posted November 20, 2005 02:40 PM            

quote:

---

Maybe it's the people you like Ozone? I can't see how that's possible either. At least 70% of Americans like W personally, the man you despise. People, the majority of whom vote conservative and agree much more with W than they do with you.

---

Ya know, I'll tell you guys something, there was once upon a time that I put this little thread up and the reaction that I did get(from those that you have seen here) is not what I really expected to see or hear. But now that I look through this thread, I really can't decide on the fact whether or not I should have reworded what I had to say at the time or not, but I do know that for whatever that I did have to say, I know that I have stated my piece with a great deal of vigilance and pretty much... I just called it how I saw it.

What a difference a year makes when someone at one time claims that 70% of a whole entire nation that loves a president for the kind of job that he is doing and that maybe at the time that person might be right at the time and for it's time, but that in today's way of looking at it turned out to be nothing more a far cry into what the reality of it is today. Now it's only 37% of the approval rating that this president has and almost that everything that either this president has ever done or the members of his cabinet or even the members of his own political party has either a flip/flop failure or that most people in the nation that happen to be Republican has reconcidered the position that they have given this president for another four years. It is interesting to think that only a little more then just a year ago, it just seemed that people that have opposed this president, didn't really have much of a leg to stand on and that anything that we said was just going to looked down at as just mere whimpers from a distance. But as I hear all that is being said now from those that supposably oppose me(outside of this website, of course) during that time are now ranting over most of what I have complained over and those that did oppose me in this website at the time,are not even bothering with "debating" anything that I'm saying now, I'm starting to see that I couldn't be all that wrong after all(not that I'm saying that I'm all that right either on my claims,but....)I'm not too far from what ever John Edwards has claimed it all to be for what the next fours years will hold if Bush wins a secord term in office, claiming that it will be just "more of the same"!

But you know what, all this really just leaves my heart empty, 70%, 37%, 120.000%, who really cares now? The question that I would ask the people that voted Bush into another term is that, "If you don't like him now, why did you vote for him in the first place?" or "What exactly did you like about this president then that you have a hard time liking now about?" The truth of the matter is really over the fact that it really doesn't matter now, the truth of the matter about all of this is if and when this president ever does something really illegal and gets cought for it or something else ever happens to him, until that time ever, ever happens, Bush will still remain president of the United States until the year of 2009 and that we have to deal with all of that! If we are still in war with Iraq up into the year of 2020(long after Bush leaves office)what could you really do about it? NOTHING! Voting a president in office is nothing more then a mere crap shoot and if you lose, you lose, if you win, you win and if you feel that you have lost after you have won and your not completly satisfied, then I guess that your winnings were never really winnings at all, just another Pyrrhic victory on America's behalf anyway, I suppose. What are ya gonna do?

A year ago, there layed out both sides of the population that was set out to make a difference in this country, for all that both sides and those that were outside of the both sides believed in, but deep down inside, once all is said and done, it all just ended up being "more of the same" thing! It's just that this time around, the president of the United States is going through something that is called a "Lame Duck Statis" and that is really about it, almost every president that has served a second term has gone through this period since God knows when and would remain that way until the end of that second term. So I really don't believe that there is anything that this president has done differently in office now, then that he did once he became president and now the people today in this country see it for what it is and all I have done was state my peace to all that got to listen to all that, but that is the beauty of living in America still, is that I can have an opinion towards the leader of my country and still not get arrested and put in prison for doing so, thus far, even though it seems that to me some people contest to even this notion that I have just made! Oh well!

I look at that quote above and I'm wondering though, was the statement "The people that I liked" or is it, "The people that are like me" that was being meant, I wonder sometimes!

posted November 20, 2005 05:22 PM              

quote:

---

I cannot for the life of me agree that America is murderously tyrannical and globally oppressive. If America is oppressive, what is life like under fundamentalist Islam regimes? I'll still take life in America over a burka any day of the week! And I'll still take Lays chips, Ben and Jerry's (yeah, I know they're anti-Bush but they make good ice cream), Borders bookstores (where I can books on topics other than cooking, gardening and Islam) and all of our stupid reality t.v. shows! Maybe our next reality show can be about "living in the Middle East." We'll stick 10 major celebrities (who all think that America is the Evil Empire) in the middle of Afghanistan somewhere and see how long they can last there before they come running back to Beverly Hills..... Ok, now I'm being fresh. Time to go!

---

might sound simple and funny but its really not, actually offensive. how many fundamentalist regimes are there in the world? Do you know there are 22 'Arab' countries in the world, of which only 8 are considered fundamentalist regimes? Did you know that in Egypt, Jordan, UAE (actually 7 countries), and Kuwait, women have equal rights as men, are not forced to wear a veil, and that in most higher income households in Egypt, men do the childrearing whereas women work outside the home? That number of liberal Arab countries actually outnumbers the fundamentalist regimes. Sadly people know nothing about the middle east but don't stop from passing comments such as those. It is impossible to not be offended by such a comment after knowing the truth of the situation, and i am NOT apologetic for being offended in that matter.

Also, it would be nice if people stopped equating terorrist with muslim. Arabs as a nation have a huge christian minority, followed by druze, athiest, and hindu minorities also. The palestinian-israeli issue for example, is not a muslim-jewish issue, but an israeli-arab issue, where the suicide bombers come from both muslim and christian backgrounds.

it would also be helpful if people heard more positive news about the 'terrorists', such as the recent Palestinian mother whose 12 yr old son was gunned down by israelis, by mistake, in a raid of Gaza strip. She decided to donate her sons' organs to Israeli children in hospitals awaiting organ donations. An israeli girl who received the boy's heart published a statement in an Israeli newspaper conveying her gratitude. The supposed terrorist arab population doesnt just take life it also gives it. Besides which, the number of bombings happening daily in civilian homes, by foreign forces, is not even broadcast here in the US. read any other news source for those figures. Even BBC gives it some coverage, but CNN would rather die than do that.

Lastly, the fall of any superpower, whether u would like to call it an empire or not, has to do with discrimination of any sort. contrary to popular stereotypes that arabs are terrorists or convenience store clerks, they are one of the most educated peoples in America. According to the US census, "15.2 percent of Arab Americans have "graduate degrees or higher"--more than twice the national average of 7.2 percent. Household income among Arab Americans also tends to be higher than the average. " This number is also expected to be on the rise.

However, racial profiling continues. A prime example would be the detaining of Darrel Issa,(an Arab American Congressman):

quote:

---

The profile of a terrorist is a man in his twenties or thirties who comes from Saudi Arabia, Egypt, or Pakistan. He probably lives in one of six states - Texas, New Jersey, California, New York, Michigan, or Florida. And he is likely to have engaged in some sort of suspicious activity, such as taking flying lessons, traveling, or getting a driver's license. Meeting one of these profiles is enough to get you questioned. Meeting all three is likely to land you in jail. [Darrell Issa fit the profile. He is Arab American, from California, and he was traveling to Saudi Arabia. The crew of his flight refused to allow him to board the plane. Representative Robert Walker (D-Florida) intervened on Issa's behalf, but to no avail.

---

now that, in my opinion, is actually kinda funny.

now i am off to eat chocolate covered raisins.

posted November 21, 2005 12:14 PM            

Do please let us know when one of your reputable news sources informs you the US has lost Superpower status. Inquiring minds want to know.

Which respected Mid East scholars are you talking about SG?...those who say representative government must be generated from within. So far, the only ones I've heard about are in the pocket of one Middle East dictator or another...dictators who have a deathly fear representative government in Iraq will succeed.

Trashing the US will get you elevated right to the top of acoustic's most favored persons list. He never misses an opportunity...like most other radical leftists...to trash the United States.

posted November 21, 2005 01:58 PM            

quote:

---

Trashing the US will get you elevated right to the top of acoustic's most favored persons list. He never misses an opportunity...like most other radical leftists...to trash the United States.

---

The founding fathers also trashed the policies of their country if you recall (and started a new one). Abe Lincoln also trashed the policies of his country, so did Martin Luther King Jr. Even YOU trash your country retrospectively with regard to Clinton's policies.

Furthermore, anyone who speaks out on behalf of the safety, security, and rights of any group of people is alright in my book, so long as they don't do so only when it is convenient.

It's not like she's trying to say that the Iraq war was initiated as a humanitarian effort, or that Rwanda is a valid excuse for denying UN Human Rights inspectors access to the prisoners in Guantanamo (Jwhop likes to act like a human rights advocate after the fact, when it's politically convenient for the conservative party). To demonstrate, has anyone heard Jwhop speaking of the crisis in Uganda? No, you haven't, but rest assured that if the UN makes a false move there and the conservatives are still on their anti-UN rampage, you will. What good is an activist after the fact? (By the way, when searching for a Conservative group of activists for Uganda, you might come across this article which talks about our humanitarian conservatives actually slowing or preventing the inflow of condoms to the region: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/4195968.stm )

quote:

---

"Over the last eight to 10 months, there's been a very significant decline in the use of condoms, significantly orchestrated by the policies of government."

---

Conservative groups and congress members also openly admit to addressing the HIV/AIDS issue late according to http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/tgr/06/3/gr060301.html .

quote:

---

Now the interesting thing and the fact which is most puzzling is....why would anyone who feels like that want to continue to live in the belly of the beast? Perhaps you could speak to that.

---

posted November 21, 2005 02:19 PM              

quote:

---

SG, about 70% of eligible Iraqi voters put the lie to your statement they would rather continue to live under a dictator.

---

Let me guess. This is according to news max?

posted November 21, 2005 02:20 PM            

quote:

---

The founding fathers also trashed the policies of their country if you recall (and started a new one)....acoustic

---

You and your radical leftist friends are free to leave America...as our founding fathers left England and Europe...and found your own little Marxist workers paradise somewhere else.

I've offered to see you off several times and wave good-bye and good riddance from the shores of America but you and your leftist friends have neither the guts nor the pioneering spirit our forefathers had. The only thing leftists have managed to perfect is their whine.

Nah, we did something about Clinton. We elected a Republican Congress.

In case you hadn't noticed, America voted...elected and reelected Bush AND the Republican Congress.

posted November 21, 2005 03:35 PM            

Second acoustic, you're no liberal as your remarks over time have proved. Liberals are not anti-America.

You should consult a psychological specialist about your delusion acoustic.

Not only are leftists losing the battle at the ballot boxes, they're losing the war of ideas..mainly because leftists have none.

One of the 2 remaining bastions of leftist thought...the US Supreme Court will be lost in the next few years...leaving only the leftist professors at universities and they are certainly under attack now and feeling the heat for their anti-America rhetoric.

posted November 21, 2005 04:09 PM              

quote:

---

SG, about 70% of eligible Iraqi voters put the lie to your statement they would rather continue to live under a dictator.

---

70% would like to see Saddam go, 70% NEVER said they wanted to see America THERE. and besides, how would you or anyone else every know what the preparations were in the arab world of letting saddam go or attacking him in the near future? dont underestimate the arabs, they can be a good boogar up ur nose. they havent given america an easy time in iraq, constantly lighting fire under their butt. and they will continue to do so...a very quarrelsome nation indeed.

secondly, the mideast scholars i speak of are not the ones in government pockets. maybe u havent heard of the rest. american media only shows ones associated with government, not the ones like asma jahangir or naguib mahfouz and others....aka nobel prize winners, womens rights advocates, and scientists and mathematicians, of which none are in the government, because the governments have become so backwards that they dont appreciate intellectualism anymore.

and yes u read that right. the governments are backwards--of iraq, iran, saudi. the rest i am not at liberty to say, and neither is anyone else, because there is simply no proof for such a statement. however, what disappoints me is not the backwardsness of those 2nd and 3rd world countries but the cruelty of a 1st world country like America. at least America , one would expect, would have the higher morals in the situation.

quote:

---

Trashing the US will get you elevated right to the top of acoustic's most favored persons list. He never misses an opportunity...like most other radical leftists...to trash the United States.

---

u forget that with a severely aspected uranus i have no desire for anyone to like me. i dont even care if my boyfriend likes me as long as he loves me if u know what i mean

quote:

---

Now the interesting thing and the fact which is most puzzling is....why would anyone who feels like that want to continue to live in the belly of the beast? Perhaps you could speak to that.

---

the reason i live in america is simple. when i moved here my mums life was under threat. first of all i am an american citizen, born in a time where anyone would be proud to be an american citizen. if i didnt feel threatened and outcast, i would stay in this country forever and advance its causes. but because it has turned its back on me, whereas im the same person, it has changed....its changed its definition of who is a worthy citizen and who is not, now it is difficult for me to stay. i came because my mums life was in danger (ex father a major time psycho who was out to kill her). anyways even the authorities couldnt save her life becoz my ex father is like one of the most powerful men in pakistan right now...not in an evil way, but he can be evil yes and use all those resources to even kaput the police.

anyways thats a long story. i do plan on leaving the US and dont see myself here long term. however, the reason i stayed after all this is two fold,

to see if there could be positive change, by speaking out?

because i feel comeraderie with so many people here who admire me. really, i would safely say 90 % of americans who meet me instantly like or love me. it can be heartwarming to know that even tho the govt doesnt give a rats ass about me but the people are kind and welcoming. and who could know the difference between a government and a people, more than myself, having come from one of the most war stricken areas in the world? where government is at a complete dichotomy from its people?

btw jwhop, u have as much right as me to voice ur opinions, but ur words can be so harsh that they cloud the meaning of ur statement. neither u nor i have the right to be cruel to each other, and any justification (im a leo sun whatever) is no justification for putting someone down. i wonder if u ever feel bad about what u write...because it definitely is rude. also, im one of those women who knows how to make men respect her...and i dont take anything other than it from people addressing me. so be careful in the future, thanks.

Love
SG

posted November 21, 2005 04:13 PM              

End Of Story

posted November 21, 2005 05:50 PM            

America is a welcoming land..for people from all over the world and perhaps too much so...at least in the present. There was a time when immigrants came to America for a better life, wanting to assimilate and become American..in the strictest sense of that word. Waves of immigrants came, struggled, learned the language and prospered. Those, I welcome. Those who wish to view America through the lens of their old culture and prejudices and/or change America can depart.

70% or more of Iraqi citizens eligible to vote did so. That is in sharp contrast to your statement they didn't care who ran the country...Saddam or a new government. No one in Iraq thinks the US is going to stay in Iraq indefinitely...as an occupier. The timetable for US military forces withdrawal is clear....when the Iraqi government is capable of defending Iraq against terrorists, Saddam loyalists, other criminals and their neighbors....who covet their oil fields, the US will be gone.

Your statement sets up a conflict. Without the US there, Saddam would be there so your statement doesn't make any sense. Neither does the suggestion that other Arab nations were set to kick Saddam out....who, for instance? Certainly not Iraqi citizens who were terrorized by Saddam for 30 years, of whom Saddam killed more than 300,000 because that's the number found in mass graves in Iraq and the number may be much higher.

American casualties are higher in Iraq because of the care taken to hit only terrorists and in the beginning of the war to only hit military objectives. You seem to forget, it's the terrorists who are deliberately targeting civilians. Where are you getting your news....terrorist.com?

Iraqis may be troublesome, quarrelsome, cantankerous and difficult but they are catching on to representative government fast. I wonder what you'll be saying after the election in December. To me, Iraqis have come to an understanding about self determination quickly and my hat's off to them. Those who are fighting are fighting against the concept of representative government...against the government and clear majority of Iraqi citizens. If the US suddenly pulled out, they would continue to do so, so, it's not the US as an occupier they're fighting against.

Speaking out against the war....before the war is one thing. Giving aid and comfort to the enemy during a war is quite something else. The issue of whether to go to war was settled...by the combined vote of the Senate and House of Representatives...the representatives of the people of the United States and reconfirmed by a second election last year.

posted November 21, 2005 07:45 PM            

quote:

---

what it would make a difference towards anything that we do in order to "liberate" this country into a democracy is going to do to stop the terorism that is going on all over the world to begin with.

---

posted November 21, 2005 08:40 PM              

A new generation is forming.

posted November 21, 2005 09:00 PM            

OK, maybe we will have our way sooner or later, but I agree that this is not going to end so sweet if that is the only thing that we can only think about against the rest of the world that is filled with terrorists, is by simply making a country a democracy to people that probably have never even had that kind of experiance before. I know that the Iraqis need to be trained, but what in the world are we to think that we have that kind of control over a world that hates us so much, we're not going to get the kind of cooperation that we'll ever desire, I'm yet to see what we are doing with bin Laden.

Anybody remember him?

This has always sounded too good to be true to me.

My main question is not whether or not we have any kind of exit strategy, but what then would he really do after we have completly and supposably set out to do in Iraq from there, then what?

posted November 21, 2005 09:52 PM              

Hmmm, good question
9-11-2001 = 23

11-23-2005 = 23

hmmm, he might be presenting himself soon
the Destroyer

what is he doing these days?