posted December 21, 2004 01:13 PM              

you mean you havnt gone to work for sandy the hamburglar selling your jwhopperz yet?
of course i would be embarrassed to have a single ridiculous thing pointed out to me....let alone 5

but before i try to dig up 5 outlandish things youve said without even a cursory check to their accuracy,you must agree to 2 things

1]you must agree that ignorance is no excuse(uummm "i thought i heard it somewhere" on some right wing talk radio show doesnt count)

posted December 21, 2004 01:27 PM            

Nor are outlandish things you allege I said the issue.

The issue is, you asserted I made things up to post here.

posted December 21, 2004 02:09 PM              

1]

"We've also found artillery shells filled with Sarin and Mustard gas, enough to kill an estimated 500,000 people.....already loaded"-jwhop

the buried blister shells(from the 80's) turned out to be "loaded" with rusty water....
the mustard gas shell (from the 80's)was defunct, the chemical was useless ,
the dozens of sarin rockets we bought from the southern shia's were more old rounds from the 80'z, bone dry
the pentagon stated that none of the shells posed any threat....
the only one that did was the sarin shell ied(again an old pre gulfwar shell) which exploded near a convoy, burning off or spilling the contents....killing no one
the 2 soldiers who picked up the pieces and transported it back got mild symptoms of sarin poisoning (even though they say "1 tiny drop on the skin will kill a man")

when i called you on it you scoured the billions of web pages on the net and sent me to some blog called "the loonatic left, satirical ramblings of mahatma" who said we found stockpiles that could kill 200,000 lol

i know a right winger says "let the buyer beware" but in this case it was "let the seller beware"
btw there are probably hundreds of unexploded chemical shells littering the border of iran and iraq left from the u.s. backed iran iraq war....chunks of rust like those "blister shells" filled with rusty water, but with a sensative chemical test, some MIGHT still test positive for "traces" of sarin .........are we combing the sand with metal detectors to find them?

that outlandish "fact" was said not long after you posted this piece of drivel...

"I know that after shooting off their mouths that Saddam had no WMD, it's embarrassing to the left when they begin to show up and particularly, to show up in terrorists hands which was something the President tried to prevent by going after Saddam. It looks like a lot of words will have to be eaten by the left but I don't think anyone on that side is big enough to say they were wrong. All the left seems capable of doing is run their mouths. It would be helpful if once in a while they actually knew what the hell they were talking about."-jwhop

posted December 21, 2004 03:28 PM            

Please post the link to the thread where I posted the information you say I made up.

One other thing Petron. You ever start a thread here again where my screen name is used in an insulting manner, as you have on this thread and I promise to EDIT**give you my full and undivided attention.

There was a time when children were seen and not heard, for reasons now apparent.

posted December 21, 2004 04:44 PM              

there was no source for that piece of drivel you made up on the spot

why do i have to keep repeating myself?
ive posted links to this before even lol find it yourself.....

im really not sceered jwhop
i dont think the entire "full undivided attention" of evry1 on the right would add up to more than say....3 neural synapses firing once every hour....(how was that for a jwhop style blanket insult? eh?)

after all, you gave no thought whatsoever about telling me I DONT GIVE A DAMN ABOUT AMERICAN CASUALTIES!!!

pfffftt!!!

posted December 21, 2004 05:30 PM            

I seldom say anything I can't back up. I leave that task to the lying leftists.

Multiple Tests Confirming Iraq WMD Send Media Into Deep Spin
NewsMax ^ | 1/4/04 | Limbacher

Posted on 01/11/2004 11:56:36 AM PST by Tumbleweed_Connection

Mulitple tests conducted in Iraq by Danish and British experts indicate that Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction have finally been discovered, but mainstream news editors either ignored the story Sunday morning or are furiously spinning the news as inconsequential.

More than 12 hours after the Fox News Channel, Reuters and the Associated Press carried reports that preliminary tests showed Iraqi mortar shells discovered near Basra contain a deadly liquid blister agent, the New York Times had yet to report the bombshell find on the main page of its Web site – or anywhere in its Sunday morning print edition.

The Washington Post's Web site also chose not to cover the blockbuster news, which ABC News military analyst Tony Cordesman said Saturday would be "the first real confirmation that Iraq actually had deployed chemical weapons and was prepared to use them" if tests confirmed the find.

Saturday night the Fox News Channel revealed that initial tests had indeed confirmed the blockbuster discovery.

"Danish troops are in charge of that area around the village of Al Quarnah, and they have found what they believe are, according to this official, two hundred shells," reported FNC's Greg Palkrow.

Palkrow said the Danish official told him: "They've run four different tests on that liquid inside those shells. And all those tests do indicate that there is blister gas – that's a deadly chemical weapon - inside of those shells."

The AP said that a statement released by Danish officials cited British experts, who had also confirmed that the shells contained "blister gas."

Before the war the Bush administration had alleged that Baghdad was stockpiling blister gas in liquid form.

Both reports noted that the find had yet to be confirmed by the U.S. team in Iraq assigned to search for weapons of mass destruction.

But according to the London Sunday Telegraph, Ali Nimir, a former colonel in an Iraqi Republican Guard artillery unit, had also confirmed the find.

"I remember seeing boxes of these kinds of armaments in our base two years ago," Nimir said. "We were told that they were chemical weapons."

"They were removed from our bases and distributed to secret hiding places about a year before the war," he explained. "I never saw them again."

Still, despite the staggering political consequences of the bombshell discovery – news that could mean total vindication for President Bush against Democrat charges that he "lied" about Iraq's WMDs – mainstream reports consistently downplayed the story.

The New York Daily News, for instance, covered the news on page 24 of its Sunday edition, and then only under a headline that obscured the potential impact of the story: "Old Iraqi Gas Shells."

New York's Newsday echoed the same theme with its page 20 headline, "Weapons Found, but Likely Old" – as if the vintage of Saddam's WMDs somehow mitigated genuine proof of their existence after months of media claims to the contrary.

The only news outlet to refer to weapons of mass destruction in its headline was the New York Post, which labeled its page 2 report: "WMD Gas Shells Dug Up in Iraq."

posted December 21, 2004 05:33 PM            

At least one of the al-Qaida plotters arrested in Jordan earlier this month as part of a weapons of mass destruction plot that Jordanian officials say could have killed 80,000 people revealed on Monday that he was trained in Iraq before the U.S. invaded in March 2003.

In a confession broadcast on Jordanian television, the unnamed WMD conspirator revealed: "In Iraq, I started training in explosives and poisons. I gave my complete obedience to [Abu Musab al] Zarqawi," the al-Qaida WMD specialist whose base of operations was in Iraq.

Excerpts from the WMD conspirator's confession broadcast by ABC's "Nightline" late Monday show that the WMD plot was planned and trained for in Iraq more than a year before the U.S. invasion, with the terror suspect admitting, "After the fall of Afghanistan, I met Zarqawi again in Iraq."

U.S. forces vanquished the Taliban government in Kabul in December 2001 - 15 months before the U.S. invasion of Iraq.

"Some of the details appear to be fairly significant in terms of the planning," reported "Nightline's" Chris Bury: "$170,000, a lot of meetings, getting instructions from people in Iraq, people inside Syria."

"This doesn't appear to be a mom-and-pop operation," he added.

Al-Zarqawi, who also ran a camp for Jordanian recruits in Afghanistan, has been linked to a series of terrorist plots, including the attack in Madrid last month, the bombing of the U.N. compound in Baghdad last summer, and the 2002 killing of an American diplomat in Jordan.

On Monday al-Zarqawi took credit for the attacks on Iraq's oil terminals in Basra over the weekend, "Nightline" said. The attack, though interrupted before it could do maximum damage, killed three U.S. soldiers.

The Jordan chem-bomb plot was to be executed in three stages, according to a video re-enactment released by Jordanian officials.

The first stage was to involve a car carrying several al-Qaida operatives, who would approach the gates of the Jordanian security service in Amman and gun down the facility's armed guards.

The car would be quickly followed by a specially equipped track laden with conventional explosives that would break through the security service gate and crash into the main building.

In the third stage, the plot called for three tanker trucks to follow the breakthrough vehicle, loaded with a combined total of 20 tons of chemical weapons laced with conventional explosives. One truck was to crash into the security headquarters, another the U.S. Embassy nearby. A third was to hit a building within a few hundred yards of the other two targets, the Jordanian video showed.

The ensuing cloud of poison gas could have killed 80,000 people, Jordanian officials said, an estimate that was revised upward from an anticipated death toll of 20,000 last week.

In film footage broadcast by "Nightline," Jordanian television showed hundreds of plastic containers that had been removed from the trucks that Jordanian officials said were filled with chemical weapons.

posted December 21, 2004 05:41 PM            

(05-17) 09:10 PDT BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) --

A roadside bomb containing deadly sarin nerve agent exploded near a U.S. military convoy, the U.S. military said Monday. It was believed to be the first confirmed finding of any of the banned weapons upon which the United States based its case for the Iraq war.

Two people were treated for "minor exposure," but no serious injuries were reported.

The deadly chemical was inside an artillery shell dating to the Saddam Hussein era that had been rigged as a bomb in Baghdad, said Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt, the chief military spokesman in Iraq..........

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2004/05/17/international1027EDT0555.DTL&type=printable

posted December 21, 2004 05:43 PM            

If you have any further questions about my sources, post the entirity of what I said that you say I made up. Better yet supply the link to the thread my post appears on.

Tests Confirm Sarin Gas in Baghdad Bomb
NewsMax.com Wires
Tuesday, May 25, 2004

WASHINGTON – Comprehensive testing has confirmed the presence of the chemical weapon sarin in the remains of a roadside bomb discovered this month in Baghdad, a defense official said Tuesday.The determination, made by a laboratory in the United States that the official would not identify, verifies what earlier, less-thorough field tests had found: The bomb was made from an artillery shell designed to disperse the deadly nerve agent on the battlefield. http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/5/25/165531.shtml

posted December 21, 2004 06:47 PM              

and i asked you this before too....
you probably remember on foxnews all day the sunday this story hit, they mustve said 1000 times it was VX GAS!!!
later after fox stopped even covering it a couple days later it became....unspecified chemicals that couldve created a "toxic cloud"
in april jordanian officails stated these unspecified chemicals were bought at a local market

you on the right love to cling to this "theory" about saddam sending trucks full of wmd's across the border to syria....(as if it were some "fact")
but if that were the case, dont you think ZARQAWI would have been the one to get them??? hmmmmm why did he have to buy pestacides and chemicals IN JORDAN then??

****************

Jordan foils Al-Qaeda chemical attacks
Officials say plot involved attacking intelligence department, Prime Minister's HQ, US embassy in Amman.

But officials did not provide details on those last two targets nor specify the type of chemicals they said the suspects behind bars had bought on the local market. Four other suspects were killed last week in Amman.

posted December 21, 2004 07:06 PM              

****

'No blister agent' in Iraq shells

The shells had been buried for about 10 years
Three dozen mortar shells uncovered in Iraq earlier this month had no chemical agents, the Danish army says.
It is not clear why initial tests first showed they could contain blister gas, the Danish army said in a statement carried by the AP news agency.

The 36 shells were found in southern Iraq buried among building equipment, even though they appeared to have been abandoned for at least 10 years

Initial confusion

Field tests conducted by British and Danish inspectors indicated that the shells - found on 9 January - contained traces of blister gases - including mustard gas compounds.

But further tests by the Iraq Survey Group in South Iraq and the US Department of Energy's National Engineering and Environmental Laboratory in Idaho proved these results were incorrect.

"The results show the shells from the Danish area did not contain chemical warfare agents," the Danish Army Operational Command confirmed on Sunday.

Local residents told troops they had recovered about 400 shells in recent years and had thrown them in the Tigris river, AP reported.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3407853.stm

"People with small brains should learn to keep their oversized mouths firmly shut."-jwhop

posted December 21, 2004 07:34 PM            

Now you're questioning the accuracy of the sources from which I posted previous stories.

You accused me of making up stories to post here.

quote:

---

like i said before, i dont just make stuff up on the spot like jwhop does.....

---

Focus hard Petron. I know it's difficult for you but your objective is to prove I make things up to post here without sources to back up my posts.

So far, you're acting like a pubescent teenager and haven't proven a damned thing...except that you've shot your mouth off one too many times.

posted December 21, 2004 07:43 PM              

the jordan bomb plot is irrelevent jwhop
the other two articles you posted are about the same shell jwhop

focus jwhop......then read your own tripe

"We've also found artillery shells filled with Sarin and Mustard gas, enough to kill an estimated 500,000 people.....already loaded"-jwhop

shall i continue to point #2? or do you still want to argue that you didnt make that claim up on the spot?

posted December 21, 2004 08:50 PM              

when i asked you about it you said the figure was "hyperbole to some degree" and said "I heard the 500,000 number somewhere and can't remember who said it but it doesn't seem to have been Limbaugh....to the best of my recollection" (even limbaugh didnt make up such a high figure lol)
then after scouring billions of webpages you sent me to this guy who hadn't a clue either and was just making things up.......

From The Loonatic Left
Satirical Ramblings of Mahatma

This stash is apparently 10 warheads with Sarin or Mustrard Gas. These warheads could kill in excess of 200,000 people based upon the preliminary analysis. Add to this some of the warheads found earlier and we are up to nearly 300,000 people.
http://loonaticleft.typepad.com/loonatic_left/2004/07/wmd_found_in_ir.html

i believe all of these statements are based on what rumsfeld said the day before, simply that dozens of chemical munitions had been "found" "scattered about" iraq....he made no kind of estimate about how many they could kill and even cautioned that only preliminary testing had been done....

all your articles here predate the actual testing and announcement that the shells were no threat.....

then you did the same thing as here, posting multiple articles about the same sarin shell(as if they were all different shells or something lol)

posted December 22, 2004 12:13 AM            

See if you can follow along here Petron.

Sarin has a specific gravity of 1.0877
A lethal dose of Sarin is 70mg http://www.gulfweb.org/bigdoc/report/appgb.html#Composition

One gallon equals 3.7854 liters http://www.onlineconversion.com/

Water weighs 8.33 pounds per gallon http://ga.water.usgs.gov/edu/waterproperties.html

(1) one 155mm artillery shell is capable of holding 5 liters of sarin
"One official told Fox News that a conventional 155-mm shell could hold as much as "two to five" liters of sarin" http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,120137,00.html

Five liters of sarin equals 1.3209 gallons
5.0000 divided by 3.7854=1.3208643 rounds up to 1.3209

Water weighs 8.33 pounds per gallon and has a specific gravity of (1) one
Sarin is heavier with a specific gravity of 1.0877
One gallon of sarin weighs 9.06 pounds
1.0877 times 8.33=9.0605 rounded down

One pound=453,592mg http://www.sengpielaudio.com/ConvWeig.htm

70mg is a fatal dose of sarin http://www.gulfweb.org/bigdoc/report/appgb.html#Composition

There are 6480 fatal doses of sarin in one pound of sarin
453,592 divided by 70=6479.98 rounds up to 6480

(1) one 155mm artillery shell holding 5 liters of sarin contains 58,708 fatal doses.
5 liters of sarin weighs 9.06 pounds
9.06 times 6480 equals 58,708

The story I read and posted referred to something over 2 dozen warheads.
"I think this brings the total warheads to something over two dozen. This stash is apparently 10 warheads with Sarin or Mustrard Gas. These warheads could kill in excess of 200,000 people based upon the preliminary analysis. Add to this some of the warheads found earlier and we are up to nearly 300,000 people." http://loonaticleft.typepad.com/loonatic_left/2004/07/wmd_found_in_ir.html

This was what was known at the time I posted the 500,000 number. If the information is accurate, it's entirely possible there were enough chemical weapons found to kill 500,000 people. In fact, if the information on the numbers of warhead is correct, 500,000 would be a very conservative number.

Feel free to check my math Petron but don't ever accuse me of making up lies to post here. I don't have to make it up.

posted December 22, 2004 12:45 AM              

nice try, and thanx for finally making that calculation ,i could believe if you rationed out the "hypothetical" contents of that 1 shell(the contents were never recovered) and injected it you MIGHT kill those 50,000 lol

you didnt say "if those shells ACTUALLY exist and are ACTUALLY filled with sarin, and IF the chemicals arent defunct and IF you rationed out drops...etc etc....

it doesnt count if you actually believed some idiot like rush limbaugh the sources were available for what was ACTUALLY known when you said that...

you said, "We've also found artillery shells filled with Sarin and Mustard gas, enough to kill an estimated 500,000 people.....already loaded"-jwhop

thats a sourceless statement of several [non]facts-strike one(i'm pitching here)

is that loonatic site really one of your "sources"? *snicker*
btw that piece was written AFTER you made that statement so it couldnt have been your "source" lol

posted December 22, 2004 01:05 AM            

quote:

---

you said, "We've also found artillery shells filled with Sarin and Mustard gas, enough to kill an estimated 500,000 people.....already loaded"-jwhop

---

The story I read and posted referred to something over 2 dozen warheads.
"I think this brings the total warheads to something over two dozen. This stash is apparently 10 warheads with Sarin or Mustrard Gas. These warheads could kill in excess of 200,000 people based upon the preliminary analysis. Add to this some of the warheads found earlier and we are up to nearly 300,000 people." http://loonaticleft.typepad.com/loonatic_left/2004/07/wmd_found_in_ir.html

You're boring me Petron. Is this all you've got in your little tank?

You're not getting it both ways Petron. You're not going to complain about the sources I use and at the same time accuse me of making it up too. In fact Petron, you would do well to dispense with the personal accusations altogether.

You don't have a clue what I know...without resorting to posting someone else's words. I only do that as a courtesy so as to not put my own perspective in stories. But, if you want to engage me with your own personal knowledge, we can do that too. I made that offer to someone else and got a decline.

Sorry you don't seem capable of following along logically.

posted December 22, 2004 01:28 AM              

this guy had no more "information" than you did or rush(which is probably where this guy mahatma heard this lol), thats why i was surprised you multiplied rush limbaughs estimate by like 5X, saying those rockets were loaded lol

i cant believe that, as sanctimonious as you are about sources you would pull this blog up and claim it as a "source" lol

posted December 22, 2004 01:48 AM              

then three weeks later you made that announcement that an "estimated" half million people "couldve been killed"

you had three weeks to actually bother checking some real source to find out testing had come back negative...before you made that statement

i'm sorry you werent following along at the time like i was...

is he the only "source" you use? (besides newsmax and rush?)

posted December 22, 2004 03:41 AM              

"oh yes there was, there were TWENTY THOUSAND people killed in the 911 attacks!!"

and jwhop, out of a sincere desire to get the facts straight, comes along and says, check yer sources and get back to me....
so i scour billions of webpages and find a press release from sept.13 that says "there are possibly 12,000 people buried in the wtc"(they were still estimating that high a deathtoll on sept 13)
and i say well see "they" estimated 12,000 on september 13, thats .6 of 20,000(the same ratio as your 500000 to mahatma's 300000 lol)
so that means i didnt just make up that number right?

then imagine if jwhop had to ask me SEVERAL TIMES to explain myself and i kept insisting that 20,000 is a reasonable number lol...because i "have a source"

posted December 22, 2004 09:35 AM            

Fact is, the info was there at the time I wrote the post and I posted it. So where's the part I just made up.

I've proven the numbers, even beyond the number 300,000, which appeared on the site was possible, not only possible but probably conservative...if the number of warheads was accurate.

24 warheads times 58,708 fatal doses equals 1,408,992, almost 3 times the number 500,000.
The calculations are unassailable. The method of calculation is unassailable. The specific gravity of sarin is unassailable. The fatal dose quantity is unassailable. The only questionable issue is the number of warheads found.

I absolutely refuse to be responsible for the accuracy of what other people say.

posted December 22, 2004 10:39 AM              

but like i told you,ignorance is no excuse for making unsourcable, idiotic claims that could be easily refuted at the time by simply checking the news

its about as credible as trying to post some press release about "danish troops find blister shells" without even checking what the actual results were(see above)
you call it "conservative" when you dont pay attention to the facts and rely on some outdated idiot blog(that you only dug up after i called on you to check your source?????(and then you embellish his idiotic claims too?)

i could find more "sources" than that who say bush planned the 911 attacks along with aliens!!

focus jwhop....you made your claim 3 weeks after those rockets were tested by the pentagon and dismissed as any kind of threat ignorance is no excuse

the day rumsfeld made his statement, all the bloggers and talk show hosts were making ridiculous numbers up of how many people they "could have killed" you beat them all by hundreds of thousands lol

only they all shut up when the results were announced the next day, its not my fault you werent paying attention 3 weeks later when you made your "announcement"

i love how rush nor hannity nor foxnews ever follow up on their own drivel, it leaves their "listeners" hanging around still believing things they said all day just the day before(and in your case for 3 weeks)

posted December 22, 2004 11:33 AM            

I posted an article and extrapolated results based on the article and certain other information in my possession which I've shared with you now.

You really need to pull your head out of your sorry butt Petron. Your denials of the reality of the situation border on deliberate lying.

You have that unfortunate characteristic of the lying left. First they say something which is insupportable and then lie about it or try to change the subject when they're called on it.

I made nothing up. You're the one making it up now. Put up or shut up Petron.

You also need to get over the fact that Bush was reelected and your leftist liar wasn't.

Time to move on Petron. Of course, if it were possible, I'd put you right out front and center for the next four years..but only if you promised to continue your bashing of everything America stands for and continue to align yourself with the lying weenies of the left who couldn't find their $sses with both hands.

I often wonder what kind of feeble mind it takes to buy into the leftist I hate America dogma. The economic and governmental system they admire, collectivism, in it's various forms is corrupt and unworkable. They themselves would be stood against a wall and their brains...what little they have, blown out if they ever opened their mouths in protest.

In fact Petron, I've come to the conclusion the only types who can embrace collectivism are those of low intelligence, a total lack of confidence to make their own way in life, the type who needs someone to tell them what to do, how to do it and when to do it. Someone to think for them because they aren't capable of rational thought themselves. Those slave like purposeless individuals are the only ones fit for life in your little wet dream collectivist society.

People who whine about America as much as you do Petron are typically the least capable of making it in our competitive society. In America, you're actually required to produce something of value to be successful. Of course, that requires getting off their leftist $sses and learning to produce something of value. That of course, leaves the leftists totally out of the picture because they think they're owed something by society. That leftist thought process leads them to think they have the right to enjoy themselves by consuming the wealth others have produced by their own labor or intelligence.

There is nothing of the American spirit in you Petron....or if there is, you're hiding it well. You're out of step with America Petron and America isn't going to march to your leftist tune. Far from it, the pendulum is swinging the opposite direction, as enraging as that is to you.