posted March 25, 2006 01:46 PM              

But Lotus I am not going to argue with you girl....we both remember where that lead to before.....nowhere....

So whatever you want to think....go ahead and think it.....

posted March 25, 2006 02:22 PM              

So basically, I agree with her qualms with the Muslims. I also agree that the Jews have been very successful, and seeming the similarity between the moral codes within Judaism and Islam, one can only conclude that they have behaved in a more civil and educated manner. I am thorougly impressed that, accounting for such a small percent of the world pop, Jews comprise something like 22% of all Nobel Prize winners. wow.

However like I said, and to sum it up, I agree with her basic premise but disagree that this can be generalized to all Muslims and particularly Islam. People don't realize how close Islam is to Judaism and Christianity. All my past Comp Religion professors have said the same--from priests to rabbis and athiests. Any verse that one finds 'strange' in the Quran can be countered by some similar verse in the Bible or Torah. The religion itself is separated completely from this off track extremism that has taken hold of a certain proportion of Muslims. Islam has to do with faith, and submission to Allah. If these people can't submit enough to obey the verse that explicitly forbids taking ones own life or that of an innocent civilian, or even that of a TREE , then can they really claim to be Muslims (the meaning of the word is one that SUBMITS to Allahs will). So in the strictly definitional sense I think she has failed to separate religion from fanaticism. All of this fanaticism is basically dirty politics umbrellaed under Islam.

posted March 25, 2006 04:00 PM              

Sending you lots of Love..

posted March 26, 2006 02:15 AM              

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And would everyone PLEASE stop calling it Islams problem or Islams dirty laundry, its really the cultural problems that are country-specific!

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SGA that's how I see it. Some countries and peoples incorporate their traditional practices and some are strict in what Islamic school of thought they use, and leave little room for other interpretations...which is where the problem lies.

Johnny,

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Um. I was insinuating that a good tactic to use to combat this kind of abuse in these backwards little countries would be the same type of tactic that has proved so effective in combating crimes since the dawn of history. Prison. Execution. Justice

You lock up or kill the violent criminals, you stop them from tormenting their victims. Tell me, Daydreamer, how is this a dream?

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Ok. I agree that's what you do to those who do this kind of abuse. There will always be people regardless of how much "education" they receive who will do backwards things.

But...does locking people up stop them from re-offending once released, or stop others who have yet to offend? Look at America. It is the land of the free, yet no other nation in the world has so many of its citizens locked up in prisons. Is this system working?

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I do love how you consistently try to paint anyone who argues with you as an ethnocentric, brainwashed American. Yes, I've known foreigners. No, I don't watch FOX. Can we get to the point?

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Sorry about my tone if you're not. But I have encountered way too many people for this day and age that are like that.

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Eh... maybe. But child abuse on any level is beyond vile and deserves no mercy. No cultural phenomenon can justify it or make it in any way more tolerable.

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That's how I see it too. So how do you prevent it?

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There are sickos like this all over the world, though their do seem to be an abnormal number of them in these *Arabic* countries.

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How would you know there's an abnormal number of them in "Arabic" countries?

Tink,
On Dr. Wafa Sultan... If she doesn't want to be a Muslim or practice Islam anymore that's her choice. Sounds like it has more to do with resentment towards other so called Muslims who are really Islam hijackers though. And I agree as SGA said, it's problematic to generalize Islam and give it away to extremists who aren't really following the source of Islam.

I had a problem with this part...

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They shot hundreds of bullets into him, shouting, 'God is great!' " she said. "At that point, I lost my trust in their god and began to question all our teachings. It was the turning point of my life, and it has led me to this present point. I had to leave. I had to look for another god."

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I wouldn't let criminals hijack my faith. God is with those who do good, not with people who go against God's laws and kill. So they can say God is great all they want, but God will show them how Great God really is when judgment time comes.

And what SGA said...

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Islam has to do with faith, and submission to Allah. If these people can't submit enough to obey the verse that explicitly forbids taking ones own life or that of an innocent civilian, or even that of a TREE , then can they really claim to be Muslims (the meaning of the word is one that SUBMITS to Allahs will). So in the strictly definitional sense I think she has failed to separate religion from fanaticism. All of this fanaticism is basically dirty politics umbrellaed under Islam.

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I do agree with many of her criticisms. Extremists are not even versed in Islam and the holy books and awfully distort Islam. And I agree that in the end “violent and reactionary Islam” will lose.

posted March 26, 2006 04:50 AM            

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But...does locking people up stop them from re-offending once released, or stop others who have yet to offend? Look at America. It is the land of the free, yet no other nation in the world has so many of its citizens locked up in prisons. Is this system working?

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The reason America has so many people incarcerated is because we go out of our way to arrest and prosecute drug users and other petty criminals. I think the situation is ridiculous, too, if that's what you're getting at.

If I had my way, people like the type described in this story wouldn't have the opportunity to re-offend, though - they'd be dead. In our less than perfect world, however, I'd settle for them serving life sentences.

That'd be my solution, anyway.

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That's how I see it too. So how do you prevent it?

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See above.

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How would you know there's an abnormal number of them in "Arabic" countries?

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Eh... from hearing so many stories like this one, I suppose. I might be mistaken. But c'mon, you're not going to tell me that Arab societies are world-reknown for their beneficient treatment of women, are you?

I mean... eek! I'm no big fan of America, but... eek!