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Author Topic:   Christian Fundamentalism influencing U.S. policy towards Israel?
Harpyr
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From: Alaska
Registered: Jun 2010

posted May 03, 2004 02:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Harpyr     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
COMMENTARY-

Their beliefs are bonkers, but they are at the heart of power

US Christian fundamentalists are driving Bush's Middle East policy

George Monbiot
Tuesday April 20, 2004
The Guardian

To understand what is happening in the Middle East, you must first understand what is happening in Texas. To understand what is happening there, you should read the resolutions passed at the state's Republican party conventions last month. Take a look, for example, at the decisions made in Harris County, which covers much of Houston.
The delegates began by nodding through a few uncontroversial matters: homosexuality is contrary to the truths ordained by God; "any mechanism to process, license, record, register or monitor the ownership of guns" should be repealed; income tax, inheritance tax, capital gains tax and corporation tax should be abolished; and immigrants should be deterred by electric fences. Thus fortified, they turned to the real issue: the affairs of a small state 7,000 miles away. It was then, according to a participant, that the "screaming and near fist fights" began.

I don't know what the original motion said, but apparently it was "watered down significantly" as a result of the shouting match. The motion they adopted stated that Israel has an undivided claim to Jerusalem and the West Bank, that Arab states should be "pressured" to absorb refugees from Palestine, and that Israel should do whatever it wishes in seeking to eliminate terrorism. Good to see that the extremists didn't prevail then.

But why should all this be of such pressing interest to the people of a state which is seldom celebrated for its fascination with foreign affairs? The explanation is slowly becoming familiar to us, but we still have some difficulty in taking it seriously.

In the United States, several million people have succumbed to an extraordinary delusion. In the 19th century, two immigrant preachers cobbled together a series of unrelated passages from the Bible to create what appears to be a consistent narrative: Jesus will return to Earth when certain preconditions have been met. The first of these was the establishment of a state of Israel. The next involves Israel's occupation of the rest of its "biblical lands" (most of the Middle East), and the rebuilding of the Third Temple on the site now occupied by the Dome of the Rock and al-Aqsa mosques. The legions of the antichrist will then be deployed against Israel, and their war will lead to a final showdown in the valley of Armageddon. The Jews will either burn or convert to Christianity, and the Messiah will return to Earth.

What makes the story so appealing to Christian fundamentalists is that before the big battle begins, all "true believers" (ie those who believe what they believe) will be lifted out of their clothes and wafted up to heaven during an event called the Rapture. Not only do the worthy get to sit at the right hand of God, but they will be able to watch, from the best seats, their political and religious opponents being devoured by boils, sores, locusts and frogs, during the seven years of Tribulation which follow.

The true believers are now seeking to bring all this about. This means staging confrontations at the old temple site (in 2000, three US Christians were deported for trying to blow up the mosques there), sponsoring Jewish settlements in the occupied territories, demanding ever more US support for Israel, and seeking to provoke a final battle with the Muslim world/Axis of Evil/United Nations/ European Union/France or whoever the legions of the antichrist turn out to be.


The believers are convinced that they will soon be rewarded for their efforts. The antichrist is apparently walking among us, in the guise of Kofi Annan, Javier Solana, Yasser Arafat or, more plausibly, Silvio Berlusconi. The Wal-Mart corporation is also a candidate (in my view a very good one), because it wants to radio-tag its stock, thereby exposing humankind to the Mark of the Beast.

By clicking on www.raptureready.com, you can discover how close you might be to flying out of your pyjamas. The infidels among us should take note that the Rapture Index currently stands at 144, just one point below the critical threshold, beyond which the sky will be filled with floating nudists. Beast Government, Wild Weather and Israel are all trading at the maximum five points (the EU is debat ing its constitution, there was a freak hurricane in the south Atlantic, Hamas has sworn to avenge the killing of its leaders), but the second coming is currently being delayed by an unfortunate decline in drug abuse among teenagers and a weak showing by the antichrist (both of which score only two).

We can laugh at these people, but we should not dismiss them. That their beliefs are bonkers does not mean they are marginal. American pollsters believe that 15-18% of US voters belong to churches or movements which subscribe to these teachings. A survey in 1999 suggested that this figure included 33% of Republicans. The best-selling contemporary books in the US are the 12 volumes of the Left Behind series, which provide what is usually described as a "fictionalised" account of the Rapture (this, apparently, distinguishes it from the other one), with plenty of dripping details about what will happen to the rest of us. The people who believe all this don't believe it just a little; for them it is a matter of life eternal and death.

And among them are some of the most powerful men in America. John Ashcroft, the attorney general, is a true believer, so are several prominent senators and the House majority leader, Tom DeLay. Mr DeLay (who is also the co-author of the marvellously named DeLay-Doolittle Amendment, postponing campaign finance reforms) travelled to Israel last year to tell the Knesset that "there is no middle ground, no moderate position worth taking".

So here we have a major political constituency - representing much of the current president's core vote - in the most powerful nation on Earth, which is actively seeking to provoke a new world war. Its members see the invasion of Iraq as a warm-up act, as Revelation (9:14-15) maintains that four angels "which are bound in the great river Euphrates" will be released "to slay the third part of men". They batter down the doors of the White House as soon as its support for Israel wavers: when Bush asked Ariel Sharon to pull his tanks out of Jenin in 2002, he received 100,000 angry emails from Christian fundamentalists, and never mentioned the matter again.

The electoral calculation, crazy as it appears, works like this. Governments stand or fall on domestic issues. For 85% of the US electorate, the Middle East is a foreign issue, and therefore of secondary interest when they enter the polling booth. For 15% of the electorate, the Middle East is not just a domestic matter, it's a personal one: if the president fails to start a conflagration there, his core voters don't get to sit at the right hand of God. Bush, in other words, stands to lose fewer votes by encouraging Israeli aggression than he stands to lose by restraining it. He would be mad to listen to these people. He would also be mad not to.

· George Monbiot's book The Age of Consent: a Manifesto for a New World Order is now published in paperback
www.monbiot.com

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The role of religion is to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable. :::P.T. Barnum

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Randall
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From: The Goober Galaxy
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posted May 03, 2004 03:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
All religion aside, I feel that Israel has a right to protect its streets from terrorism. Some of their neighbors only understand death and violence. There will never be Peace in that land until those extremists are gone from the equation. Sad and vicious and violent...but true nonetheless.

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"Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark

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pidaua
Knowflake

Posts: 67
From: Back in AZ with Bear the Leo
Registered: Apr 2009

posted May 03, 2004 03:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for pidaua     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I agree completely with Randall and let's not forget another group that has a HUGE interest in protecting Israel as a homeland - the US Jewish population also has a stake in protecting Israel, as well they should since it a very significant place to the Jewish culture and religion.

I am sure that there are a few wacked out groups that want to use the pro Israel stance to see if the scripture is true about the rapture coming when Israel is at peace..but that is such a small minority.

I understand your passion Harpyr, but to correlate the small mindedness of a group of nutbars to what is pushing or motivating Bush and others to push for peace in the Mid East is just..well, crazy - irresponsible. No where in that document did I see any real statistics or factual citations. Instead the references were:

"American pollsters believe that 15-18% of US voters belong to churches or movements which subscribe to these teachings. A survey in 1999 suggested that this figure included 33% of Republicans."


****Which Pollsters? Agnostics R Us? Wehatechristians.com Bushsucks.com?


"In the United States, several million people have succumbed to an extraordinary delusion. In the 19th century, two immigrant preachers cobbled together a series of unrelated passages from the Bible to create what appears to be a consistent narrative: Jesus will return to Earth when certain preconditions have been met. The first of these was the establishment of a state of Israel."

**** First off, is this based on the rapture website run by crazy people, or is it inside the brain or Mr. Manibot the guy promoting his book? Who are the immigrant preachers? Several Million huh? Out of 200 Million..so even if there was say...7 Million loonies that would represent what? 3.5% of the total population thus making them of the smallest minority groups in the US. Must be nice to be such a small yet powerfully wacky group.

Maybe he has credible sources buried within the confines of his book but they are not listed here, so as far as I am concerned this is just plan slander of not only Bush, but of Christians. I am a Christian and I can tell you this, not one time did I ever have a sermon or a bible study where this kind of crap was discussed. As far as my church and the community was concerned, there was a sympathy for the Israelies and all Jewish people that were losing their lives and homeland over this battle. If there was any motivation at all it was to help our fellow man - so I guess even that is evil now.

How ridiculous - this should be sent to Bill O'Reilly so he can use it on his talking points as the most Ridiculous Item of the Day!

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Randall
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From: The Goober Galaxy
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posted May 03, 2004 04:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The other day, Palestinians opened fire on an Israeli car that had only a pregnant mother and her four small children in it. They didn't stop there. They then filled the car with bullets at close range. This is what Israel is dealing with on a daily basis.

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"Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark

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Harpyr
Newflake

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From: Alaska
Registered: Jun 2010

posted May 03, 2004 05:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Harpyr     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
yes, but make no mistake, it's the same thing that Palestinians in the occupied territories must endure every day. Homes bulldozed over, children used as target practice by the Israeli army and people murdered at checkpoints.

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The role of religion is to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable. :::P.T. Barnum

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ozonefiller
Newflake

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Registered: Aug 2009

posted May 04, 2004 01:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ozonefiller     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You messed up on the URL of the raptureready.com Harpyr.

Here's the example, "[URL=http://www.raptureready.com,]

You've put a comma at the end of ".com",and that's why it doesn't work,you got to remove it in order to make that work.

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ozonefiller
Newflake

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posted May 04, 2004 09:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ozonefiller     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Don't you just love it Harpyr when all those who favor The Bush Admistration goes to those who just might question it as "crazy - irresponsible"?!

...but what do I know, the last time I checked, John Ashcroft just so happened to be an active Pentecostal,right? ...or maybe I'm just being "crazy - irresponsible"! For listening to the news(you know how we get,we're silly like that,sometimes).

The last thing that the admistration wants people to think is for some TV solgan with one of those crazy nutbars jumping on a tabletop shouting on the top of his lungs stating: "IF YOU DON'T VOTE FOR BUSH THIS YEAR,JEEEESUS IS GONNA COME RIGHT DOWN FROM HEAVEN AND WHOOP YOUR BUTT WITH AN IRON ROD!"

AMEN

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Harpyr
Newflake

Posts: 0
From: Alaska
Registered: Jun 2010

posted May 04, 2004 11:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Harpyr     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
"IF YOU DON'T VOTE FOR BUSH THIS YEAR,JEEEESUS IS GONNA COME RIGHT DOWN FROM HEAVEN AND WHOOP YOUR BUTT WITH AN IRON ROD!"

Gosh I hate it when that happens.

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The role of religion is to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable. :::P.T. Barnum

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Isis
Newflake

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From: Brisbane, Australia
Registered: May 2009

posted May 04, 2004 01:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Isis     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
*edit* Wrong thread...

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“The good things which belong to prosperity are to be wished, but the good things that belong to adversity are to be admired.” Seneca

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Isis
Newflake

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From: Brisbane, Australia
Registered: May 2009

posted May 04, 2004 01:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Isis     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I find it interesting that people who are into alternative religion or agnostic/atheist will bash Christians without compunction, and fail to see the irony, that they would not tolerate criticising or ridicule of their goddess worship, or buddism, or their lack of religion, but they will criticize and/or ridicule Christians, or attempt to lump them all under the monniker of "fundamentalist" in order to portray them as "crazy" and the like.

Israel does not do target practice on children. Children who, I might add, should be in schoool, are out throwing rocks at them, terrorists use them to block buildings they're in, and they're used as "martyrs" for the cause when sacrificed on the alter of propoganda ("Israel killed another child, news at 11)...

The Israeli army does not go into cafes and murder Palestinians at random, men women and children alike.

I think both sides have some serious malfunctions, but that doesn't justify crap.

The reality is IMO, the Palestinians refuse to accept the fact that Israel is there to stay, and with the dual Arab/Jewish "eye-for-an-eye" philosophy, it's just an endless cycle - add to that atrocities committed on both sides (Palestine since the 60s, Israel mainly upon its inception in the 40s and before) - and the fact that they refuse to compromise on who controls Jerusalem (the Dome of the Rock specifically), which, with right of return has been a deal breaker in the past - well, it's like expecting two Taurus' with opposing desires to compromise.

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“The good things which belong to prosperity are to be wished, but the good things that belong to adversity are to be admired.” Seneca

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