glad you realize that it's a RATHOLE,becuase your not the only one that thinks that,just from a different veiw then yours.

You also talk about aliens and felons? Who makes all of this happen,who makes the prisons and runs them,who makes the arrests why does it seem like law enforcement is at such a high when crime by stats is on such a low,or are the arrests just going unreported? Why are drugs from other countries taking this country by storm? How are these drugs coming into this country,even. Do you really think that Mexicans and Afgans just waltz right in and the government knows it and it's all GOOD? I don't know,maybe.

OK,you say "to reduce the size of government"? Yeah,when you can turn around and just simply call it "States Rights" and what part of the government got reduced,may I ask,the one that has a Military streached out thin so far around the world,that is under the threat of dictators,terrorists and other underground organizations to even overwhelm our vast technology,has come as far as to even create something as of 9/11 to strike out for when you know that it was a matter of time that it would reach us and it did?

You say,"Algore still lost the recounts. Which only proves that Algore isn't smart enough to be President and almost everyone in America is damned glad he isn't given the events of 9/11"oh,now they hand out terrorist acts to certain parties to our government,well that's interesting!!!LOL So,I guess Bush gets the 9/11,because all of this was PREORDAINED??!!That is what are government does to the US citizens to get the ball rolling to the road of success and Al Gore couldn't deal with it,so they elected Bush to do the job,at least to be the proper figurehead to make the move towards their own personal interests and what about the victims of 9/11,do they get anything other than a memorial? Do you believe that a giving to the families is a way that they would want,only minutes before they were to die in the most horrible way imaginable? This is not "American Policy",this is a SACRIFICIAL RITUAL! Why don't you tell THEM to get over it?

Tax Reductions for everybody,that's some BS,yeah,everybody that is wealthy they get everything taken off for them,when the rest are stuck with the payments and nothing back!
From bottom towards moving up in the classes:"More you make,the more they take."
From top looking to the bottom of it all:"The more you got the less you give." Why do you people believe that all of this is derived from envy? Maybe rich people envy eachother for what they have,but down here we try to survive each day with the little that we got and then you wonder why people even commit crime,when your down their(in desperation)you don't really have much of a choice,your screwed and you GOT TO DO SOMETHING! We got a deficit that could have been resolved,but that didn't happen,they killed the surplus!
WHO GETS LEFT WITH THIS BILL?! Not you I gather,you don't have to worry about it,WE DO! You know that people have problems out their and no it's not your problem,you think,but in the long run,your making an example of yourself and people see it and more of the less,they ARE believing in us less and less! Could you blame them?

You know,it is not envy that drives me....

posted August 19, 2003 03:39 AM            

Now I know why the Mid-east wants a Jehod,they go to God,not you or the US for any rights!

Thanks for bringing that to my attention,like you did for them,I'm much obliged!

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare(OMG,that's not a Republican word), and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Those damned dimorcrats,always got something to say!

So,where did you get your Constitution knowledge JW, from Hitler's "Mein Kampf"?

posted August 19, 2003 12:37 PM            

Strange that in the wealthiest nation on earth there would be some who cannot see the opportunities all around them. Guess it takes immigrants to fully appreciate the miracle of America.

Since you've chosen to grab the ball of financial failure and run downhill with it, here's some sites that will help you reach the bottom faster. They'll tie up your time and reinforce the mistaken belief that the situation is hopeless and if you believe it's hopeless----then for you, it is.
http://www.serendipity.li/wtc.html
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/02_11_02_lucy.html
http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=12536
http://www.thenation.com/capitalgames/index.mhtml?bid=3&pid=66
http://www.buildfreedom.com/portal/category.php/20

http://www.workers.org/wwp.php
http://www.cpusa.org/

Should you decide to go the other way, here's some information on a guy, Robert Allen who has been challenged by the press to put his ideas about creating wealth into action.

"Robert G. Allen graduated with an MBA degree and couldn’t find a job. They started investing in real estate, with little or no money down-because that is all he had-which eventually lead him to pen the best-selling real estate book in American publishing history, aptly entitled "Nothing Down.

To prove his point, he challenged the press, “Send me to any city in America, take away my wallet, give me $100 dollars for living expenses, and within 72 hours, I will purchase a property with no money down.” note (*which he promptly rented out or fixed and resold for a higher price) note *(he's responded to numerous challenges with the same result)

The Los Angeles Times took him up on the challenge and sent him to San Francisco. Within 57 hours, Allen had purchased 7 properties, worth $722,715 with no money down. Four other best-selling books followed, while Allen simultaneously trained 1,000,000 people nationwide, many of them millionaires today!"

The idea that wealth is a zero sum game (fixed amount available) and in order to get your share, you must first take it away from someone else or cheat your way to the top is utter nonsense.

Yep, no question Ozonefiller, I'm a Nazi. No one has a right to a living at the expense of others. You are responsible for yourself and your own situation. It's absolutely laughable that you quote from the Preamble to support your contention the founders favored a government "welfare system". That "promote the general welfare" statement doesn't speak to "individual welfare"---transfer of wealth from one citizen to another through confiscation of money or property but rather it speaks to promoting the general welfare of the US and all it's citizens. It does not contemplate the government handing out money to individual citizens. George Washington, James Madison, James Monroe, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin et al. would laugh in your face for suggesting the US government should be an instrument for redistributing wealth.

By the way, the phrase "secure the blessings of Liberty" is not found in the Constitution but in the Preamble to the Constitution. You're mixing parts of the Declaration of Independence and the Preamble to the Constitution when you talk about rights granted---"life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness," all rights the framers asserted were given by God------as the natural order of the Universe.

jwhop

posted August 19, 2003 04:09 PM            

However,you still miss the point! Why the hELL should we ever pay a company threw taxes that we don't have,when we already pay bills for electic,you know bills?(you'll understand once you move out of your parents house)And they're billion dollar rich,plus with a tax break? What,being rich is not enough,are they going for the key to Heaven too? Is this a rip-off or what?

posted August 19, 2003 04:17 PM            

I suppose camping out on some websites is OK for those who wish to let someone else's paranoia into their subconscious where it kicks around until it colors every aspect of their being but it isn't for me.

As for the Communists who have destroyed every nation where they have come to power and who wish to abolish America, you already know what I think about them.

jwhop

posted August 19, 2003 06:15 PM            

No, I don't think you're asking me for money. I don't think anyone is "coming after me" and being mugged isn't high on the list of things I worry about. I don't resent anyone getting a free education but I do resent paying for the education they didn't get. I'm not 21, hung over or living with my parents either. I've never thought about saving the world after I found out the world doesn't want to be saved. That college educated drug pusher you talked about would be executed in my Universe. The poison he's peddling is just as deadly as arsenic, it just kills more slowly and kills the whole being, physically, intellectually and spiritually.

I think you and I should have a conversation, but one topic at a time---deal?

Those utility companies you talk about are corporations which are owned by their stockholders. They are not billionaires, indeed their ownership is made up of thousands, even hundreds of thousands of small stock investors along with pension funds and mutual funds which are managing the retirement funds for millions of working people and retirees across a broad spectrum of Americans. For instance, Consolidated Edison has 214.8 million shares of stock outstanding and of that, 213.4 million shares are owned by stock investors, mutual fund investors and pension funds. There is no "they" who are billionaires.

I am not in favor of the federal government paying to upgrade the utility grids. Since each state has a Public Utilities Commission that sets the utility rates, the companies should go to the PUC and ask for a rate increase in the basic electricity rates to pay for upgrading the systems and all that rate increase should be plowed into the projects. Could be they already have asked for a rate increase and been turned down or perhaps they spent the rate increase on other things----like paying dividends to their stockholders. If that's the case, they should be prosecuted.

We'll talk about buying property with no money down another time but I will say it's done every day, by people with no credit or even bad credit. It's just a matter of knowing how and that's something you don't learn at the University.

jwhop

posted August 20, 2003 02:01 AM              

whoa.

*stays out of thread*

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where i end and you begin there's a gap in between there's a gap where we meet where i end and you begin
and i'm sorry for us the dinosaurs roam the earth the sky turns green where i end and you begin