posted November 23, 2006 09:30 AM              

as far as perceptions go ,
lebanon: i think ,the country has one of the most beautiful women on earth ( i count indian women to be equivalent) infact all most all the women there seem to be naturally beautiful .
apart from it , i see a lot of similarities between india and leabanon , in the sense that its one of the few secular and with potential to be truly democratic( i know , some people might not agree ) society in the mostly conservative middle east .
hats off to the people who have made this happen cos i know how difficult it is to create and maintain such a society .( see the difference between india and pakistan in that realtion , even though we are basically the same people )
one big loophole , centre of the power is in the hands of illeligible people .

syria: again, this is one country which has created its identity out of hatred for israel ( same as does pak in regard to india ) rather than creating its independent identity .
yeah , but i am not sure if people are to be blamed for the mess . i am not much aware of the political system of the country .

posted November 23, 2006 05:12 PM              

how do you feel that the events there are the most significant to the future?

Hey cancerrg,

what do you mean by this?

quote:

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a great trump card for us against pak.

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posted November 24, 2006 01:35 AM              

No offense.

posted November 24, 2006 09:58 AM              

:::what do you mean by this?

quote:
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a great trump card for us against pak.
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, i always feel , if used properly iran can always be used to engage pak .
again , this is one country which bcos of its geogrqaphical location is infact very important in world politics , which is very much true in our case too .
even for the afgahn part ,iran is important .

ah , i dont know much about persian history but ofcourse , i can suggest a lot on indian history .
tell me your area of interest .

by the way do u know about parsis , ever heard of them?

posted November 24, 2006 11:47 AM              

Myself I think that largely the problems in the Middle East have less to do with the people themselves...because I believe that all people in the world only want to live their lives in peace and without interference from the government...than it has to do with theocratical type governments. Any time, all throughout world history, there has been a union with religion and government there has been oppression, unrest and total upheaval. The mixture is lethal for both government and religion. Which is why in the U.S. we do not like the interference of the Religious Right who would like to see a theocratical government in the U.S.

The thing about democracy is that you cannot establish a democracy without first having the foundation for it and a leader who can lead the people into democracy. Which is what I think made the big difference between India and Pakistan. That is also why I think we are not being too sucessful in Iraq. There was never a foundation for democracy in Iraq. All we did in Iraq is create a civil war between religious factions. Instead of just going in and invading a country I think you need to spend decades patiently working to help establish a foudation for a democracy.

I think for that reason cancerrg is right about Lebanon, there is a foundation for democracy in Lebanon because for years it has been the one Middle Eastern nation that has openly allowed all religions to practice in that country, including Christians. And there has been less of mixture between religion and government. Lebanon, according to all I have read, has the largest Christian population of any Middle Eastern nation which is demonstrative of a tolerant, less oppressive nation.

posted November 29, 2006 11:23 AM              

quote:

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lebanon: i think ,the country has one of the most beautiful women on earth ( i count indian women to be equivalent) infact all most all the women there seem to be naturally beautiful .
apart from it , i see a lot of similarities between india and leabanon , in the sense that its one of the few secular and with potential to be truly democratic( i know , some people might not agree ) society in the mostly conservative middle east .
hats off to the people who have made this happen cos i know how difficult it is to create and maintain such a society

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Actually Lebanese women are huge on plastic surgery. A Lebanese plastic surgeon estimates that one in every three noses you see in the streets of Beirut is 'fake'.

I dont think Lebanon is secular. It is a liberal nation with a mix of shia, sunni and druze etc. but each sect is very conservative in its OWN way, they realized that to get Syrian presence out of Lebanon they have to put religion aside. The reason Lebanon will never be stable at least for the upcoming twenty years is because people are too passionate about religion and it will keep getting in the way of which religious denomination should have control of presidency or vp.

quote:

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syria: again, this is one country which has created its identity out of hatred for israel ( same as does pak in regard to india ) rather than creating its independent identity

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Syria has its own very unique identity. When the Hebrew or Jewish people were still developing their own identity several thousands of years ago, Assyrians and Ammonites (modern day Syrians and Jordanians respectively)already existed--look to the Bible and historical records for proof on that. They have a very distinct culture, their own brand of shiism, and are extremely nationalistic. Almost all Arabs I know would unanimously agree that Syrians are anti Israel because they are pro Arab nationalism and this extreme makes them anti-Zionism (the latter being a form of Jewish nationalism). its not out of 'hatred' for Israel, its out of 'love' or obsession for their OWN roots. I would say thats a very inaccurate statement of yours. Even before the existence of Israel Syria was very nationalistic. The current mentality stems from when Egypt and Syria were almost one nation (they pledged to be part of an Arab Union together) during Gamal Abdel Nassers time in Egypt (rise of Arab nationalism before the second Arab Israeli war). Right now Syria is somewhat like Libya--no foreign or western products/influences allowed in the country, but they are not as extremist as Gaddafi neither are they Communist/Socialist. Your analysis is very shallow at best. And I think re: your posting about me being anti-india, your attitude that Pakistan has developed into an anti-India country only without any roots of its own seems pretty presumptuous and callous, and anti Pakistan itself. Although I disagree that Pakistan was founded on the basis of 'religion' only many Pakistanis take pride in their roots of Islam and the country being founded on Islam--so its not anti India, it was anti-oppression or the ability to not be able to freely practice religion. And if you knew ANYTHING about Pakistan you would know what Im talking about.

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i always feel , if used properly iran can always be used to engage pak .

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Iran is so nationalistically Shia (and at this moment pro Islam etc.) that I dont think it would collaborate with India, ever, unless either Pakistan declared open war on Iran (haha thats never going to happen) or the current govt is overthrown by a secular state like Shah's.

I do know about parsis, which you mention. Iranis in general trace their roots to Indians but not in the way that Indians would think...Farsi is based on a fusion of Sanskrit, Latin, Arabic etc, but Iranis ally themselves more closely with Indo-European roots (they like to call themselves the European Aryans). Its a 'race superiority' thing, just like the Turkish are dying to get into the EU, the Iranis basically have the same 'we want to be European' complex and from as early as 2000 years ago distanced themselves from India to try and create their own 'counter' empire.

posted November 29, 2006 11:50 AM            

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Because I believe the Jewish race is the foundation race of the planet. And because of that, they posess unique energy and therefore power( spiritually). THis is why others want to destroy the race. To take their power. If the Jews fine peace, and make no mistake about it I know they will , then all of us will find peace.

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posted November 29, 2006 11:52 AM              

BTW... doesn't racist mean superiority over others. I said the jewish people have unique (spiritual) powers. I did not say they are superior. My gosh look at all the problems they have had to bear over time as far back as ever....

I have a lot of respect for jewish people, and i have come to respect the chinese and the mexicans..... and so on.

posted November 29, 2006 12:03 PM              

God bestowed upon all humans the same gifts..
we are all equal..ALL knowledge is within..
Our BirthRight
from MOther and Father...

posted November 29, 2006 01:02 PM              

quote:

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Because I believe the Jewish race is the foundation race of the planet. And because of that, they posess unique energy and therefore power( spiritually). THis is why others want to destroy the race. To take their power. If the Jews fine peace, and make no mistake about it I know they will , then all of us will find peace.

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I dont even know where to begin with that...
1. What makes them the foundation race? The first human remains have been found in Africa....

2. What is their spiritual power ? Most Jewish people will say that their culture encourages learning and questioning (a result of the way that the Talmud was written), or that they have an intellectual power and a perseverent spirit (at least accord to the two diff Rabbis which I had for Jewish studies the last two years). If you go off of the Tora as well, most Jewish people will admit that when they had the upper hand, they weren't exactly 100% fair with others either (Heshbon? for example); however, they were unfairly prosecuted.

It is great to respect all ethnicities and religions (as anyone should), but your last statement that you have 'come to' respect the chinese and the mexicans worries me a little bit.... was there a time when you were 'not respectful' of them? (as that implies...)

posted November 29, 2006 03:32 PM              

Funny that you admire the Jewish spirit of questioning, and their intellectual achievement stemming largely fromt his intellectual curiosity, yet you ask others to not question your beliefs.

What you have said is deep and over peoples heads? Everyone thinks theyre DEEP. I am deconstructing your argument. The very fact that I am deconstructing it shows that I can and do grasp your statement. Do you have an answer to my deconstruction? Or are you just going to shut out all questioning because its something you cannot intellectually reply to?

Maybe what youre saying is so deep that its going over your own head too, because you don't even know how to defend it.

But its certainly not going over MY head. I understand perfectly what you said.

If you didn't say it to defend it, why say it? Do you believe in things that are indefensible? Then maybe you should join the likes of other people who believe on whims, and refuse to logically illustrate WHY they believe what they do--people like Charles Manson and Hitler.

I appreciate your sentiment of sending positive energy. But as has been stated on the board many times previously, positive energy and thoughts are nothing without the complementary actions. And actions of aggression and oppression will not solve anything--in fact actions in which justice is served to all can only be a lasting solution. I am asking you what is your proposed solution to the problem in the middle east? Because if the entire nation of America sits and sends positive light to Israel and Palestine, no progress will be made if suicide bombings and Israeli military aggression in Gaza continue.

Is there a concrete, logical thing you can say to defend ANY of your arguments? Any ONE thing?

posted November 29, 2006 04:04 PM              

SGA...you make so much sense

posted November 29, 2006 09:27 PM            

quote:

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I realize what I have said is deep and over most's heads but I didn't say it to defend it

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Say what???

quote:

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It is great to respect all ethnicities and religions (as anyone should), but your last statement that you have 'come to' respect the chinese and the mexicans worries me a little bit.... was there a time when you were 'not respectful' of them? (as that implies...)

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Thats something I would like to know now too.

posted November 30, 2006 08:28 AM              

Most of the times when I do come into GU its to plant seeds, thats it.
Why does a statment in favor of a certain race make people feel that I have taken away something from others??? This is human dysfuction in its most basic form and Im so far past that I can't and won't be dragged back into it. My energies are far better spent in other ways, one in positive thoughts and affirmations for peace on this planet. Everyting else is just getting caught up in the shadows.

It is imperative that we come together to shine light where there is trouble in the world. We are living in very significant times and many of us here are meant to be positive, not argue the heck out of each other. If we can find it in our hearts to be empathetic and compassionate towards people we didn't ever think about before much less care about....thats change...thats evolvement...thats what i want.

posted November 30, 2006 12:32 PM              

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Maybe , but i think i loved almost all of them .

posted November 30, 2006 02:09 PM            

Planting seeds can require tending, especially in harsh environments.

Anyone who believes they know something of some special spiritual import here, but won't in any way give justification for their reasoning can expect to be summarily dismissed. Ask Lotus. That's just the way it is in GU. (People here try their darndest to be realistic, and practicality demands logical explanation.)

If you are interested in theorizing about Judaism's place in the scheme of the Universe, I'd suggest taking it to Universal Codes where religious topics are often discussed.