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Author Topic:   Bush is a hypocrite
laff
unregistered
posted October 23, 2004 09:46 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This is Bush's idea of victory.

Warning: Graphic Violence.
http://www.ericblumrich.com/antivic.html
http://www.ericblumrich.com/liberation.html

The REAL effects of Depleted Uranium.

Warning: Graphic.
http://www.ericblumrich.com/pl_lo.html

If you don't like what you see, simply push your back button. I think it's pretty important that everyone see this though. There's no arguing with photographs; here is the simple truth.

How do you think the Iraqis should feel about us now?

laff

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laff
unregistered
posted October 23, 2004 11:09 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oh, and here's how Bush feels about Vietnam Veterans:
http://www.ericblumrich.com/vets.html

He also temporarily floated a little trial balloon via the defense department to cut the pay of soldiers in Iraq, which he quietly punctured when he received an overwhelmingly negative reaction from military families across the nation:
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0815-09.htm

Yeah, heads are rolling already in this administration. Somebody's got to take the fall for the President. Just like the Nixon administration?

Laff

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Eleanore
Moderator

Posts: 112
From: Okinawa, Japan
Registered: Apr 2009

posted October 23, 2004 11:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Eleanore     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

I'm speechless.

------------------
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Ghandi

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 2787
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted October 24, 2004 01:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Nice propaganda shots laff. Who's Eric Blumrich laff? Could be the propaganda minister for Saddam Hussein. For that matter you could be too.

Eric seems to have forgotten a few relevant shots though. Where are the photos of Saddam feeding Iraqi's through his shredders?

Where are the photos of Saddam lowering Iraqi citizens inch by inch into vats of sulfuric acid?

Where are the photos of the Kurds Saddam sprayed with chemical weapons?

Where are the photos of the 300,000 Iraqis dug up from mass graves, photos as they were being executed by Saddams executioners?

Tell Eric when he gets around to showing those on his website, I'll come back to take a look....but I'm not holding my breath until Eric does that. After all, why would Eric show photos that make his buddy Saddam look bad when he can show propaganda photos that make his enemy Uncle Sam look bad?

Of course, I could ask you the same thing laff.

I could also ask you if these photos are authentic and in context with dates and events within the framework of US military operations? If yes is your answer, how do you know that. Because Eric showed them on his website?

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laff
unregistered
posted October 28, 2004 09:53 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Y'know, JWhop, Bush would make a damn good Saddam Hussein.... and so would you.

You actually are serious? You want to see Iraqi people lowered into hot vats of acid, or put through shredder machines? You are bloodthirsty, with an insatiable appetite for killing and violence, JWhop.

For your bloodthirstiness, and for your seared conscience, because you are desensitized toward violence and killing of your fellow human beings, JWhop, a horrible fate awaits you. Because of you, and those like you, this country will be brought low, this country you pretend to care about but really hate. It's a shame that you have to drag the rest of us along with you.

Not only that--you seem to believe the pictures are fake. I can vouch for the validity of these pictures, because I have seen several of them before. Most of them were taken by Al Jazeera, the Middle Eastern television network that helped to bring the concept of democracy to the Middle East. They have been about the only ones covering this war, and have suffered casualties for it: witness the US Military bombing a peaceful hotel and killing one of Al Jazeera's reporters!

How's that for freedom of speech? Guess it's for us but no one else, huh, JWhop?

But, then, I'm not surprised that you don't know that in a real war, civilians get hurt, women and children get hurt. No wonder you think the pictures are fake--you've never FOUGHT in a real war, so you don't know what it looks like! And you're perfectly happy to send my generation off to die in another war that's got nothing to do with us, now that we've fixed the loophole so that Guardsman actually have to serve in combat.

Iraq had nothing to do with Al Quaida--until we invaded it! And then, they invited themselves in!

The fact that you ramble on and on about who's patriotic and who cares about this country shows you are a moron. So go ahead and love your Satan-worshipping, child-murdering, so-called president. He's a Nazi and his grandpappy was a Nazi, who funded Hitler's Nazi concentration camps and was never prosecuted for it. He, and his daddy and grandpa like to drink out of skulls of dead Indians and have sex in a coffin at midnight. Yeah, JWhop, go ahead and wipe his butt for him.

Laff

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Aquarian Girl
unregistered
posted October 28, 2004 10:25 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Those images as harrowing and deeply moving as they are, do not paint a clear picture of what is going on over there.

I think it's despicable to malign the military which protects your freedoms both here and overseas. That Eric Blumrich is an abhorrant individual and if he thinks he is helping the Iraqi people by showing such propaganda, those films and propaganda like it aid and vindicate the militants, they don't help Iraqi civilians.

No one likes to see their fellow human beings suffering as they are in those pictures. Those images are created to illicit an emotional response and for what agenda, I am almost afriad to speculate. The agenda certainly isn't to help the Iraqi people, that is what the men and women in theUS military are doing every day, HELPING IRAQI'S.

Without struggle, there is no progress. I prersonally believe those images of suffering Iraqi's need to be seen also, all I ask for is a little balance asnd context, please.

...


This is good news that hasn't been fit to print or report on TV. It is much easier to point out the errors a man makes when he makes the tough decisions, rarely is the positive as aggressively pursued.

From the Commanding Officer at MWSS-171 to his Marines...

.. over 60,000 Iraqis now provide security to their fellow citizens.

.. nearly all of Iraq's 400 courts are functioning.

.. the Iraqi judiciary is fully independent.

.. on Monday, October 6 power generation hit 4,518 megawatts --
exceeding the prewar average.

.. all 22 universities and 43 technical institutes and colleges are
open, as are nearly all primary and secondary schools.

.. by October 1, Coalition forces had rehab-ed over 1,500 schools --
500 more than scheduled.

.. teachers earn from 12 to 25 times their former salaries.

.. all 240 hospitals and more than 1200 clinics are open.

.. doctors salaries are at least eight times what they were under
Saddam.

.. pharmaceutical distribution has gone from essentially nothing to 700
tons in May to a current total of 12,000 tons.

.. the Coalition has helped administer over 22 million vaccinations to
Iraq's children.

.. a Coalition program has cleared over 14,000 kilometers of Iraq's
27,000 kilometers of weed-choked canals which now irrigate tens of
thousands of farms. This project has created jobs for more than 100,000
Iraqi men and women.

.. we have restored over three-quarters of prewar telephone services
and over two-thirds of the potable water production.

.. there are 4,900 full-service telephone connections. We expect 50,000
by year-end.

.. the wheels of commerce are turning. From bicycles to satellite
dishes to cars and trucks, businesses are coming to life in all major
cities and towns.

.. 95 percent of all prewar bank customers have service and first-time
customers are opening accounts daily.

.. Iraqi banks are making loans to finance businesses.

.. the central bank is fully independent.

.. Iraq has one of the worlds most growth-oriented investment and
banking laws.

.. Iraq has a single, unified currency for the first time in 15
years.

.. satellite TV dishes are legal.

.. foreign journalists aren't on 10-day visas paying mandatory and
extortionate fees to the Ministry of Information for "minders" and
other government spies.

.. there is no Ministry of Information.

.. there are more than 170 newspapers.

.. you can buy satellite dishes on what seems like every street corner.

.. foreign journalists (and everyone else) are free to come and go.

.. a nation that had not one single element -- legislative, judicial or
executive -- of a representative government, now does.

.. in Baghdad alone residents have selected 88 advisory councils.
Baghdad's first democratic transfer of power in 35 years happened when
the city council elected its new chairman.

.. today in Iraq chambers of commerce, business, school and
professional organizations are electing their leaders all over the
country.

.. 25 ministers, selected by the most representative governing body in
Iraq's history, run the day-to-day business of government.

... the Iraqi government regularly participates in international
events. Since July the Iraqi government has been represented in over
two dozen international meetings, including those of the UN General
Assembly, the Arab League, the World Bank and IMF and, today, the
Islamic Conference Summit. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs today
announced that it is reopening over 30 Iraqi embassies around the
world.

.. Shia religious festivals that were all but banned, aren't.

.. for the first time in 35 years, in Karbala thousands of Shiites
celebrate the pilgrimage of the 12th Imam.

.. the Coalition has completed over 13,000 reconstruction projects,
large and small, as part of a strategic plan for the reconstruction of
Iraq.

.. Uday and Quesay are dead -- and no longer feeding innocent Iraqis to
the zoo lions, raping the young daughters of local leaders to force
cooperation, torturing Iraq's soccer players for losing games, or
murdering critics.

.. children aren't imprisoned or murdered when their parents disagree
with the government.

.. political opponents aren't imprisoned, tortured, executed, maimed,
or are forced to watch their families die for disagreeing with Saddam.

.. millions of long-suffering Iraqis no longer live in perpetual
terror.

.. Saudis will hold municipal elections.

.. Qatar is reforming education to give more choices to parents.

.. Jordan is accelerating market economic reforms.

.. the Nobel Peace Prize was awarded for the first time to an Iranian -
a Muslim woman who speaks out with courage for human rights, for
democracy and for peace.

.. Saddam is gone.

.. Iraq is free..

.. President Bush has not faltered or failed.

.. Yet, little or none of this information has been published by the
Press corps that prides itself on bringing you all the news that's
important.

Iraq under US lead control has come further in six months than Germany
did in seven years or Japan did in nine years following WWII. Military
deaths from fanatic Nazi's, and Japanese numbered in the thousands and
continued for over three years after WWII victory was declared.

It took the US over four months to clear away the twin tower debris,
let alone attempt to build something else in its place.

Now, take into account that Congress fought President Bush on every
aspect of his handling of this country's war and the post-war
reconstruction; and that they continue to claim on a daily basis on
national TV that this conflict has been a failure.

Taking everything into consideration, even the unfortunate loss of our
brothers and sisters in this conflict, do you think anyone else in the
world could have accomplished as much as the United States and the Bush
administration in so short a period of time?

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laff
unregistered
posted October 28, 2004 11:06 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm not so sure, Aquarian Girl... you say all these good things are going on--but they sound all like economic fixes. Is it possible we are trading blood for money? How moral is that?

If we are meant to be the moral champion and policemen of the world, then how come we set Saddam up in power over there in the 1st place? Did you know that, Aquarian Girl? How do you think he got poison gas? He didn't manufacture it himself, we gave it to him to fight the war against Iran, when Dubya's daddy was VP of the US.

So, you say all these hospitals are being built--where have they been built? In Bagdad? Is everyone there actually getting the medical attention they need?

How come there are still thousands of people over there who are still without water treatment, and they are drinking polluted water and dying of malaria? How about the thousands without electricity, or those whose homes are rubble because angry young soldiers without adult judgement decided to bomb their homes for the heck of it and kill a few kids?

We want to build up their cities with our money, just to leave the rural citizens to die of dyssentry and waste?

You want to trade dollars for blood? Skulls and bones for "social progress"? Yeah, Saddam was a murderer and a villain. So, how come we're not invading Darfur? What about Colombia, we've been funding a corrupt government that employs druglords to terrorize their own people--for over 20 years. Osama bin Laden was trained by the best military people in the United States as a free agent, and given lotsa American weapons, too, before he went AWOL on us and declared himself a terrorist. Bush family is STILL pals with his nearest and dearest relatives from Saudi Arabia (that black sheep!) Amazing. The way our government thinks never ceases to amaze me.

Aquarian Girl, check out Linda Goodman's Star Signs. (I think, this site is about her, right?) She does a really nifty lexigram on the "CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AGENCY". I don't think she's unAmerican for it, either.

laff

P.S. If all you say is true, we the US are behaving like manic depressives over there. They must think we are insane, or stupid, or both.

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 2787
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted October 29, 2004 12:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You need to cut back on the caffeine laff. You're teetering on the edge. Perhaps a nice big chocolate cake would calm you down.

Lucky for you and your generation you got Bush and not me laff. I'd have snatched you off the streets of America long ago, shaved your heads and ran you through basic, intermediate and advanced infantry training before shipping all your butts off to far away lands.

In the meantime you would have learned at least one thing from your Drill Instructor.

First lesson, they don't mind and you don't matter. It's their mind over matter lesson and they teach it well. I tend to agree with them when a discussion erupts and one of the parties is a BS spouting know nothing.

Seems obvious you've been copying the styles of the moron Michael Moore who oozes BS out of every pore and John Kerry who never heard a lie he didn't plagiarize and use in his presidential campaign.

Think I would send you to Iraq laff. You could look up some Iraqi citizens who are intent on self determination and spout your BS to them. They would either laugh in your face or beat the hell out of you.

After 30 years of your buddy Saddam Hussein, your BS wouldn't go down very well.

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Mirandee
unregistered
posted October 29, 2004 01:47 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Jwhop you must feel really threatened by Michael Moore. You bring him up in just about every post. What is it about him that worries you so much?

Yeah, laff, it's not like seeing pictures of what war is really like should initiate any emotional response in us. That would be propaganda. But all the really feely good stuff should be shown and reported and that's not propaganda.


quote:
Lucky for you and your generation you got Bush and not me laff. I'd have snatched you off the streets of America long ago, shaved your heads and ran you through basic, intermediate and advanced infantry training before shipping all your butts off to far away lands.


So if you are so gung ho about war and you would shave laff's head and send him/her off to far away lands how come you opted for the National Guard during the Vietnam war and you didn't go when you had the chance, jwhop?

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Aquarian Girl
unregistered
posted October 29, 2004 02:00 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Laff, I have read Linda Goodman's books thanks. Have you?

Yes, I would trade "blood and skulls" for social progress. How many peaceful revolutions against bloodthirsty dictators do you know of? Revolution and upheaval is usually a bloody process. You don't have the stomach for that, but somehow you have the stomach to defend Saddam after all murder, torture, genocide and rape he has commited against his own citizens. What is immoral about all the great things happening in Iraq I told you about? You are either being intellectually dishonest or you've forgotten to take your meds if you cannot admit that already, the fruits of this war are beginning to emerge. There are some great things happening over there, none of which would have occured without this bloody struggle.

So, by your logic or lackthereof, because the US was once "friends" with the likes of Saddam and Osama, today, we should turn a blind eye to the plight of the Iraqi people, ignore intelligence reports that say Saddam has WMD and just allow Osama and his terrorist cronies to murder, bomb and plunder the US and it's allies?

You don't offer any solutions. I'd like to know what your solution is. All you do is post pictures of massacred Iraqi's, malign the military and sputter about conditions over in Iraq and how evil America and it's leaders are, but what is your solution to the problem of Saddam, 9/11, Al Qiada. I would love to hear how you would sit down and reason with someone like our old buddies Saddam or Osama and get them to see the light

Apparently, everyone but you is too daft to figure it out.

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Mirandee
unregistered
posted October 29, 2004 02:05 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
No where did I read that laff even indicated she/he supported Saddam Hussein. Sorry but that is not there in the post. In fact what laff said was that Saddam was a villian and murderer.

[quote]Where are the photos of the Kurds Saddam sprayed with chemical weapons?[/quote}

You forgot to mention that Saddam used the American helicopters supplied to him by the Reagan administration to spray the chemical weapons the U.S. also supplied to him to spray on the Iranians. I also liked the picture of Rumsfeld shaking hands with Hussein at a meeting with him in Iraq at that time.

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Aquarian Girl
unregistered
posted October 29, 2004 02:11 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, apparently Laff thinks the progress made in Iraq is immoral, as is our action there to begin with according to her. I'd like to know what the alternative solution would be. Feel free to take a stab at it too, Mirandee.

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Mirandee
unregistered
posted October 29, 2004 02:31 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, the damage is done now, Aquarian. Too late for any alternative solutions. We own it now as Colin Powell warned Bush would happen when he was told of the invasion of Iraq. Now we have to see it to the end which will be decades from now and billions and billions of dollars of our resources. Even Dubya's dad said there is no exit once you go in there and he gave that as the reason he did not take Hussein out during the Gulf War.

Bush has laid this albatross on the American people for generations to come. If he gets back in office no country is going to work with him after he arrogantly told them if they did not join the coalition they are with the enemy. The UN is not going to work with him. You saw the cold shoulder he got from the UN when he spoke before them a while back. So the U.S. tax payers get handed this bill to pay all by ourselves. I don't know where we will get the money either since our jobs are being outsourced to Communist China thereby showing support to communism.

Solution. Elect John Kerry because he didn't thumb his nose at the rest of the world and we need a President who can mend the damage done by Bush to U.S. world relations and the UN. Then we can get support from them to help restore Iraq. We will also get more troop support so our troops don't have to keep doing double and triple duty and can go home to their families.

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 2787
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted October 29, 2004 12:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I joined the National Guard thinking my infantry unit might be activated....as many were. I had no military obligation whatsoever and was to all intents and purposes, exempt...as I told you previously. Ummm, my enlistment obligation was 6 years.

As for laff and the generation with absolutely no self control, absolutely no discipline and no affinity with America, the American people, the institutions of America or our system of government, military service...even 6 months of active duty would be a definite attitude adjustment...as it is for those who enlist and as it was for those who were drafted.

I see from you attitude Mirandee that you think as Rusty did that only those who want to engage terrorists and terrorist nations should enlist to fight them. With an attitude like yours Mirandee, I hope there isn't anyone depending on you for protection because if they ever get over here and threaten you or your family, you'll give them a 10 minute lecture on peace, love and friendship, instead of a bullet.

I am for a uniform military draft mandating 2 years of military training and service....and the discipline, self respect and love of country that service instills.

Fear Michael Moore? I hear this line of thought from liberals all the time Mirandee...the idea that we fear those we oppose. BS, Michael Moore is a $issant, exposed as a fraud, con man, liar and America/American hating twit. It isn't fear Mirandee, it's utter contempt.


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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 2787
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted October 29, 2004 12:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
To be against removing Saddam Hussein is effectively a vote for Saddam Hussein.

There is no escaping the logic of that statement no matter how much people like you try to wiggle your way of the hooks of that dilemma.

John Kerry is a weak kneed fraud who will not follow through to defeat terrorism. He will effectively surrender.

The reason France, Russia and Germany were against the invasion of Iraq is because they had contracts with Saddam, contracts to supply him with banned weapons and technology, items banned by the sanctions imposed by the UN resolutions and found in Iraq by US and coalition forces on the ground there.

Additionally, Saddam was bribing UN executives, government leaders and business leaders in Germany, Russia and France, using the Oil for Food Program set up by the UN. It's the largest bribery case in the history of the world and it now appears that some of the money skimmed from the program went to terrorist front organizations.

I see no need to mend relations with France and Germany, nations who worked directly against our security interests....as well as their own when considering the long view.

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LibraSparkle
unregistered
posted October 29, 2004 12:48 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I wish people would stop invoking the name of Linda Goodman in this forum. Not everyone is going to agree with everyone's political beliefs... including LG's political beliefs.


***This is coming from someone who typically believes along the same lines as LG***

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laff
unregistered
posted October 29, 2004 10:42 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Interesting replies, ya'll....

Mirandee, you're just a sweetheart!

Sorry, LibraSparkle, I didn't know it was against the "rules" of this forum to "invoke" Linda's name... sorry you're so tired of it.... since I'm new here, it won't happen again.... I'd like to remind you, though, that if it weren't for Linda, there wouldn't be a site here....

JWhop, for you to insult my generation is the ultimate hypocrisy, since we are actually more conservative than your generation was. We've got fewer drug addicts than your generation (I'd remind you that experimentation with drugs was rampant in the 60's) and then ya'll turn around with a little halo over your heads and pretend to be conservative like your parents.

So, remember, JWhop, whose the parents of my generation? If we have no self-control, who did a bad job, hmm?

Oh, ad Aquarian Girl. Mustn't forget you, least of all. If I am on meds, then your post is pretty denigrating of those who really do suffer from conditions of one type or another, ad is uncompassionate and uncalled for.

As for accusing me of being on Saddam's side, that is just a cheap ploy, for you have forgotten 1.) By invading just one foriegn country (Iraq), we have a full-time job on our hands. Maybe you have forgotten OUR TROOPS are over there. Maybe JWhop conveniently forgot that the defense dept. planned on cutting wages for the military, but I haven't. (See my post per above.)

Of course, JWhop would recommend sending me off to war, despite being a woman, because not only is he a neo-compassionate conservative, he's also a true gentleman. (NOT!)

2.) Since we are stretched thin in Iraq, I have made my point, Aqu... why haven't we invaded DARFUR or NORTH KOREA or COLUMBIA or INDONESIA or BOLIVIA or THE PHILLIPINES or ARGENTINA or any number of other countries that have equally heinous dictators? Simple. We don't have the forces to be the world's policemen, and none of those countries has oil.

See, JWhop, this is the hook that none of you conservatives can escape from: WE DON'T HAVE THE POWER TO SAVE THE WORLD! Until you can answer my question, "Why didn't we invade one of these equally egregious countries guilty of human rights abuses," then you have lost your case! NOT buying it!

See, it was a *master plan*. Set Saddam up, a terrible dictator, in Iraq. Give him lots of guns. Give him time to do lots of damage. Then, voila. WE have a case to go to war = an oil=bearing mideast country all our own!

So, I don't feel guilty, and I don't feel sorry for Bush or any of his greedy cronies.. because why, out of all the bad countries in the world to "liberate", did you choose Iraq? OIL. Bottom line.

Just to give you a little story about just one of those countries, Aquarian girl, if you are capable of feeling any pity. Argentina had a lot of political dissenters against the government. So many, that they decided to make their children disappear. That's right. Their children were abducted and murdered, to the tune of about 100,000. Did we do anything? No. We stood by and did nothing. Why? Because Argentina doesn't have oil like Iraq does.

Oh, and as for your "revolution".... they hate us there. They want us out of their country. Remember the expression "Of the people, by the people and for the people"? Yeah. It wasn't their revolution, so they couldn't want it; we imposed it on them. So it wasn't a true revolution, it was just a dirty political game. For you to say the blood was justified shows just how far you've fallen.

Laff

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LibraSparkle
unregistered
posted October 29, 2004 10:53 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Sorry, LibraSparkle, I didn't know it was against the "rules" of this forum to "invoke" Linda's name... sorry you're so tired of it.... since I'm new here, it won't happen again.... I'd like to remind you, though, that if it weren't for Linda, there wouldn't be a site here....

Didn't intend it to be snappy. Honestly, I didn't notice *who* posted it, just *that* it was posted. There's no *rule* against it. Just my personal feeling about it. I just don't feel it's fair to suggest just because Linda Goodman believed a certain thing (be it metaphysical or political), it should be assumed that everyone must agree with it.

Sorry if you were offended. I certainly intended no offense.

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laff
unregistered
posted October 30, 2004 03:06 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Bush is a Satanist:

And here's another:

This is Bush making the gesture of the Horned Owl at his commencement ceremony when he received an honorary law degree from Yale recently.

laff

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laff
unregistered
posted October 30, 2004 07:48 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oops, LibraSparkle.... didn't notice your post there. Sorry, I didn't mean to ignore you.

laff

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 2787
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted October 30, 2004 11:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Laff, your generation is not more conservative than my generation or my childrens generation. You may or may not be more conservative than the hippy peaceniks and the Clinton/Kerry/Algore/Hillary crowd but hell laff, Karl Marx was more conservative than any of those people.

For your information laff, I raised 3 children who would laugh in your face for your remark their generation or mine had no self control, universally used drugs or any other nonsense you've spouted here. I will also tell you that you would find no sympathetic ear in them from anything you've said so far on this forum.

If you would have left Saddam in power in Iraq, that is a vote for Saddam Hussein. The fact we cannot or will not remove every dictator at the same time and therefore should leave them all alone is a specious argument and fuzzy thinking... liberal specialties.

The United States did not arm Saddam Hussein but here is your chance to back up your remark with some proof. I will tell you Saddam was armed by the Soviet Union, France and Germany and their military hardware was found there after the first Gulf War. I said found but that was no secret....apparently you were the only one who didn't know that.

Your wild, unsupported and insupportable allegations are tiresome laff. You only prove you're blowing hot air and spouting BS, perhaps from the crazed morons at the websites you get your drivel from. I would hate to think your nonsense if a product of your own mind.

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Eleanore
Moderator

Posts: 112
From: Okinawa, Japan
Registered: Apr 2009

posted October 31, 2004 07:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Eleanore     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
jwhop
I'm just curious ... doesn't it bother you that we attacked Iraq without first going after bin Laden and the terrorists who did attack us? I think Hussein is a poor excuse for a person and certainly a leader that had to be dealt with ... but wouldn't it have been more logical to go after the immediate threat of the terrorists who had already attacked us before dealing with Hussein? You're right, we cannot and will not deal with every dictator at the same time ... add to that list all the irregular nuts like terrorists, etc. But how do you justify putting the majority of our efforts into Iraq while the people who did attack us are running free to this very day? I'm just trying to understand your position.

------------------
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Ghandi

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 2787
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted November 01, 2004 01:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Good point Eleanore and if it were true that we attacked Iraq BEFORE going after bin Laden and the terrorists who DID attack us, I would perhaps agree with you.

Fact Eleanore, we did go after bin Laden and the country which harbored and supported bin Laden. The Taliban is not in charge of Afghanistan any more and free elections have been held for the first time in 5,000 years in Afghanistan.

Al-Qaeda has suffered catastrophic losses to it's top command structure, had it's funding cut off and seized and it's supporters arrested and charged with crimes, both here and abroad. Over 75% of the leaders of al-Queda have been captured or killed. The rest are on the run...including bin Laden himself.

You may disagree with the sequence of events Eleanore but Iraq and Saddam Hussein represented a danger the President could not overlook...given Saddam was believed by every intelligence service in the world to have WMD, given the fact Saddam hated America and given the fact Saddan DID have ties to terrorist organizations, including al-Queda, Iraq and Saddam was the logical choice for the second front in the war on terrorism.

It's true bin Laden appears to be alive and well but bin Laden is vastly reduced in influence, power, funding and ability to strike the United States. The proof of that is in the fact al-Queda and not only al-Queda, but other terrorist organizations, have not struck America again since 9/11. Is there anyone on Earth who believes al-Queda and other terrorists do not view America as the target of first choice?

The point on which we may disagree Eleanore is that the people who attacked the US are running free. I totally disagree with the concept since most of the al-Queda leadership is captured or dead and the rest are on the run. Further, it's clear some elements of al-Queda are fighting in Iraq. Personally, I think it's best to kill them there in Iraq, where they've exposed themselves than to have to hunt them in Afghanistan or other nation we do not have access to....at the present time. They've come to us...so to speak, which saves us the time, trouble and effort of rooting them out of the caves of Afghanistan or sitting on our hands while they find refuge in Pakistan or Iran. It seems the best of all possible scenarios that they would expose themselves in Iraq to be captured or killed. In the mean time, bin Laden IS being hunted and every scrap of information available is being examined for clues to his location, not only by the US but by other nations cooperating in the effort..including France, Germany and Russia, who did not participate in the war in Iraq but are cooperating in the war on terrorism in general and the war on al-Queda in particular.

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miss_apples
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posted November 01, 2004 03:13 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I would just like to say the hand gesture Bush was making in the "Bush is a satanist" photo is actually not a satanist gesture...its a pagan gesture representing the horned god which is the god of fall and winter. People were told by christian propaganda that that gesture was a satanist gesture. Then of course it was adopted by death metal fans and wanna-be satanists.

See what propaghanda does?

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Rainbow~
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posted November 01, 2004 03:18 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ohmigosh! How scandalous! Bush the good Christian making Pagan hand signals.......what IS the world coming to?

Love,
Rainbow

(sorry to say, but there are many of the Christian persuasion who would consider Satanism and Paganism one and the same...sad, isn't it? )

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